Porn, is it good or bad *Adults only!!*

[God-Emperor of Mankind]

Let's have a good discussion about porn here shall we.
Does it have any uses on our society and what disadvantages can it create ?
Can it save marriages or can it destroy them ?
Please keep the discussion civil and mature.

[ExcaliburFIN]

Not bad not good. Its everyones invidual thing...

[Torment]

I will be keeping a close eye on this thread. One wrong move and it will be closed.

[HorseArcher]

It's fine with me, Just like I was fine with the other thread, untill it stirred up enough drama to make my decision to close it.

[Darth Wong]

I already posted in the other thread about why I feel that the arguments against porn are either hasty generalizations or just outright false. I also noticed that none of the people in the other thread who said porn was "wrong" bothered to provide reasons for that judgment. So I would be curious to see whether any of the porn-haters can produce an ethical justification of their position which is more thoroughly reasoned than "porn is just wrong".

[big bad badger]

I already posted in the other thread about why I feel that the arguments against porn are either hasty generalizations or just outright false. I also noticed that none of the people in the other thread who said porn was "wrong" bothered to provide reasons for that judgment. So I would be curious to see whether any of the porn-haters can produce an ethical justification of their position which is more thoroughly reasoned than "porn is just wrong".

I'll tell you why its wrong. Watching naked people jump on other naked people for pleasure is WRONG because it shows, in my opinion, social depravation. Instead of that why not watch a film insted? Naked-ness is sick, so GET A LIFE! I know you'll say, 'but naked-ness is natural' but thats not the point! Exploiting nature for pleasure is strange.

[Scar Face]

I'll tell you why its wrong. Watching naked people jump on other naked people for pleasure is WRONG because it shows, in my opinion, social depravation. Instead of that why not watch a film insted? Naked-ness is sick, so GET A LIFE! I know you'll say, 'but naked-ness is natural' but thats not the point! Exploiting nature for pleasure is strange.

Badger not exploting nature for pleasure is strange. 90% of everyone does, Infact playing with a kitten is that not ''exploiting'' nature for pleasure? Is that strange? Why not watch another movie? Because They aren't in the mood for another crappy movie because there horny! Naked-ness is NOT sick you are obviously messed in the head or are a VIRGIN. Naked-ness is natural

[Justinian]

I'll tell you why its wrong. Watching naked people jump on other naked people for pleasure is WRONG because it shows, in my opinion, social depravation. Instead of that why not watch a film insted? Naked-ness is sick, so GET A LIFE! I know you'll say, 'but naked-ness is natural' but thats not the point! Exploiting nature for pleasure is strange.

When did sex become unnatural? Surely reproduction is natural? How is nakedness sick?

[Darth Wong]

I'll tell you why its wrong. Watching naked people jump on other naked people for pleasure is WRONG because it shows, in my opinion, social depravation.

So the only reason you give for declaring porn wrong is that it's your "opinion"? That's not much of a reason.

Instead of that why not watch a film insted?

What makes you think that people can't watch both porn and regular movies?

Naked-ness is sick, so GET A LIFE! I know you'll say, 'but naked-ness is natural' but thats not the point! Exploiting nature for pleasure is strange.

OK, this is just plain weird. You just described nature and the behaviour of virtually all creatures as "sick" and "strange". And what reason do you have for declaring it to be "sick"? Just your opinion again? The declaration that it's "strange" is simply factually wrong, since it's far too common to be strange.

[Bwaho]

Encouraging bad and evil behaviour in video films (plus making money of it!) is just sick and it's a step back to the stone age. Showing women, no humans being treated like dogs. Exploiting a weakness in a human being (lack of money or a not so smart person) manipulating them into doing sick twisted things. Slapping them in the face or hurting them in other ways to show them in a degraded light. Why care? they are only objects to be exploited. If there is a way to make money how can it ever be wrong?

Next step start selling videos of people being brutally killed. Show some idiot being held down by four guys while they stab him in the throat with a knife. There's lots of money to be made here and don't feel sorry for the killed guy, he was stupid enough to get killed in the first place.

[Darth Wong]

Encouraging bad and evil behaviour in video films (plus making money of it!) is just sick and it's a step back to the stone age. Showing women, no humans being treated like dogs. Exploiting a weakness in a human being (lack of money or a not so smart person) manipulating them into doing sick twisted things. Slapping them in the face or hurting them in other ways to show them in a degraded light. Why care? they are only objects to be exploited. If there is a way to make money how can it ever be wrong?

So your proof that porn movies are bad and evil is your assertion that the activities portrayed in porn movies are bad and evil? Are you saying that sex is bad and evil? Are you saying that people are being harmed in porn movies? How do you know they don't enjoy it? There are many examples of women who become quite wealthy thanks to porn and still do it. Why?

Next step start selling videos of people being brutally killed. Show some idiot being held down by four guys while they stab him in the throat with a knife. There's lots of money to be made here and don't feel sorry for the killed guy, he was stupid enough to get killed in the first place.

You honestly think that porn will lead to this? Is this really the best argument against porn that you can make?

[CrackerMonkey]

Hmmm...

I think the only reason people would be against porn is that it creates a distorted picture of the female and her role in sexual affairs. It seems to me that in a lot of porn movies the female is just like a doll being used by her male counterpart.

Another note is that some very young girls are pushed into this industry, where they have to have sex with men that they don't necessarily want to have sex with. You could argue that this is the same for boys, but to me it looks like the male in most pornography is older than the female. If they're older then they have more of a choice, one would think.

Thirdly, it contributes create a focus on sex that I find rather disgusting. We all know how much our modern society emphasizes on appearance. This is especially true for girls who litterary think that they can't walk out of their homes without wearing a buttload of make-up. Anyhoo, people who watch porn may be affected by it and get a (IMO) wrong picture of the world.

[MoROmeTe]

I believe porn is good as long as it does not incite to crime... So sex yes, bestiality and/or crimes no....

[Darth Wong]

Hmmm...

I think the only reason people would be against porn is that it creates a distorted picture of the female and her role in sexual affairs. It seems to me that in a lot of porn movies the female is just like a doll being used by her male counterpart.

That's why the best porn movies are the ones where the female actually seems to be enjoying herself. You shouldn't overgeneralize.

Another note is that some very young girls are pushed into this industry, where they have to have sex with men that they don't necessarily want to have sex with. You could argue that this is the same for boys, but to me it looks like the male in most pornography is older than the female. If they're older then they have more of a choice, one would think.

How are they "pushed" into the industry? By being offered ridiculous amounts of money for an hour's work? Are you using Karl Marx's overbroad definition of exploitation?

Thirdly, it contributes create a focus on sex that I find rather disgusting. We all know how much our modern society emphasizes on appearance. This is especially true for girls who litterary think that they can't walk out of their homes without wearing a buttload of make-up.

So mainstream movies which show people having sex but without the explicit bits do not focus on appearance? In fact, if you watch porn movies, the women in general have far more "realistic" bodies than Hollywood women. Hollywood portrayals of women are so carefully choreographed, made up, lighted, and (if necessary) digitally altered that they look perfect. In porn, you can usually see blemishes, imperfections, scars, pimples, shaving stubble, etc. You can even see a bit of fat on them.

Anyhoo, people who watch porn may be affected by it and get a (IMO) wrong picture of the world.

Ah yes, totally unlike Hollywood mainstream movies, which always give a completely realistic and accurate picture of the world and personal relationships.

[CrackerMonkey]

That's why the best porn movies are the ones where the female actually seems to be enjoying herself. You shouldn't overgeneralize.

Sorry, I don't really have much experience with porn and so the only ones I've seen have had the women being "used".
I'm sure there is high-quality porn out there, that depicts the female enjoying herself, but this doesn't change the fact that most of it still portrays the female as a mere object for the male to use.

How are they "pushed" into the industry? By being offered ridiculous amounts of money for an hour's work? Are you using Karl Marx's overbroad definition of exploitation?

If the young girls don't know what they're going into, then yes, they're being exploited. It the same as with hookers, really.

So mainstream movies which show people having sex but without the explicit bits do not focus on appearance? In fact, if you watch porn movies, the women in general have far more "realistic" bodies than Hollywood women. Hollywood portrayals of women are so carefully choreographed, made up, lighted, and (if necessary) digitally altered that they look perfect. In porn, you can usually see blemishes, imperfections, scars, pimples, shaving stubble, etc. You can even see a bit of fat on them.

I agree. I didn't say that Hollywood movies are any better but again this doesn't make the porn movies good either.
Porn movies at least contribute to the less personal relationships we've seen in the last years. I know plenty of people who are telling me that their girl/boyfriends only wants sex and that they would like a more serious relationship. It's a bit sad.
Also, Hollywood movies tend to focus on many things, not just sex, while porn movies focus on only one thing, namely sex, hence the focus is directed more at the looks of the female than in a hollywood movie.

For the record though: I'm not against porn. My mum is. So I'm actually just playing the devils advocate here...

[Darth Wong]

Sorry, I don't really have much experience with porn and so the only ones I've seen have had the women being "used".

I think it's also noteworthy that different people have different expectations about what constitutes pleasurable activity. Without getting into the particulars of various acts (which would be a violation of the TOS), let's just say that my wife has asked me to do things that I've seen being described online by feminists as degrading behaviour. Some people see degradation and exploitation everywhere. I've even seen some feminists who claim that the sex act itself is intrinsically misogynistic!

I'm sure there is high-quality porn out there, that depicts the female enjoying herself, but this doesn't change the fact that most of it still portrays the female as a mere object for the male to use.

I'm tempted to ask precisely what kind of things lead you to say this, but that would probably lead to explicit descriptions of particular acts which would violate the TOS, so let's not go there. I'll just say that there is a lot of porn out there which depicts women engaging in acts which can be pleasurable for them, and in any case, if one is going to make a blanket statement that porn is bad, one can't rely on this kind of selective argument anyway.

If the young girls don't know what they're going into, then yes, they're being exploited. It the same as with hookers, really.

No one can seriously believe a girl would go into the pornography business and not know what she's getting into. Unless these girls are mentally retarded, they know it's not going to be romance and roses. And I reiterate my earlier point about promiscuity; the girls who go into this business are not innocent little flowers.

I agree. I didn't say that Hollywood movies are any better but again this doesn't make the porn movies good either.

But it does mean that one can just as easily say "Hollywood movies are wrong" as "porn is wrong". Yet the number of people who keep immoral mainstream movies (eg- James Bond films, etc) out of their homes for fear of their immorality is miniscule.

Porn movies at least contribute to the less personal relationships we've seen in the last years. I know plenty of people who are telling me that their girl/boyfriends only wants sex and that they would like a more serious relationship. It's a bit sad.

Please tell me you don't seriously believe this is a recent development. In the past, relationships were more of a one-sided users' relationship than they are today.

Also, Hollywood movies tend to focus on many things, not just sex, while porn movies focus on only one thing, namely sex, hence the focus is directed more at the looks of the female than in a hollywood movie.

No, it's directed at the actions of the female. Pornstars are generally less attractive than Hollywood stars.

For the record though: I'm not against porn. My mum is. So I'm actually just playing the devils advocate here...

Fair enough.

[CrackerMonkey]

I think it's also noteworthy that different people have different expectations about what constitutes pleasurable activity. Without getting into the particulars of various acts (which would be a violation of the TOS), let's just say that my wife has asked me to do things that I've seen being described online by feminists as degrading behaviour. Some people see degradation and exploitation everywhere. I've even seen some feminists who claim that the sex act itself is intrinsically misogynistic!

Of course, it's totally subjective. Some people like things that others loathe.
Maybe it's ok to do so with the females consent, but then we get over to the other argument about whether or not the young girls actually know what they're doing when entering the porn arena.

I'm tempted to ask precisely what kind of things lead you to say this, but that would probably lead to explicit descriptions of particular acts which would violate the TOS, so let's not go there. I'll just say that there is a lot of porn out there which depicts women engaging in acts which can be pleasurable for them, and in any case, if one is going to make a blanket statement that porn is bad, one can't rely on this kind of selective argument anyway.

You are of course correct. I have not seen enough porn movies to know these things.
But you must agree that even though there is a lot of "good" porn out there, there's also a lot of "bad" porn, right? Maybe even moreso than "good" porn. There will always be variations of stuff out there. Let's take different kinds of neo-nazism for example. Some of them are sure to be really racist, but maybe there's a small precentage that are not racist in any way. Should we condem neo-nazism if we only don't like their views on skincolor, even though some of them don't share those same views? (a bad and quite extreme example, I know...) Most people would answer yes, because it's for the greater good. Same with porn (if most porn is "bad" porn, that is...)

No one can seriously believe a girl would go into the pornography business and not know what she's getting into. Unless these girls are mentally retarded, they know it's not going to be romance and roses. And I reiterate my earlier point about promiscuity; the girls who go into this business are not innocent little flowers.

Some girls are incredibly naive. While neither of us have any sources to back this up, I'm sure a lot of the girls in the business would choose another line of work, had they been able to do so.

But it does mean that one can just as easily say "Hollywood movies are wrong" as "porn is wrong". Yet the number of people who keep immoral mainstream movies (eg- James Bond films, etc) out of their homes for fear of their immorality is miniscule.

It's probably because of the (ridiculous IMO) general public acknowledgement that violence is ok, but sex is a no-no.

(Whoops, there I just blew my own argument away... :sweatingb )

Please tell me you don't seriously believe this is a recent development. In the past, relationships were more of a one-sided users' relationship than they are today.

Well, the porn industry certainly aren't helping any either...

No, it's directed at the actions of the female. Pornstars are generally less attractive than Hollywood stars.

Well, I don't want to watch an overweight girl banging, do I? There are some requirements for joining the porn industry, I'm sure.

[sephodwyrm]

Bad...

But I won't ban it. This is the same about the black market. I support the black market because it equilibrates the supply and demand dynamics.

[makeshift52]

I seriously doubt it, I mean c'mon, they won't miss school because they will be 18 already and might have some sense.

[Francisco Montana]

Too much porn is 'bad'. If you are married and are addicted to porn and it effects your relationship, it's bad.

If you are married and want to spice up the night life and the relationship isn't effected, it's fine.

If you are single, porn away. Just don't let it ruin your social life.