What exact effects does phalanx formation have in ALX and RTW?

[Dunadd]

What exact effects does phalanx formation have in RTW and ALX?

Since i'm playing with ALX.exe i'm thinking of removing some of the armour and shield for phalanx units so they aren't over-powered when they can form phalanx as well, but i'd like to know exactly what phalanx formation does.

If it e.g gives a 50% boost to armour and shield then it'll differ from it giving absolute number bonuses to them for instance.

[Carados]

A bonus against missile weapons from the front seems to be the only notable hidden effect.

[Dunadd]

but (and especially in ExRM 3.5.3) how much defence does being in phalanx formation add against missiles (or does it add none since it's for BI?)

I'm not sure which parts are 'hidden' and which aren't as i've little or no modding knowledge (only enough to edit units and buildings in mods made by others)

What's the overall effect of being in phalanx on a unit's missile defence?

I've got ExRM 3.5.3 working with ALEX.exe. Should i reduce the armour and shield skills of all phalanx units now so they're not overpowered (assuming they had their armour and or shield skilsl increased to make up for there being no phalanx formation in BI)?

[Carados]

but (and especially in ExRM 3.5.3) how much defence does being in phalanx formation add against missiles (or does it add none since it's for BI?)

I don't know. They are just more resilient to missiles from the front - nothing overpowering.

I'm not sure which parts are 'hidden' and which aren't as i've little or no modding knowledge (only enough to edit units and buildings in mods made by others)

Ah, what I meant by hidden was that you can't "see" the effect. The other things you can though. When a unit attacks the phalanx from the front, you'll notice that very few enemies actually get in to hand-to-hand combat with the front of the phalanx. You'll also notice slow movement.

What's the overall effect of being in phalanx on a unit's missile defence?

It increases. I can't say anymore than that really.

I've got ExRM 3.5.3 working with ALEX.exe. Should i reduce the armour and shield skills of all phalanx units now so they're not overpowered (assuming they had their armour and or shield skilsl increased to make up for there being no phalanx formation in BI)?

No no, keep the phalanx units the same. I don't understand what you mean with BI though because you can still use the phalanx formation??

[Dunadd]

What i mean is BI doesn't allow phalanx, so i'm assuming that when editing phalanx units you or Quinn or CC will have increased phalanx units' armour or shield bonuses to simulate phalanx when running ExRM with BI.

I'm running ExRM with ALX which does allow phalanx, which increases missile defence, so should i reduce all phalanx units' armour and shield bonuses since they'll be boosted when they can use the phalanx formation.

[Carados]

Are you sure they don't allow phalanx units?!
ExRM, which uses BI, allows for the phalanx formation.
Does your 3.5.3 not let you use phalangites?

[Dunadd]

It does - how did you manage that? I thought BI didn't allow phalanx formation. Did you edit shield wall and rename it phalanx?

[Quinn Inuit]

It does - how did you manage that? I thought BI didn't allow phalanx formation. Did you edit shield wall and rename it phalanx?

No, trust me, it's phalanx.

And I'll reiterate Carados's point about shield_wall--don't give that to anybody. It's overpowered.

[Carados]

;Tier 3 Heavy Infantry
type bactrian pikemen
dictionary rtr_bactria_pikes
category infantry
class spearmen
voice_type Medium_1
soldier ferres_levy_phalanx, 60, 0, 0.8
attributes sea_faring,hide_forest,can_sap,hardy
formation 0.9, 1, 2, 2, 8,square,phalanx
stat_health 1, 4
stat_pri 14, 1, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, spear, 25 , 0.4
stat_pri_attr light_spear, long_pike, spear_bonus_8
stat_sec 8, 1, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, sword, 0 , 0.25
stat_sec_attr no
stat_pri_armour 7, 10, 3, leather
stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh
stat_heat 5
stat_ground -8, -4, -8, -4
stat_mental 8, disciplined, highly_trained
stat_charge_dist 0
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 2, 1540, 350, 104, 112, 528
ownership thrace

I'd avoid giving anything shieldwall. If you want a tight formation you should just edit the unit formation so that they are naturally tight.

[Wien1938]

More like useless. The figures stand so closely together that they can't fight properly!

[Quinn Inuit]

True, but they get a ridiculous mass boost, so breaking their ranks is impossible. I once won a city fight using three militia hoplites (with shield wall, at the time), a scutarii spear unit, a scutarii sword unit, and some Balearic slingers against a Carthaginian full stack, including two Sacred Band infantry units. Sacred Band should not just bounce off of a militia hoplite unit under any circumstances, but that's how the battle went.