as a modder who has pulled myself up! I am like huh?

[Druvatar De Bodemloze]

granted, some of the ideas posted here are not "practical/feasable or just ideas not worth pursueing! but one thing I notice which is expirienced modders are quick to always "enlighten" the novice! but anybody who has any modding abilities do not help these ideas along again granted we who mod all have our own projects but what frustrates me is many "partial modders" work on sub mods for mods already done I think these individuals would be doing a greater service to TWC and all mtw2 players if they helped on completly new projects rather than making these "sub" mods that (in my opinion) do not really do that much!
I apologize to all who disagree, my point is help something new get a start!
and refrain from the "myopic" thinking which actually limits the scope of TWC advancements rather than be what this site really is: an alternative and superior forum for MTW2!

[Maяcel]

id rather enjoy making a submod then to help someone who has barely any knowledge make his mod. if your new you should join a mod and learn from that, after that you could be ready to start a mod. if you start a mod you should be prepared to do it on your own, if you cant then maybe your not ready for it.

[Horsa]

I've got to disagree with you. Creating a sub mod is a first step. As a new modder you are far more likely to accomplish something smaller rather than start up a big project. What I would prefer is if these new modders join established teams. Their team mates can help them along as they learn, and they will be contributing to something that has more chance of a release.

Also most modders do not have time to join these new projects, believe me, if I did I would.

[Lü Bu]

the hardest is to choose theme for your mod since all are taken...

[AnthoniusII]

the hardest is to choose theme for your mod since all are taken...

Not quite.
Here is what i wrote about modding spesific eras with their advandages and disadvandages.

Advantages and disadvantages of some dates as starting ones...
As possible dates as starting ones for a "medeival" mod could for examble be..
A:801
B:900
C:1025
D:1072 or 1066
E:1080
F:1090
G:1180
H:1205
Let us find out what each date has to "offer"...
A:801AD:It is the 1st year that Charlemagne is under his "imperial" title... In that time in europe has a great francish/germanic state but only few other european factions to be playable...The east roman empire still has all balcans,asia minor and a part of italy...But a mod weach starts at 801 will be a islamic/arabic dominated one...Arabs (3 or 4 major or lesser factions will have all north africa,midlle east and a great part of spain under their rule... And we must NOT forget the islands od sicely and crete as well...A player as an arab chaliph could easily dominate in the mod's world just doing NOTHING.
B:900AD:The year of ballances.After the batlle of Licaon river in central asia minor between the romans and arabs in 860ad there is a time that comes a ballance between the islamic and christian worlds...The romans once again become the super power of the time with only two thorns in their sides(serbia and bulgaria).Arabs now divited in many factions still dominate in spain,notrh africa,middle east...In europe the francish empire start to became many minnor states much more a mod can afford as playable factions...The "good" issues a mod like this could provide is the turkish emerge and the viking expansion to both eastern and western europe.
C:1025AD:The year of total superpower(as the historians agree).The roman empire is the ONLY real state in europe.Europe that tries to find a road to leave the dark ages...Arabs are inside a ruthless civil war (once again) living the roman emperors to play as they wish...The new features a mod like this could offer could be the domination of the vikings in all north europe and the 1st apearance of the turkish/turcamanic federations.In a medium dificalty a player of any faction could NOT survive against the only superpower.
D:1066-1072AD:Two dates that could easily have the title of "the turning point".Both of them mark a major event that changed the world more or less.
We must remember that even after his victory William did not ocupied England(he needed several year more to accomplish the occupation).
As for the 2nd date even after the loss of the Maziquert batlle the roman empire DID NOT loose its provinces and remained a hurted but strong superpower(it was a civil war nesesary to change both)...There is no serbia,bulgaria,muslim cretan principallity and others in that date)...
E:1080AD:This date has severall advantages for a mod to begin...
1st The roman empire is no longer a superpower(it still has all balcans and domination but allready lost 75% of asia minor and a new greek/turkish state has been created).The muslim world is divited is many but still strong states. Viking origin states in east europe have established and William has not only survived but diminates in most of saxon lands in England...Italian federations of trade are in uprissing...In that date there is a ballance of terror that is going the change soon....
F:1090AD:Few years before the 1st crusade...Crusades,missions with no chance for success...What huppened?Civill wars kept muslim world away of defending those lands...Muslim states that gained more gold each one alone than all european states together...How a realistic mod could present that issew?The "new"things that a mod like this could offer could be the serbian,croatian and bulgarian rebelions as starting factions of the mod...
G:1180AD:The year of the last hope for the roman empire to regain asia minor once and for all...From 1080 to 1180 the empire is once again the ultimate superpower(smaller in lands but stiil strong)The crusade states are divited even under the king og Jerusalem...The prince of Antioch is the roman emperor's vassal...Any way is generally the time frame of "Kingdoms".A mod that starts in this date can not show the basic medeival world in a player becouse that world has allready changed...
H:1205AD:The last good choice for a medeival mod to start could be 1205ad.
The roman empire does not exist(at least for a sort time).That date could focus more to the latin states of the Latin Kingdom of Constantinople...
Famous principalities such the principality of ACHAIA (the most famous knights all over europe according to historians of their time).A mod that starts in such a date will nesesary focus on christian factions (new in every way)and had muslim/islamic world out of nessesity...

[NikeBG]

Not quite.
Here is what i wrote about modding spesific eras with their advandages and disadvandages.

Just to correct you, Anthonius:
- 801AD - "The east roman empire still has all balcans,asia minor and a part of italy..." - Don't know about Asia Minor and Italy, but the Balkans were most certainly not all under the ERE.
- 1090AD - "The "new"things that a mod like this could offer could be the serbian,croatian and bulgarian rebelions as starting factions of the mod..." - Don't know about Serbia and Croatia, but the Bulgarian rebellions between 1072 and 1185 were rather minor/insignificant on a continental scale.

[matija191]

Just to correct you, Anthonius:
- 801AD - "The east roman empire still has all balcans,asia minor and a part of italy..." - Don't know about Asia Minor and Italy, but the Balkans were most certainly not all under the ERE.
- 1090AD - "The "new"things that a mod like this could offer could be the serbian,croatian and bulgarian rebelions as starting factions of the mod..." - Don't know about Serbia and Croatia, but the Bulgarian rebellions between 1072 and 1185 were rather minor/insignificant on a continental scale.

during the 1090. the Croatia was still independent

[Druvatar De Bodemloze]

the hardest is to choose theme for your mod since all are taken...

that is a problem but it really comes down to your desire to mod! and express your unique vision! for instance several of the great mods in production are not completly unique in thier themes (mine for instance the Rennassanxe mod has been done several times)and some are very unique in theme. but the mods which are unique and different will of course add greatly to the diversity of what is available for the mtw2 player but projects which seem to be something already done can offer grear variation! ( if the mod maker is striving to express a unique "slant" or "perception" of the era and theme of focus it will be a unique mod and not one the hundreds of "Cloning mods" which liter the released portion of this forum! a mod idea is not only unique in its theme but also greatly from the mod makers personal innovation around the game . I personally think it is rather "thinking in the box" not to make a mod because someone has already done it "did god himself" come down and annoint that mod as the concise and supreme mod on that specific theme? NO! because (hypothetic number) if we have a ten that are all different
that is good but if we have say 50 which are different but some are alike that is still better!

[Meneth]

I got into modding by making sub-mods.
IMO, it's a great way to start out.
It's only lately, a couple of months later, that I'm working on a stand-alone project, and I still work on sub-mods.
And as has been mentioned, many modders simply don't have the time to work on a stand-alone project.

Getting good at modding is a very gradual process. Trying to chew over more than one can manage will often end badly, and might make a modder lose motivation.

[Alone Elf]

I got into modding by making sub-mods.
IMO, it's a great way to start out.
It's only lately, a couple of months later, that I'm working on a stand-alone project, and I still work on sub-mods.
And as has been mentioned, many modders simply don't have the time to work on a stand-alone project.

Getting good at modding is a very gradual process. Trying to chew over more than one can manage will often end badly, and might make a modder lose motivation.

+rep

[beckyolt]

I agree, Theres an infinite amount of possibilities... why bother working in a submod x while theres already a submod Y exactly like X already done ? its a waste of time.


These guys could be helping warcraft:total war for example.

[Meneth]

I agree, Theres an infinite amount of possibilities... why bother working in a submod x while theres already a submod Y exactly like X already done ? its a waste of time.


These guys could be helping warcraft:total war for example.

Ofc, identical sub-mods are pointless.
Unique ones, however, certainly aren't.

[Druvatar De Bodemloze]

Ofc, identical sub-mods are pointless.
Unique ones, however, certainly aren't.

I have to agree with Meneth here, that was my point! I personally would like some of these individuals who work on sub mods to invest in helping Other full projects like warcraft and my mod but if they doing something unique even if it is just a sub mod it still good Modding!

[Meneth]

I have to agree with Meneth here, that was my point! I personally would like some of these individuals who work on sub mods to invest in helping Other full projects like warcraft and my mod but if they doing something unique even if it is just a sub mod it still good Modding!

Well, if you need help, you know where to find me.
If not, I'll just keep working on 1:13, and my Compilation.

[Ataegina]

i disagree about sub-mods be pointless. they're pointless in a way that many times this sub-mods distort the original mod or bring nothing new, but at same time isnt pointless if you view this as a start for becoming a serious modder, acquiring skills and such.

key elements of make mod, novice or not is having a plan and stick to the end with it. if you start a mod than go with it and don't start or dont get involved with alot of mods,set your limits and choices. stay with 1-2 mods and finish it, doesnt matter if final result its perfect or not, what matters is the lessons and experiences taken from it.

theme,plan,goals,experience,good will are key points!

[Druvatar De Bodemloze]

i disagree about sub-mods be pointless. they're pointless in a way that many times this sub-mods distort the original mod or bring nothing new, but at same time isnt pointless if you view this as a start for becoming a serious modder, acquiring skills and such.

key elements of make mod, novice or not is having a plan and stick to the end with it. if you start a mod than go with it and don't start or dont get involved with alot of mods,set your limits and choices. stay with 1-2 mods and finish it, doesnt matter if final result its perfect or not, what matters is the lessons and experiences taken from it.

theme,plan,goals,experience,good will are key points!

again I agree, see it I think a lot about personal style and approach to modding (my personal style is learning from "biting of more than you can chew!" so I dove right in with a full project! others have a different and more "controlled approach" (in a good way mind you) and prefer to start with additional developments on something that already has a track record!
Ataegina is right sub mods are a great way to "build" your skills without the negative stygma associated with a all around bad project (which I have personally had better myself greatly to overcome!) basically testing the waters "safely" before doing a "cannonball!"

[Ataegina]

well all styles have pros and cons, just matter of choose wich one gives you a better outcome. but i would like to mention that "controled approach" doesn't necessary means tight limits, but have wide approach and ambition but without losing control.

negative stygma and bad feedback its something always present here, theres always who will like and who will get pissed off and theres no way to avoid it. best way to minimize its be a modder "jack of all trades" be enable to do a little of everything and be discret and recruit a small team, manage it well, good ambient, no conflicts, clear objectives and thats it.

this is just my opinion of course.

[The Bruce]

If you are going to mod then mod what you want to mod.

Be it sub-mods, total conversion mods, minor or major mods, it all comes down to personal preference. However I think it is better to actually finish something and release it rather than add to the plethora of much heralded but ultimately doomed unfinished projects. Submods at least allow projects with less scope to be completed unlike some of the more ambitious stand-alone mods that never see the light of day.

[Druvatar De Bodemloze]

If you are going to mod then mod what you want to mod.

Be it sub-mods, total conversion mods, minor or major mods, it all comes down to personal preference. However I think it is better to actually finish something and release it rather than add to the plethora of much heralded but ultimately doomed unfinished projects. Submods at least allow projects with less scope to be completed unlike some of the more ambitious stand-alone mods that never see the light of day.

so truthful! but I will say if may be we who mod were a little more willing to work with each other rather than focusing on our own projects singularily perhaps more could be produced! what I mean: if you have skiills in Skinning help someone who does not! but that person has really good scripting skills and will help you with that ( cause like me! your scripting looks like a kindagardener spelling C~A~T) but I will say though I agree with Ataegina again it is best to try and become a "jack of all trades" because as is! most modders are left to thier own devices! So my point I hope that modders can (all of us, you, me, that guy in the shadows) would come to the realization we are all here to do the same "make a great game" better!

[The Bruce]

your scripting looks like a kindagardener spelling C~A~T

You have never seen any of my scripting.

It sounds like you resent the fact that not enough people are willing to help you with your mod. The question is why should they?

People will contribute to your mod for two reasons:

Firstly they want to see the mod completed, they are inspired by it and are willing to devote their time for the love of the project. This is surely the best reason.

Secondly, they are willing to trade skills, they help you and you help them with their project. This can work too if the trade is equitable. However it is unlikely that people would be willing to work on your mod if what you are offering is something they could already do or get someone else to do for free.

Personally, I would only work on any mod if it interested me. Like many modders I have insufficient time to work on my own project. I would consider sharing work that I have already done for my own projects but that is different to actually spending time doing work for other people on a mod that I'm not interested in.