Bulgarian uprising

[Meneth]

Edit: The Bulgarian Uprising has been removed from the Compilation, but will be kept in the Fixes as most people are in favor of keeping it.

Pros:

• Helps keep the Romans in check
• Provides challenge for someone playing as the Romans
• Adds some historical flavor

Cons:

• Slows down turn time a little
• Can excessively harm the AI
• Often causes CTDs to creep back into the game
• Can overwhelm an inexperienced player
• Impossible to prepare for if you don't know about it, or is the AI
• Interferes with building empire, as it takes resources to combat.

[SirRobin]

Keep it - I didn't even know it existed But maybe add a warning some years before?

[Neptune7]

Cons
Interferes with building empire, as it takes resources to combat.

[Meneth]

Keep it - I didn't even know it existed But maybe add a warning some years before?

Maybe I'll add that. But then again, the Romans didn't really see the rebellion coming.

Cons
Interferes with building empire, as it takes resources to combat.

Added to OP.

[Ottheinrich]

Keep it. The Romans are steamrolling Hungary, the Cumans and the Middle East in my Early Campaign and I do hope that the uprising will slow them down a bit (I am somwhere in the late 1130's right now with 2tpy)

[Nerva]

For me its fine to keep it, at least in my current campaign with the norse the power in the balkans is the egyptians not the romans, and I'm sure that this will al least stop them some turns...
Nerva

[Medkirtys]

It's easy to destroy them as player, they come in numbers, but don't have quality. At all. (1 unit of Serb knight's ain't enough)

[Largon]

Wow, I even didn't know that there are Bulgarians in game

[k/t]

There aren't, they're just rebels. It's strange that you have the uprising in 1150, since in RR/RC it happens in 1175. They're not particularly hard to crush, and the Byzantines certainly need a handicap. I've seen them lose at least Adrianople on occasion, but they always retake it. The Turks and the Hungarians need all the help they can get.

[Rokiniz]

let it be

[Gogolometro]

Make bulgarians stronger and add cumans in their army. Maybe more troops and stronger.
I want to point this like sticky, hungarians never ruled Sofia!

[Ichon]

Keep the event but why move it to 1140? There was general unrest in Bulgaria due to high taxation by Romans but most of the major battles were after 1175. The matter wasn't settled until 1202 though Byzantines planned for the situation to be temporary the Crusaders sack of Constantinople and formation of Latin Kingdoms ended any attempts are reconquest while Bulgaria fought the various Latin Kingdoms and was independent until 1396 when the Ottomans decisively defeated them.

If anything the event should spawn more Bulgarian armies... it is pretty easy to defeat as a player with the exceptional Byzantine cavalry you could defeat most of the rebel stacks with an army of just 2 generals. Also the Byzantine AI is quite strong in early era, something to slow it down is quite helpful.

[Meneth]

Keep the event but why move it to 1140? There was general unrest in Bulgaria to to high taxation by Romans but most of the major battles were after 1175. The matter wasn't settled until 1202 though Byzantines planned for the situation to be temporary the Crusaders sack of Constantinople and formation of Latin Kingdoms ended any attempts are reconquest while Bulgaria fought the various Latin Kingdoms and was independent until 1396 when the Ottomans decisively defeated them.

If anything the event should spawn more Bulgarian armies... it is pretty easy to defeat as a player with the exceptional Byzantine cavalry you could defeat most of the rebel stacks with an army of just 2 generals. Also the Byzantine AI is quite strong in early era, something to slow it down is quite helpful.

This is why:
"The Uprising of Peter Delyan (Bulgarian: Въстанието на Петър Делян, Greek: Επανάσταση του Πέτρου Δελεάνου), which took place in 1040-1041, was a major Bulgarian rebellion against the Byzantine Empire."
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uprising_of_Petar_Delyan

[Ichon]

This is why:
"The Uprising of Peter Delyan (Bulgarian: Въстанието на Петър Делян, Greek: Επανάσταση του Πέτρου Δελεάνου), which took place in 1040-1041, was a major Bulgarian rebellion against the Byzantine Empire."
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uprising_of_Petar_Delyan

Right... 1040 not 1140.

[Gogolometro]

Although Ivan Asen played the more active part in the operations against the Byzantines, his older brother Theodore was proclaimed Emperor of the Bulgarians under the name Peter IV (Petăr IV). An early assault on the old capital Preslav failed, and the probable center of the revolt, Tărnovo, became the capital of the Second Bulgarian Empire. During 1185 and 1186 the Bulgarians took over most of Moesia and raided across the Balkan mountains into Thrace.
In the summer of 1186 Isaac II Angelos marched with a large army against the Bulgarians, and penetrated into Moesia. While Peter IV showed himself ready to negotiate with the Byzantine emperor, Ivan Asen fled across the Danube and raised a strong force of Cumans, with whom he returned to relieve his brother. Isaac II had already left for Constantinople, contenting himself with Peter IV's promises for obedience. With his new force, Ivan Asen proceeded to raid Thrace again, skillfully avoiding pitched battles against superior Byzantine armies.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan_Asen_I_of_Bulgaria


So why not 1186?


Plus remember well, this was NOT a bulgarian uprising. This is a very nationalistic point of view. Was a vlacho-bulgarian revolt. Vlachs who live now there, in Macedonia and Greece are latinisated population, not slavs, living like mountain people and shepherds, with very high taste for war.

[Meneth]

Guess I misread, then.
Anyway, then the event it's trying to reflect would be the second Bulgarian uprising, which started in 1185.
However, Skopje, Adrianople, and Sofia were taken in 1193.

[Ichon]

Guess I misread, then.
Anyway, then the event it's trying to reflect would be the second Bulgarian uprising, which started in 1185.
However, Skopje, Adrianople, and Sofia were taken in 1193.

Yeah- anytime between 1175 and 1190 would probably be ok for the event to fire since it wasn't a spontaneous uprising. It was started by overtaxed peasants but when Byzantine response was weak many Bulgarian nobles who had been given appointments as Archons, or other Byzantine titles decided to support it and that is when some of the major cities fell.

[Meneth]

Yeah- anytime between 1175 and 1190 would probably be ok for the event to fire since it wasn't a spontaneous uprising. It was started by overtaxed peasants but when Byzantine response was weak many Bulgarian nobles who had been given appointments as Archons, or other Byzantine titles decided to support it and that is when some of the major cities fell.

But by that time, it'd be too weak to be more than a momentary distraction for a player. The AI however, would likely lose all three settlements due to not reinforcing the center of the empire.

And so late into the game, it'd do little to slow down the growth of the Romans (if they're expanding, that is)

Edit: @Gogolometro: they only took the three settlements they attack in-game in 1193.

[Gogolometro]

Maybe a relation the bulgarian uprising event can be conected with Latin Empire submod. Is a nice point for this game.

[Ichon]

But by that time, it'd be too weak to be more than a momentary distraction for a player. The AI however, would likely lose all three settlements due to not reinforcing the center of the empire.

And so late into the game, it'd do little to slow down the growth of the Romans (if they're expanding, that is)

Edit: @Gogolometro: they only took the three settlements they attack in-game in 1193.

Well the uprising is not going to be a problem for the player much anytime after the first 25 turns or less if they know it is coming unless it is truly huge which would be a bit much for the AI. Some stronger rebel armies would make a bigger difference though and require the player or AI to at least put 1 or 2 nearly full armies in the area. The exact date is flexible I'd guess since spawning rebel armies the year cities were captured is a bit late- they should spawn 3-4 years ahead to have time to move or siege etc.