http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051219/...NlYwMlJVRPUCUl
What do you think? I think it was a great speech. He said a lot of things that needed to be said.
Primicerius
Bush Asserts U.S. Is Winning Iraq War
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051219/...NlYwMlJVRPUCUl
What do you think? I think it was a great speech. He said a lot of things that needed to be said.
I still can't watch him make a speech without laughing so i didn't really hear what he said.Originally Posted by Hub'ite
Bow to ME!!!
So he admits declaring war was a mistake. When I make a mistake I generally apologise and make up for what I've done. You think the US is going to apologise to Saddam?As he has in the past three weeks, Bush acknowledged that missteps and setbacks and took responsibility for ordering the invasion based on faulty intelligence.
But, he said, "Not only can we win the war in Iraq — we are winning the war in Iraq."
"oops, sorry mate, you didn't have any WMD's or links with terrorism after all, but we're still going to occupy your country, impose western values on your society, let the 3 main ethnic groups battle it out for control after we leave, allow religeous fundamentalism to exert an influence in your country where there was none previously, and ensure that our companies gain maximum profits from rebuilding work anyway. We're also sorry for reducing your country from one of the most socially advanced countries of the middle east to a patchwork of warring tribal regions similar to Afghanistan, for giving you the chemical weapons tech you used so well after we trained you, for using you to further our interests in Iran then abandoning you when it suited our purposes and for destabilising the entire region, but at least your people are free to express themselves now without fear of being tortured or killed by their new government excpet when we aren't watching, and you had a chance to have a photo opportunity with Donald a few years back...
Exotic Slave - Spook 153, Barbarian Turncoat - Drugpimp, Catamite - Invoker 47
Drunken Uncle - Wicked, Priest of Jupiter - Guderian
Under the patronage of El-Sib Why? ...... Because Siblesz sent meProud member of the Australian-New Zealand Beer Appreciation Society (ANZBAS?)
Primicerius
Bush admitted that and now is trying to fix it. Why should we aplogize to Saddam? Ok so he didn't have WMD's. But we did find mass graves. But as long as he didn't have WMD's then he should have been left alone. Right?
Western values are the best. And you think that we won't head right back into Iraq if there's a civil war? We wouldn't waste all we did to just let it fall to pieces.
A lot of countries have done stuff like this not just evil America.
Go tell that to the 10 million Iraqis that voted.
Wait a second, did you just say that?
"Western values are the best"? Sorry, just because you live one way doesn't make it the best, different people have different values and different values are the "best" for them, obviously.
And as an aside, liberals are in general smarter than conservatives, your signature is very flawed.
Yeah it is flawed, if it were true Bush would be a communist.Wait a second, did you just say that?
"Western values are the best"? Sorry, just because you live one way doesn't make it the best, different people have different values and different values are the "best" for them, obviously.
And as an aside, liberals are in general smarter than conservatives, your signature is very flawed.
Vicarius Provinciae
So I take it AP that you have no ideas that you think are worthy of emualation? It must be very sad to be you - not having an idea worth sharing or a thought worth speaking.Wait a second, did you just say that?
"Western values are the best"? Sorry, just because you live one way doesn't make it the best, different people have different values and different values are the "best" for them, obviously.
Of course Western ideas are best. Otherwise there would not be a West. There would be no Magna Carta, no Declaration of Independence, no Pizza Hut.
As a teenager, I was taken to various houses and flats above takeaways in the north of England, to be beaten, tortured and raped over 100 times. I was called a “white slag” and “white ****” as they beat me.
-Ella Hill
And what's a nicer way of sharing your idea than invading their country and overthrowing their government?
Hmm, did I say that? No. I said that it is stupid to say that western values are the best, what basis is there for such a claim? Your argument seems to be that western civilization has survived so that makes it so. Well, if you didn't know, civilizations in tons of places have survived for thousands of years, without western values. Ever heard of China? Persia? Arabia? Egypt? India? Guess not.So I take it AP that you have no ideas that you think are worthy of emualation? It must be very sad to be you - not having an idea worth sharing or a thought worth speaking.
Of course Western ideas are best. Otherwise there would not be a West. There would be no Magna Carta, no Declaration of Independence, no Pizza Hut.
Indefinitely Banned
Well in this case BY FAR western values are surperior to the Brutal Dictatorship that was in Iraq. And if we just pick up and leave like anti war idiots want the Brutal Dictatorship that will be in Iraq again.Wait a second, did you just say that?
"Western values are the best"? Sorry, just because you live one way doesn't make it the best, different people have different values and different values are the "best" for them, obviously.
And as an aside, liberals are in general smarter than conservatives, your signature is very flawed.
Oh and I think he said it best
Ahh, my liberal friends who would dismerch our efforts and demean our troops as 'broken' or 'unable to win' just love when I whip this one out.
Are we winning? Over ten million Iraqis voted YES!
I don't see Iraqis walking around thanking Chirac, or Shroeder, or John Kerry. I see them thanking "George Bush". We are winning and will win --and no amount of pessimism or attempts to dismiss our troops will change that fact.
And guees what you just did? You made unsupported claims that there is a great chance Iraq will not fall apart. Not only are you being hypocritcal where did you even hear this? From a nine year old? Iraq is not strong enough yet to hold it's self together and ANY sane person knows that. So first off stop being hypcritical and second off tell us where you got your genuis Opinion.Why do you make stupid, unsuported claims like that? You think your proving a point when you say this and that is going to happen, when there is a strong chance that its not. Well, your not. Your just proving your ignorance, ill-will, and general discontent for the subjetct that explains your position
Last edited by Scar Face; December 19, 2005 at 07:52 PM.
Bow to ME!!!
as opposed to the mess there now and the probable future of Iraq? yes. Far worse dictators are left alone by the US, if he was worth removing, all of them are. Time for the US to declare war on the majority of Africa, the ME and half of East Asia then.
lol. Once you leave with a resounding 'mission accomplished' you won't go back. It cost too much the first time aorund. And to say that 'western values are the best' is showing complete ignorance of the world around you. There are elements in all cultures that are good and bad. Western cuture is the result of western history and is suited to our way oif life. The East is a different place with a different history and a different way of doing things. You and I have no right to say that they are better or worse, especially if we judge them according to our own standards.Western values are the best. And you think that we won't head right back into Iraq if there's a civil war? We wouldn't waste all we did to just let it fall to pieces.
so? the thread is about Iraq and the USA lot of countries have done stuff like this not just evil America.
and tell it to the Iraqis that were found recently who had been imprisoned and tortured by the new government. The new govt. is no different from the old except that they are more circumspect about what they are doing. Once the US moves out it'll be back to the old ways of doing things with a new group in power that is backed by the US. They'll take their cue from the support the US gives to the Saudis despite their terrible human rights record.Go tell that to the 10 million Iraqis that voted.
Exotic Slave - Spook 153, Barbarian Turncoat - Drugpimp, Catamite - Invoker 47
Drunken Uncle - Wicked, Priest of Jupiter - Guderian
Under the patronage of El-Sib Why? ...... Because Siblesz sent meProud member of the Australian-New Zealand Beer Appreciation Society (ANZBAS?)
Citizen
Fine who would you like to start with? Ive said it many times before. Lets clean up the world now while we still can or just sit back and wait for it. Ill probably be long gone by then so have fun people. The free nations of the world should form a real United nations. And dont tell me Western values arent better than what most of the world has now. Again if you dont want to do that you can just wait until these guys get nukes and hope for the best.opposed to the mess there now and the probable future of Iraq? yes. Far worse dictators are left alone by the US, if he was worth removing, all of them are. Time for the US to declare war on the majority of Africa, the ME and half of East Asia then.
Even if its true its nothing compared to what Saddam did. At least their headed in the right direction.The pele certainly seem to feel free judging by the number who voted. And I believe it was 15 million.and tell it to the Iraqis that were found recently who had been imprisoned and tortured by the new government.
Again since the war was illegal and we went in with bad and fraudulent evidence we should give poor Saddam his country back. His lawyers will certainly use this argument.
I have nothing against the womens movement. Especially when Im walking behind it.
Bow to ME!!!
Its odd but I find myself swinging between the 2 ideas myself. The thought of just going medieval on the world can be seductive. I'd probably start with Zimbabwe/Rhodesia. Being passive is not really an option, but just stomping in 'boots and all' creates a human, economic and political disaster for both sides. I'd favour targeted assasinations and corruption as the way to go. Western values are only better because they work for us, but look at all the crap that politicians get away with and all the underhanded manipulation that goes on. At least in ME governments they are more direct and open about crushing the will to resist.
You can't tell me that the values that asiatic nations have with regard to family are bad. In the east they rely on the extended family, in the west people rely on social security and families are not as strongly tied together.
How many died as a result of sanctionsEven if its true its nothing compared to what Saddam did. At least their headed in the right direction.The pele certainly seem to feel free judging by the number who voted. And I believe it was 15 million.
How many died in the invasion
How many died because of the insurgency
How many will die in the struggle for power or independence that will follow the departure of the US
Judging by the voter turnout during Saddam's time where he won 100% of the vote you could say the same. I very much doubt the accuracy of the numbers of if it is a true indication of how free people feel. I'll wait until the first few political leaders in the new regime get prosecuted for corruption or somesuch before I think the people are led by people with an interest in their freedom.
I would use it by saying that an Iraq ruled by Saddam, while not ideal, was better than what it is now and what it will be in the near future - choosing the lesser of 2 evils:Again since the war was illegal and we went in with bad and fraudulent evidence we should give poor Saddam his country back. His lawyers will certainly use this argument.
Saddam, stability, toture and imprisonment for opposing him and the odd massacre vs social breakdown, destroyed infrastructure, higher mortality rate due to bombs, disease etc, civil war, the fracturing of the state, the growth of Iranian power, and the increasing militancy of Islam.
If you were going to go into Iraq with the idea of making it peaceful and 'free' you should have gone in prepared to crush all possible opposition rather than the pussyfooting around that is going on now.
Exotic Slave - Spook 153, Barbarian Turncoat - Drugpimp, Catamite - Invoker 47
Drunken Uncle - Wicked, Priest of Jupiter - Guderian
Under the patronage of El-Sib Why? ...... Because Siblesz sent meProud member of the Australian-New Zealand Beer Appreciation Society (ANZBAS?)
Saviors of the Japanese
Prove that Liberals are smarter than consevatives...
“The nation that will insist upon drawing a broad line of demarcation between the fighting man and the thinking man is liable to find its fighting done by fools and its thinking by cowards.”
—Sir William Francis Butler
I can't, but Farnan, you know that the average democratic voter is smarter than the average republican voter. You know, those "intellectual elitists," it isn't necessarily true on here, but throughout america it is, whether I can prove it at this moment or not (proof certainly exists, I just don't know where to look).
For one example though, look at the education quality and college educated numbers of people in the "red" states and in the "blue" states.
Liberals live closer to big buildings.
Civis
Not all of us liberals live near big buildings, I live in the bootheel of MO.
Saviors of the Japanese
I've seen a lot of stupid democrats, like a lot of stupid republicans. Academia are mostly Liberal, but Doctors and most proffesionals, bar lawyers, are Republicans. I say both parties are equally intelligent (or if your cynical equally stupid.)
“The nation that will insist upon drawing a broad line of demarcation between the fighting man and the thinking man is liable to find its fighting done by fools and its thinking by cowards.”
—Sir William Francis Butler
Gruffles
Ahh, my liberal friends who would dismerch our efforts and demean our troops as 'broken' or 'unable to win' just love when I whip this one out.
Are we winning? Over ten million Iraqis voted YES!
I don't see Iraqis walking around thanking Chirac, or Shroeder, or John Kerry. I see them thanking "George Bush". We are winning and will win --and no amount of pessimism or attempts to dismiss our troops will change that fact.
Faithfully under the patronage of the fallen yet rather amiable Octavian.
Smile! The better the energy you put in, the better the energy you will get out.
This, my friend is what is known in philosophy as a Logical Fallacy. The one that you have presented is what is called a biased Sample. It also falls into what is called Hasty Generalization, in which you form a conclusion about a entire nation on a very small sample, one women to be exact. It might even qualifies as Appeal to Ridicule, because you are ridiculeing a belief. Also, I must remind you that elections did take place in weimar germany. We know that it ensured that a peaceful german nation came from that right? one that does not involve in a genocide, right?Ahh, my liberal friends who would dismerch our efforts and demean our troops as 'broken' or 'unable to win' just love when I whip this one out.
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