Gay Rights...nonsense

[Bond]

First off, I have nothing against gay people. To each their own, what ever floats your boat, etc.

I think the entire notion of "gay rights" is absurd when you look at the issue.

Being gay is arguably a choice, but we can all agree it is nothing more than a sexual preference. It's not like they are an ethnic group of people who is being persecuted because their skin is a different color.

Governments have placed laws regarding sexual preferences (example: necrophilia), and we all agree that they have the right to. Now...are gays entitled to equal rights (marriage, military service, etc.)? I believe so.

A sexual preference shouldn't be something that disqualifies you from military service. There are probably people in the military who are into dominatrix, but being so does not disqualify you from service.

Marriage...is a whole 'nother beast that I do not have any beliefs on, so I won't argue for or against it(mainly because I am not religious and marriages deal with the churches).

So the issue comes down to this: Should people be entitled to equal rights regardless of sexual preference? And right now it seems like the answer is maybe (at least in the US).

[Col. Tartleton]

Yeah, I could argue that while Gay men can't marry other men, neither can straight men. Its actually totally equal. Fair argument.

[Lord Zhang Ku]

gay people should be able to marry each other. And no, its not a choice. Its a biological, genetic thing that makes them the way they are, just like if someone is born with green eyes, or blonde hair. To not give them equal rights because of their sexuality alone is absolutely rediculous. Peolple should be able to marry whichever human being they please, be it they both be gay or both be straight. what I'm saying is that gay men and women should be allowed to marry and serve in the military. There will always be people wo argue that those who are different should be given the short stick when it comes to rights. no matter what, every human being should have equal rights.

[motiv-8]

Yeah, I could argue that while Gay men can't marry other men, neither can straight men. Its actually totally equal. Fair argument.

What? No, that's not equal at all. Straight men dont' WANT to marry other men, Gay men do. Because that's what they are biologically and physiologically attracted to.

"Totally equal" would mean straight men couldn't marry women.

[Himster]

"Totally equal" would mean straight men couldn't marry women.

That's just insane. Real equality would mean all adults can marry their fellow adult with whom they are in love with.

[Strelok]

Should people be entitled to equal rights regardless of sexual preference?

Yes. Also, I believe the concept of marriage has evolved past just being a religious tradition. It's both a civil and religious manner today. I think the state should get out of marriages all together and people should be allowed to marry another adult human being regardless of the context of it and as long as it is voluntary, and regardless if it is in a private religious context or not.. EDIT: Ignore the crossed out part as this was a misrepresentation.

Being gay is arguably a choice, but we can all agree it is nothing more than a sexual preference. It's not like they are an ethnic group of people who is being persecuted because their skin is a different color.

Yeah they're not an ethnic group of course, but are still discriminated because of their sexual orientation, which I perceive to be an immorality that should not be put up with. I'd like to meet a person who is able to choose their sexuality. That would be an interesting ability to have. Otherwise, there are various factors that have nothing to do with being a conscious choice. There is arguable evidence for multiple theories including: being determined or influenced prior to birth, and also being affected by various environmental/social factors.

[Squiggle]

Yes. Also, I believe the concept of marriage has evolved past just being a religious tradition. It's both a civil and religious manner today. I think the state should get out of marriages all together and people should be allowed to marry another adult human being regardless of the context of it and as long as it is voluntary, and regardless if it is in a private religious context or not.

Thats ludicrous. If marriages ceased to be a contractual union- and thus necessary that the Government is involved- it would just be a meaningless, anarchistic title. That or people would make unique independent marriage contracts amongst one another and divorce would be endlessly convoluted, we would have no precedents on what, if anything, was owed to a spouse in divorce, how Children should be split up...inheritances, etc.

Theres a lot of legal issues involved in just popping the state out of marriage. The entire notion of it would radically change, it wouldnt even be remotely recognizable to its current form. And to what end? Just so we can parade around with the knowledge we shrunk the Government a teeny tiny incy bit more?

[Strelok]

That or people would make unique independent marriage contracts amongst one another and divorce would be endlessly convoluted...

This is a potential consequence I know of.

..we would have no precedents on what, if anything, was owed to a spouse in divorce, how Children should be split up...inheritances, etc.

Solutions to those can arise without the need for the a declaration by the state.

[motiv-8]

That's just insane. Real equality would mean all adults can marry their fellow adult with whom they are in love with.

That's exactly what I'm advocating. You misunderstood the intent of my statement, which was to criticize the characterization of "equality" the post I quoted made. I was using the internal logic of his own post, not my own.

[LSJ]

When I think of gay rights, I think of the right to have sex with someone regardless of sex, the right to not be discriminated against for having sex with that person, and the right to attain the same legal status as partners as a hetersexual couple can. That is what the 'gay rights' movement is about.

[Irishpsycho]

As I said in the last homosexuality thread I believe that homosexuality is neither biological nor a choice, but a form of paraphylia linked to being imprinted in a specific way during early adolesence. We are not born gay or strait, but our bodies are biologicaly built to be strait. Nobody is sexual until they begin their sexual awakening in late childhood, but up until that point everybody is fair geme. Most become ordinary strait men and women, but a few will have strange sexual preferences that do not leave room for natural reproduction.

Gay marriage, the government should only be able to give civil unions (though they could call them civil marriages if they prefer), but these should be available to gays and straits alike. If someone wants a religious marriage they should just find a religion that will marry them (such as the Anglican Church) and stop telling the religions who won't marry them that they're wrong. If gays get the right to marry, religions should ge t the right not to.

Gay adoption, for (it's about the kids and finding someone to feed and love them, not who does the feeding and loving).

Artificial insemination, against (people make lifestyle choices and shouldn't need society to help them make up for them, besides, there are plenty of homeless children who still need parents).

And in case anyone wonders I'm a conservative Catholic who simply doesn't believe in forcing others to be conservative (or Catholic for that matter).

[Col. Tartleton]

What? No, that's not equal at all. Straight men dont' WANT to marry other men, Gay men do. Because that's what they are biologically and physiologically attracted to.

"Totally equal" would mean straight men couldn't marry women.

I think you're missing the point I'm highlighting.

[The spartan]

I think you're missing the point I'm highlighting.

That virtual abridgment is ok?

[MAXlMUS]

i think they should set up special areas for the gay people to live happily among their own kind

[Himster]

i think they should set up special areas for the gay people to live happily among their own kind

They also have trouble concentrating in schools. I think it'd be fun, during the summer to set up special camps tailored for the gays' special concentrating needs.

Now what should we call these camps?

[Steforian]

They also have trouble concentrating in schools. I think it'd be fun, during the summer to set up special camps tailored for the gays' special concentrating needs.

Now what should we call these camps?

Lmao, just what i was thinking.

[Theseus1234]

Being gay is arguably a choice, but we can all agree it is nothing more than a sexual preference. It's not like they are an ethnic group of people who is being persecuted because their skin is a different color.

No, it's really not. You can choose to express or suppress it, but it's always there. The actual issue is akin to not letting to let a black woman and black man marry since they are of a different race, yet they can do everything else whites can.

i think they should set up special areas for the gay people to live happily among their own kind

Sounds like a good solution which would end the issue. So I guess that makes it a...final solution?

[Sphere]

Even if it is a choice, why is it okay to deny them rights that are granted to others?

I mean religion is certainly just a choice, so would it be okay then to say only protestants get to marry in the US? Everyone who doesn't choose to become protestant cannot get married? What logical distinction can you draw between this and banning gay marriage? So much personal preference goes into choosing a spouse, why must gender be excluded?

Really I am failing to see how this is anything beyond you just don't like the idea of it. To that I say tough, I don't have much time for people who would deny others the rights they themselves enjoy simply because they don't like the same things you do. Its a petty attitude that doesn't have a place in civil society.

[KaerMorhen]

Modern world is pretty simple - if you in a need of special treatment and rights, you have just to express yourself as freak or weird of some sort and you'll get it - otherwise you begin with rantings, parades and bollocks about equality, then you'll get even more.

[ivan_the_terrible]

Personally I don't really care how people lead their private lives.

Though it does annoy me when 'gay rights' are compared to serious struggles for equality, like the black Civil Rights movement.