Excommunicaton with a large empire

[EBBefar]

Hello everyone, this is my first post.

I need some advise concerning excommunication. I'm playing The Danes, and have a rather large empire (31 regions, incl. all of russia and most of what used to be HRE) and a great desire to expand further. England is my next target, but of the pope feels differently about it. Som my question is: What are the consequences of being excommunicated? I know I risk a crusade, but I don't know wich cities the AI like to target. And also, what other consequences are there?
Any and all advise is appreciated

General info about my empire: It's year 1366, and the plague is just receding. I'm not that wealthy, primerily because of the plague, but I get by. The only country who can match my total army strength are the Mongols, but they are bussy in the holy land. I'm currently at war with England, Scotland (very weak), Venice and Sicily (who are down to one region). I Allied with The Byzantine Empire, The Moors and Portugal.
So I guess the question is: Is it worth it?

[RO Citizen]

Don't get excommunicated. Excommunication will give you alot of unrest, plus all Catholics against you in Crusades and so much less money. Don't attack the English, just wait until Pope's mission ends (like 5-10 turns), and in the meanwhile build ballistas, onagers, etc. After that, attack most the English cities in 1 turn and conquer them. If the Pope sends you another mission, stop and the do the same thing later. After you kill the English (&French, too ?) you may consider attacking any country and on the Pope!
Welcome to TWC, btw!

[EBBefar]

Thanks mate. I've been browsing the forum, and it seems that if I do get excommunicated, and either my faction leader or the pope dies, I'm back in with the catholics. Is that correct? My leader is 57-58 and I don't expect him to last long. Plus I can always just feed him to the rebels or the english. Might that not be a tactic worth exploring?

[Silverheart]

Well, excommunication means several things.
Most importantly, your quarrel with the pope causes your loyal catholic inhabitants to disagree with your course of action, causing a noticeable fall in public order in All your settlements (those that have a considerable catholic population, of course).
Rebels are more likely to appear in your regions, and any catholic nation can improve its´ reputation with the Pope by attacking you, and weakening you in any way.
There is also a large risk that your catholic enemies will request a crusade against you - in which case they typically go for your capital or strongholds (strategic citadels or cities that are important for whatever reason), but there is no guarantee for what they will set their sights on first. You´ll just have to fortify the targeted settlement quickly and effectively when it is announced (you DO receive a report about it when the crusade is called).
Considering the size of your empire, I think you should still wait a little longer before going straight against the Popes´ will.
There are obviously some pockets of possible threats remaining, and you should grow a little stronger first.
So, do not attack England if it is certain to cause an excommunication.
Try expanding against the Mongols instead - the Pope will only like it if you slaughter a few thousand muslims, and by conquering the Middle East you can build up the strength you need to make your empire Invincible.
Plus, with the Levant and Anatolia under your control, dealing with the Timurids will be a lot easier (check threads in the forum for details on defeating them)
I usually prefer to remain the Popes´ pet until I´m clearly stronger than all other factions put together. After that, there is no problem in being at war with everyone - you´ll simply crush any who oppose you, and hang the consequnces!
And I always save the Pope for last...

[Silverheart]

Mostly, you get reconciliated if your faction leader dies (he´s the excommunicated one), but I have been in situations where the pope hated me so much that I didn´t get reconciliated even when my king died. And reversed, I have been in situations where a new pope was elected, and even then I wasn´t reconciliated.
It´s very hard to get that kind of hatred though, so you should be fine with that strategy, just don´t underestimate the longevity of your king.

[EBBefar]

Thanks for the advise. I would advance towards the middle-east, but Poland control Kiev, Sarkel and Tiblisi and I need another war with them like I need a kick in the nuts. I guess I'll just have to roll the dice on this one. Next stop: London

[Silverheart]

Can´t you just equip a family member with a big army and ship him there?
Move the army through Russia to the Black sea and ship them across to Anatolia, them move them to Antioch, Adana or Edessa (controlling any of them gives you a good foothold to expand from).

Having others standing in your way is never a problem, the inability to find a way around is!

ps.
Good luck in London.
Be sure to bring lots of siege weapons and Huscarls.
ds.

[EBBefar]

Perhaps I could. But the Timurids have just arrived, and I spot 9½ full stacks in that area. I think I'll just let them fight it out with the Mongols, who are heavily present in down there. Hopefully they will weaken each other, while I conquer western Europe

Taking England, mean while, proved to be a tedious process. Following the advise of this forum, I decided to wait until my "papal ban" from war with the britts endend. I now hold London and Nottingham, but I havent been able to take Caen yet. Instead I have been forced in to a war with Hungary, just as Venice escalated their efforts. My revenge, of course, was swift and I took Venice (the city) and Budapest within a few rounds. Venice especially is of great value, as it allows me direct access to the mediterranean, and thus a sea route to africa and the middle-east, should I choose to get involved involved in that conflict.

Why do you recommend Huscarls? I usually use Dismounted Feudal Knights and Norse Axemen.

[Silverheart]

Huscarls are cavalry, making them effective against archers, artillery and light infantry. They may lack the high charge of knights, but they make up for it with ferocity.
Also, the Huscarls wield axes, giving them a nice bonus against heavily armoured foes, such as the heavy infantry the English seem to be so fond of.

The English have a tendency to rely very much on artillery and heavy elite infantry (in the later periods, at least), and the Huscarls are a great counter against both. And those english knights are not much of a threat either, unless you get charged by them.
When I play with Danes, I always use Huscarls or War Clerics way more than the knights, simply because they are more versatile than the common Knight. The dismounted ones are also great ^::^

[painter]

I am probably quite late with this advice, but if the pope threatens excommunication to you, there is a chance he has threatened the same with the other faction.

One time, I was playing England, and the Holy Roman Empire started the war with me by laying siege to Antwerp. With my spies, I had seen it coming and had position my armies ready to counter attack immediately after the war was started. After of my turn of carefully considered response to what I think of the Holy Roman Empire, the pope threatened me with excommunication on the next turn. I was not surprised.

A couple of turns later, the Holy Roman Empire made a fatal mistake of laying siege to another town. I hadn't known it at the time, but when it was my turn to play, I was informed by the pope that the Holy Roman Empire was excommunicated and I was no longer required to ceasefire with them. It didn't take too long to make the Holy Roman Empire a foot note in history after that.

[Silverheart]

Yes, it´s relatively common, when the popes´ feelings are not strongly different about either faction, that he threatens to excommunicate both.
However, if his opinion of one faction is way higher than his opinion of the other, he usually only threatens the other one.

[Litoralis]

I was excommunicated with an empire about that size, but I was France. I was fighting Poland, I think, and the Pope asked us to cease hostilities or I would be excommunicated. I had to take one more city and Poland would be destroyed. Well, I was excommunicated. It destroyed my public order. I probably had a rebellion almost every turn.

I spent the next 15 turns or more trying to make this go away... Ended up Assassinating two popes with super high level assassins (I love it when I have a 65 year old assassin that kills somebody). Took Rome, killing a third pope in that process, then the next pope spawned way over in Tunis or something and it took me 6 turns just to find him (but the map shows him when he moves, fortunately).

Finally, I got a couple of assassins to Tunis to assassinate the final pope, and by now my French Cardinals basically owned the College of Cardinals and I got a French Pope. Everything was good after that.

On the one hand, it was a pain in the ass, but on the other it was pretty fun. I was sending assassins across Europe killing every captain/diplomat/merchant in sight until they leveled up on their way to kill popes. I think 5 assassins died through all this and 2 assassins made it through to the end. This was a lot different than the way I play most campaigns, so it was fun. I kind of roleplay through the game and my King towards the end of this was a crazed old man obsessed with destroying the pope.

[Silverheart]

Litoralis
Lol, it IS a lot more exciting when it takes a turn to that
makes the games funnier, and a little more of a challenge.
I like to roleplay too, it is really fun at times - this game is so inspiring to us masterminds ;P