Young man commits Suicide, live after being encouraged on internet forum

[trance]

It happened the 11th of October, here in Sweden, Södertälje IIRC.

The man, who was suffering from a mild form of Aspbergers started a topic on one of Sweden's largest forums Flashback (Which is notorious for being completely free - with sections dedicated to everything from Bizarre/Mondo to Pedophilia), where he stated that he was going to commit suicide, and that he would "film" it with a camera, one frame per two seconds. Which he uploaded to some site.

Topic was opened at 1151, last message from him at the forum was sent at 13:13 (Swedish time). He was dead around 5 minutes later.

Some forum members tracked down IP and called the emergency services at 13:44. Police and ambulance arrived at around 14:05, but the young man's life could not be saved.

During his posting in the topic, he was called out as a troll, and some even dared him to do it "You're a coward, you won't do it". Some forum members tried to talk him out of him, and apparantly might have been successful as he was started to doubt whether he'd go through with it or not.

I couldn't find any news about it on english, but for those who understand swedish, here is the original thread at least:

Removed, not in English and best not to link graphic material-Red

This does raise a couple of moral questions, especially for forums in general. These are my own thoughts, as well as some excerpts from the current debate.
What moral obligations do we have on the internet?
Should internet be regulated to prevent this from happening again?
Should the instigators be held responsible?

Could it happen in our community?
Are we and can we be prepared for a similar situation?

Personally I'm disgusted over the behavior of those who encouraged him to go through with it, some even gave him tips about what methods he should try instead of hanging, at least the behavior that followed in that thread, where some users were indifferent and even thought it was "the coolest thing they ever saw" etc.

Regards.

[Col. Tartleton]

If he wants to kill himself let him. He's an idiot. If he wants to make himself a spectacle like that he should be cheered on as he dies. People do stupid things and then the moral police shift the blame. If someone died doing a crazy publicity stunt like jumping off a house on a bike and died it would turn into a debate about whether extreme sports are too extreme.

They're missing the point. People die. Stupid people die stupidly. Outside facts are irrelevant.

[Copperknickers II]

If he wants to kill himself let him. He's an idiot. If he wants to make himself a spectacle like that he should be cheered on as he dies. People do stupid things and then the moral police shift the blame. If someone died doing a crazy publicity stunt like jumping off a house on a bike and died it would turn into a debate about whether extreme sports are too extreme.

They're missing the point. People die. Stupid people die stupidly. Outside facts are irrelevant.

I'd rather kill myself than live in such a world in which thinking like that is the mainstream, where people with mental illnesses would presumably be cheered in the street to kill themselves for entertainment. Nazi isn't a strong enough word for those kind of words (which may not be taken as representative of the poster who posted them of course, i bear him no ill-will).

Also, standing beside a cliff urging depressed people to jump off and showing them methods of jumping would get you at least a community service sentence for inciting self-hatred, what some people did is the same as that and they should be held accountable even if they did do it online.

[DarkArk]

If he wants to kill himself let him. He's an idiot.

So, people who are dealing with extraordinary amounts of pain are idiots? People commit suicide for all sorts of reasons.

[Fishy]

So, people who are dealing with extraordinary amounts of pain are idiots? People commit suicide for all sorts of reasons.

Regardless, they are still taking an easy way out. I don't know the specifics of this story but odds are he had a family, friends and a future. Suicide is almost never the answer to the problems somebody has.

As for the role of the internet in this, it has none. With or without internet he would have died, now at least the emergency services came, albeit to late, and some people tried to talk him out of it, and failed. But at least things were tried, one could argue just as easily that the very fact that people tried but failed shows that the internet should be allowed to continue to be free, as if only one in a 1.000 is saved because of an online conversation then it's worth it. The people that still kill themselves however would have most likely killed themselves without the internet as well.

So best case scenario is: Somebody is helped because of people on the internet talking and asking him or her not to do it. Trying to change a viewpoint.

And worst case is: Somebody goes through with it as planned all the same.

Seems like a good thing the internet is there.

[Dubh the dark]

Regardless, they are still taking an easy way out. I don't know the specifics of this story but odds are he had a family, friends and a future. Suicide is almost never the answer to the problems somebody has.

I'm not sure I'd call committing suicide the 'easy way out', I imagine it would be the most difficult thing a person could do, which shows just how bad things must have been for him. No-one should take suicide lightly but in this world all manner of bad things happen. I guess the issue is that not enough people on that forum took him seriously at his word. It's a shame.

[Ältester der Motten]

Regardless, they are still taking an easy way out.

If the commitment to suicide was an easy one I'd have killed me a few dozen times now.


It's actually pretty hard coming to terms with the facts that those who love you will suffer terrible grief and that you are quite simply dead.

[Fishy]

Wow, lot of reactions on the suicide being the easy way out thing. Now as to reply to that, I never once seriously considered suicide. Sure I had moments where I didn't think live was really worth it anymore, but I never went as far as to actually try it.

The reason for that is primarily because a very good friend of mine decided to do it. We, me and a bunch of friends and his parents, talked him out of it the first time he tried, we weren't there the second. He took the easy way out because he had situations he couldn't deal with. School problems, girl friend problems, parents divorcing. Nothing that hasn't happened to a million other people, but he lost perspective deemed the situation so terrible that he didn't want to try and get out of it, when he damn well knew he could. That's the easy way out to me, and there is no excuse.

Now let me make one other thing clear, suicide because of medical reasons I personally call Euthanasia. I have no problem with that at all. But a decision like that is usually shared with others, giving people the time to prepare a time to adjust and say goodbye, suicide it self does not give any of those options it just violently rips somebody from your live, like an accident would only you are left behind with the doubt about what you could have done differently. What you could have done to stop it. Suicide is taking your own problems away and then giving problems to everybody that knows and loves you without caring about the consequences, or at least not enough. So yeah I call that the easy way out.

If the commitment to suicide was an easy one I'd have killed me a few dozen times now.


It's actually pretty hard coming to terms with the facts that those who love you will suffer terrible grief and that you are quite simply dead.

Now I don't know if you are serious about wanting to commit suicide or if it's just a thought that passed your mind once and again, but at least you then had the common sense to see how much you would be hurting others and moved on for them. Others do not.

[trance]

No Tartelton, that's incredibly ignorant. The man had aspbergers/autism, which seriously affects his cognitive abilities and reasoning skills. This guy didn't know better, he needed help and, introverted as he was, turned to the internet for that. Smart? No. Understandable? Yes.

[Gromovnik]

The man had aspbergers/autism...

or so he claimed...

[Yosemite]

or so he claimed...

why so dubious

I know someone who committed suicide, who did not show any signs at least not to me. Not until a note was found did anybody ever find out. There was no history of medical illness, nothing like that at all. Depression maybe, but depression is a curable, it can be handled. Just claiming it's a mental illness and that something like that automatically gives you an excuse is too easy.

maybe you think depression is easily curable

[Col. Tartleton]

To be honest I can't think of something more mentally ill.

Its a state of mind where one wishes to destroy oneself. Regardless of cause that state of mind is not healthy and involves the mind. Mental illness by definition. Its an illness of the mind. I cant' think of anything else. I mean I feel like hearing voices is more sane then killing oneself. One's an altered state of mind where one is hallucinating, but the latter is self destruction. Pretty wild.

I can't think of it ever making sense to kill one's self. It may make sense to wish you didn't exist. But killing oneself does not undo you. It simply ends your future. You may not feel worse anymore if you kill yourself, but you'll never feel better.

Also why are there so many threads about suicide on this forum. You'd think that people here were introverts...

[Fishy]

maybe you think depression is easily curable

No, but people suffering from depressions can often still foresee the consequences of their actions, they still know what something will do. They often know that there can be ways out, but just don't want it too and then decide to end it. People that commit suicide often go through a depression or something like that for a long time without asking for help, usually because they are afraid and then when it becomes to much they kill themselves. That's not a mental illness as much as it is just getting out.

[Groundtotem]

@Fishy

They often know that there can be ways out, but just don't want it too and then decide to end it.

And how do you know that they haven't tried to get all help available? It's not just as easy as you try make it sound like. Depressions can be very hard to cure. I think that most people would want to live but some people just cross a line where they can no longer see a point or any hope for them, and that's when they get mentally ill imo.

People that commit suicide often go through a depression or something like that for a long time without asking for help

Some people seek help others dont. But i would think that the majority of people seek help in one way or another.

usually because they are afraid and then when it becomes to much they kill themselves.

I don't think this is true at all, i think that the people that fail to ask for help do so because they think its embarrassing to admit that they have these issues. Also they dont want anyone to know that they are having a hard time. That's why so many suicides comes as a shock because no one knew that the person in question had such a serious problem.

It's really hard to admit to others that you are suicidal and having problems, especially if you have low self esteem.

That's not a mental illness as much as it is just getting out.

It is a mental illness when you want to kill yourself. It's not so easy to just " getting out". It's hard,really hard. You cant cure a depression and mental illness with a bandage and some stitches. Often serious trauma in one way or another is behind a suicide.

Yes people do understand that in killing yourself you will stop to exist but when they get to that stage they no longer care, its a feeling of hopelessness and that is one of the worst feelings you could ever experience.

[Gromovnik]

why so dubious

because there's no proof for that?

[Squiggle]

This is completely common on 4chan. Happens like once a week. Sick but....eh.

I'm not sure I'd call committing suicide the 'easy way out', I imagine it would be the most difficult thing a person could do, which shows just how bad things must have been for him. No-one should take suicide lightly but in this world all manner of bad things happen. I guess the issue is that not enough people on that forum took him seriously at his word. It's a shame.

Self evidently he viewed suicide as easier than carrying on and trying to improve his life, therefore it can not be the hardest thing you could ever do, and IS the easier way out.

No Tartelton, you're incredibly ignorant. The man had aspbergers/autism, which seriously affects his cognitive abilities and reasoning skills. This guy didn't know better, he needed help and, introverted as he was, turned to the internet for that. Smart? No. Understandable? Yes.

AFAIK aspergers makes you socially awkward, etc. But does not impair cognitive abilities in that way. The man knew what suicide was, he knew the implications of what he was doing...

[trance]

Aspbergers might not, but it's cousin autism may affect cognitive abilities. Near obsessive interest with an object, story or science etc. Now ponder that he watched a movie or got into contact with a source glorifying suicide.

The way he did it, he seemed very detached in all his messages about what he was about to do. I seriously believe that it could have been stopped if he wasn't instigated towards doing it.

[DarkArk]

they are still taking an easy way out. I don't know the specifics of this story but odds are he had a family, friends and a future.

Have you been suicidal? I'm guessing you haven't. People become suicidal when they run out of coping mechanisms to deal with the pain that they are feeling. To people that are suicidal, there is no future, or none that they can see working out well. They become faced with a wall of despair that they feel they cannot overcome, and it is a terrible feeling. So bad, that you will want to kill yourself. You're trivializing it, which does nothing to help a suicidal person. They usually don't want to, but they see no other way to improve things.

[Darth Red]

Note to the thread, any insunuations of 'go kill yourself' or any variation thereof will be dealt with in a harsh manner. Be extra careful how you debate this please.

[Brain_in_a_vat]

When people hide behind a computer screen they turn into vicious, obnoxious, condescending little bastards.

Regardless, they are still taking an easy way out. I don't know the specifics of this story but odds are he had a family, friends and a future. Suicide is almost never the answer to the problems somebody has.

No, it's not the easy way out mate. Your statement is based on ignorance/lack of experience. I'd like to see you go through a suicidal phase and say what you just said again. And no, I'm not condoning suicide in any way shape or form. When people are suicidal probablythe last thing they're thinking about is the future, in fact the future is sometimes the reason people commit suicide.

Do you honestly think people who are suicidal are just selfish, dramatic bastards? Or is it more likely that their pain is just too hard to bear?