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  1. #1
    Col. Tartleton's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default The Reestablishment of the Third Temple

    I don't want this to dwell on the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict. For the record they're both in the wrong. This is purely hypothetical speculation about the changes to Judaism and ignores the multinational issues. I'm purely talking about the Jewish faith.




    Okay. Does anyone have any idea at all what would happen within the Jewish religion?

    Basically the Temple could be built. No question there. Architecturally it would certainly rank alongside St. Peters and the Kaaba etc.

    Would there be a new Kohen Gadol? How? and Who?
    How will they reform the priesthood?
    Genetics? or Faith?
    Will they return to animal or any sort of sacrifices?
    Will they practice ritual washing?
    Will Jews pray towards the Temple?
    Will there be pilgrimages?
    What will the role of Rabbis be if the priesthood are not localized to the Temple itself?
    Will more Temples be built and will Judaism shift back towards a centralized religion such as Catholicism?

    Is there a danger of Judaism radicalizing elements through the return to a centralized authority? I've always seen Judaism as a less overt force because of its humble status as essentially a fallen civilization. Could a revitalization lead to an expansionist Zionist movement? Radical Judaism? Or is this unlikely due to the high level of civility and the outright changes in doctrine over time.


    Basically Judaism of today is not the Hellenized Judaism of Herods time or the Judaism of Solomon or Adam. What will this mean for any temple reconstruction?

    Build.
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    Default Re: The Reestablishment of the Third Temple

    it'd certainly be interesting
    it'd also provoke much heated debate amongst jewish groups.

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    Default Re: The Reestablishment of the Third Temple

    If I understand it correctly, Jews argue that the Third Temple cannot be built until the coming the Messiah and the saving of the world. So technically it is possible, but they wouldn't want to do it because they'd see it as jumping the gun to say the least.


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    Well from what i've read about the attempts to rebuild the temple, That everytime they try, Bad or wierd things happen, that prevents It.

    If your a Christian, or happen to be Catholic, Then you believe the New temple is the church built by the followers of christ after all, he did predict that it would be distroyed and lo and behold Anyways, whats the real point? The jewish Faith is hopelessly shatterd, the center piece of that faith is Gone forever. There split up into a dozen groups that do not like one another. Before the temple was messed up lol, The jews had a unified faith, But that was before they had there own religious reformation and basicly the whole thing is fire gutted from the inside out, I hardly see the point in being jewish. Most jews i meet tell me there athiest, Yet jewish. That line of thought would have never jived with the ancient jews, you where jewish all day and all the time, believed in yahweh and kept the religious laws, with out question.

    So since you no longer have your temple. and i frankly doubt one will ever be rebuilt, and if it is, it will be nouthing like the 2 before it, and the people who worsihp will not follow the same way as those who came before them, Why? Becouse they spent the years following the temples demise to Re-edit the bible and add new books, along with alot of other junk, and then trying to make sure nouthing that seem'd to point to christ as the messiah would ever be read by any one prefessing to be jewish or otherwise. So This is just my Opinion.

    That the large number of jews who are now atheist should tell you something maybe they don't know it themselfs or admit to it, But i highly doubt the reasions for being so are becouse of any enlightenment along the way. Rather that there faith has been put though a wood chipper, burned, re-done, and done again, plus reinterpretation have a dozen times. So tell me whats the point? after the temple was taken away, your like survivors of the titanic holding onto deck chairs and dining room tables flooting in the water maybe yahweh dosnt like gay pride paraides in down town jerusalem, First the temple what next?

    Quote Originally Posted by ♔Goodguy1066♔ View Post
    What SigOne said. We're still waiting for the Messiah, and if he does come then God'll probably tell us what to do (hopefully we won't be sacrificing poor innocent animals anymore).

    If the Messiah will come and the temple will be built, I don't think anybody will be worrying about politics anymore (what with it being Armageddon apparently)...
    Did the messiah really ever say he was going to come back and Rebuild the temple? or was that kinda like how the jews of the time expected jesus to expell the romans as a condision of being the messiah? We all know what happend to the handful of men after him who said they where and took the romans on And so far every attempt to rebuild the temple had led to deaths by strange happenings or something ealse.
    Last edited by Darth Red; October 14, 2010 at 08:29 AM. Reason: double post

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    Default Re: The Reestablishment of the Third Temple

    What SigOne said. We're still waiting for the Messiah, and if he does come then God'll probably tell us what to do (hopefully we won't be sacrificing poor innocent animals anymore).
    Is there a danger of Judaism radicalizing elements through the return to a centralized authority? I've always seen Judaism as a less overt force because of its humble status as essentially a fallen civilization. Could a revitalization lead to an expansionist Zionist movement? Radical Judaism? Or is this unlikely due to the high level of civility and the outright changes in doctrine over time.
    If the Messiah will come and the temple will be built, I don't think anybody will be worrying about politics anymore (what with it being Armageddon apparently)...
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    Both male and female walruses have tusks and have been observed using these overgrown teeth to help pull themselves out of the water.

    The mustached and long-tusked walrus is most often found near the Arctic Circle, lying on the ice with hundreds of companions. These marine mammals are extremely sociable, prone to loudly bellowing and snorting at one another, but are aggressive during mating season. With wrinkled brown and pink hides, walruses are distinguished by their long white tusks, grizzly whiskers, flat flipper, and bodies full of blubber.
    Walruses use their iconic long tusks for a variety of reasons, each of which makes their lives in the Arctic a bit easier. They use them to haul their enormous bodies out of frigid waters, thus their "tooth-walking" label, and to break breathing holes into ice from below. Their tusks, which are found on both males and females, can extend to about three feet (one meter), and are, in fact, large canine teeth, which grow throughout their lives. Male walruses, or bulls, also employ their tusks aggressively to maintain territory and, during mating season, to protect their harems of females, or cows.
    The walrus' other characteristic features are equally useful. As their favorite meals, particularly shellfish, are found near the dark ocean floor, walruses use their extremely sensitive whiskers, called mustacial vibrissae, as detection devices. Their blubbery bodies allow them to live comfortably in the Arctic region—walruses are capable of slowing their heartbeats in order to withstand the polar temperatures of the surrounding waters.
    The two subspecies of walrus are divided geographically. Atlantic walruses inhabit coastal areas from northeastern Canada to Greenland, while Pacific walruses inhabit the northern seas off Russia and Alaska, migrating seasonally from their southern range in the Bering Sea—where they are found on the pack ice in winter—to the Chukchi Sea. Female Pacific walruses give birth to calves during the spring migration north.
    Only Native Americans are currently allowed to hunt walruses, as the species' survival was threatened by past overhunting. Their tusks, oil, skin, and meat were so sought after in the 18th and 19th centuries that the walrus was hunted to extinction in the Gulf of St. Lawrence and around Sable Island, off the coast of Nova Scotia.

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    Default Re: The Reestablishment of the Third Temple

    You can be Jewish and Atheist. Judaism is a culture. Its just a set of ancient traditions covering everything from how to eat and dress to the nature of God. You could probably even be a Christian and a Jew. All the original Christians were but not all Christians are.

    However as the Temple was destroyed by the Romans isn't the idea that they can't rebuild it more of a tradition then anything else? I mean its not as though God appeared and said "You shall not build on this ground until I restore the line of Kings." In addition wouldn't they be pretty damn upset about the Dome of the Rock if they weren't supposed to build anything there.

    I would imagine there'd be a lot of problems. While the majority of Conservative and Orthodox Jews are against it as a taboo and most Reform and Progressive Judaism feel like Judaism has evolved for the better there's still a decent chunk of Zionists (and Christians almost disturbingly, at least their reasoning) who seek to rebuild it. Their motives are their own and don't reflect the larger Judaism but if they rebuild it without the general support what then? Will Islam go "full retard" and start trying to wipe them out and destroy the Temple or dedicate it to Islam and then get the Jews all wild and the Christians will hop in to stay relevant. It could potentially collapse the still relatively fragile state of Israel.

    Heck then it might actually kick off the Apocalypse...
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    Default Re: The Reestablishment of the Third Temple

    Now I'm all in favor of the appocalypse but I need a few more years to prepare (I need a wife, a dog, and a shotgun first).

    I think that it might actually bring some relevance back to the Jewish faith, because frankly modern Jews seem to be less united to one another than Islam and Christianity. I think that having a high priest again could be a great boon for Judaism as it would give them the opportunity to come together and reconcile the many doctrines of modern Judaism. It would also help them to be seen as more of a nation within whatever country they are living (not unlike Catholicism is in some countries). Lastly I think that if their leader is in any way similar to the Dali Lama or the Pope then he would likely be a good thing, as both of my examples have done wonders for their faiths' international prestiege.

    Of course this is all hypothetical, we have no way of knowing what would happen or if Iran has enough nukes to stop it from happening in the first place.
    Glory is fleeting but obscurity is forever.-Napoleon Bonaparte

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    Default Re: The Reestablishment of the Third Temple

    Quote Originally Posted by Col. Tartleton View Post
    You can be Jewish and Atheist. Judaism is a culture. Its just a set of ancient traditions covering everything from how to eat and dress to the nature of God. You could probably even be a Christian and a Jew. All the original Christians were but not all Christians are.

    However as the Temple was destroyed by the Romans isn't the idea that they can't rebuild it more of a tradition then anything else? I mean its not as though God appeared and said "You shall not build on this ground until I restore the line of Kings." In addition wouldn't they be pretty damn upset about the Dome of the Rock if they weren't supposed to build anything there.

    I would imagine there'd be a lot of problems. While the majority of Conservative and Orthodox Jews are against it as a taboo and most Reform and Progressive Judaism feel like Judaism has evolved for the better there's still a decent chunk of Zionists (and Christians almost disturbingly, at least their reasoning) who seek to rebuild it. Their motives are their own and don't reflect the larger Judaism but if they rebuild it without the general support what then? Will Islam go "full retard" and start trying to wipe them out and destroy the Temple or dedicate it to Islam and then get the Jews all wild and the Christians will hop in to stay relevant. It could potentially collapse the still relatively fragile state of Israel.

    Heck then it might actually kick off the Apocalypse...
    Go's to show that you truely don't understand the faith, nore do those who attemopt to eat there cake and have it to. you kinda made my point thank you

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    Default Re: The Reestablishment of the Third Temple

    ".....there's still a decent chunk of Zionists (and Christians almost disturbingly, at least their reasoning) who seek to rebuild it. "

    Col Tartleton,

    Yes, its true that many " Christians " believe that when the thousand year reign begins after the coming again of Jesus Christ the Temple and its rituals will be restored. Why they think that I cannot for the life of me understand their mode of thinking nor where they get it from because it is certainly not in the Bible.

    What the Temple and its rituals can do will be no more than it already did, that pointing to Jesus Christ and on the whole failing. Never mind that, the Temples were built to an exact template given by God just as every single ritual around them was no more than a shadow and type of the One who has now come, so who would these rituals be for?

    Animal blood covered externally the Israelites so that until the next ritual they were externally clean. Jesus Christ cleansed the true Israelites internally with His own blood, the born again, and it is to this that men and women can enter heaven not the effects of external cleansing.

    Jesus Christ the Redeemer, the Messias, is not of the order of Aaron, rather the order of Melchizedek and when He rose to glory it was that order that replaced the old Aaronic priesthood for all them that He washed with His blood. Through that order each born again Christian is not only themselves a priest but also a brother and sister of Christ Jesus our Lord.

    The Jews were never saved by ritual but by the very faith that saves us all. That is the faith of Jesus Christ which is unto all and upon all them that believe and they cannot be that unless they are born again. If this temple was built and only after the return of Jesus Christ, for there is no other Messias, faith would become null and void since all would see Him, then it wouldn't be faith but works.

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    Default Re: The Reestablishment of the Third Temple

    Quote Originally Posted by basics View Post
    ".....there's still a decent chunk of Zionists (and Christians almost disturbingly, at least their reasoning) who seek to rebuild it. "

    Col Tartleton,

    Yes, its true that many " Christians " believe that when the thousand year reign begins after the coming again of Jesus Christ the Temple and its rituals will be restored. Why they think that I cannot for the life of me understand their mode of thinking nor where they get it from because it is certainly not in the Bible.

    What the Temple and its rituals can do will be no more than it already did, that pointing to Jesus Christ and on the whole failing. Never mind that, the Temples were built to an exact template given by God just as every single ritual around them was no more than a shadow and type of the One who has now come, so who would these rituals be for?

    Animal blood covered externally the Israelites so that until the next ritual they were externally clean. Jesus Christ cleansed the true Israelites internally with His own blood, the born again, and it is to this that men and women can enter heaven not the effects of external cleansing.

    Jesus Christ the Redeemer, the Messias, is not of the order of Aaron, rather the order of Melchizedek and when He rose to glory it was that order that replaced the old Aaronic priesthood for all them that He washed with His blood. Through that order each born again Christian is not only themselves a priest but also a brother and sister of Christ Jesus our Lord.

    The Jews were never saved by ritual but by the very faith that saves us all. That is the faith of Jesus Christ which is unto all and upon all them that believe and they cannot be that unless they are born again. If this temple was built and only after the return of Jesus Christ, for there is no other Messias, faith would become null and void since all would see Him, then it wouldn't be faith but works.
    basics, i've got a question for you;

    some ppl/conspiracy theorists/religious folks posit that the jewish messiah may also be the 'antichrist'
    what do you think?

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    Default Re: The Reestablishment of the Third Temple

    so how will u know this messiah really is the messiah?
    seems like an awful lot of things on the checklist (some of which are nigh onimpossible)

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    Default Re: The Reestablishment of the Third Temple

    Quote Originally Posted by Exarch View Post
    so how will u know this messiah really is the messiah?
    seems like an awful lot of things on the checklist (some of which are nigh onimpossible)
    Do you know what's also "nigh onimpossible"? The return of the Messiah. That's the whole point of miracles...
    Quote Originally Posted by Pøntifex Maximus View Post
    The temple should be excavated. I'd be much more interested in preserving the historical legacy of the site than donating the square footage to the worship of a fictitious deity. Also it shouldn't be rebuilt because all the crazies of the world would herald it as symbolizing something it does not.
    Is nobody listening to me? Those people who tried rebuilding the temple themselves with no Messiah failed because they did not have the backing of mainstream Judaism nor, of course, God. If the Messiah will come, that's the end of "that fictitious God" and "silly naive religious people". The Temple will be rebuilt and nobody's going to protest because it turns out God is real and if they know their bible protesting won't quite help them.
    Of course, the word of the day is IF. The only way the temple will be built is if the Messiah comes, so all you atheists can stop worrying...
    Last edited by ♔Goodguy1066♔; October 14, 2010 at 03:33 PM.
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    Both male and female walruses have tusks and have been observed using these overgrown teeth to help pull themselves out of the water.

    The mustached and long-tusked walrus is most often found near the Arctic Circle, lying on the ice with hundreds of companions. These marine mammals are extremely sociable, prone to loudly bellowing and snorting at one another, but are aggressive during mating season. With wrinkled brown and pink hides, walruses are distinguished by their long white tusks, grizzly whiskers, flat flipper, and bodies full of blubber.
    Walruses use their iconic long tusks for a variety of reasons, each of which makes their lives in the Arctic a bit easier. They use them to haul their enormous bodies out of frigid waters, thus their "tooth-walking" label, and to break breathing holes into ice from below. Their tusks, which are found on both males and females, can extend to about three feet (one meter), and are, in fact, large canine teeth, which grow throughout their lives. Male walruses, or bulls, also employ their tusks aggressively to maintain territory and, during mating season, to protect their harems of females, or cows.
    The walrus' other characteristic features are equally useful. As their favorite meals, particularly shellfish, are found near the dark ocean floor, walruses use their extremely sensitive whiskers, called mustacial vibrissae, as detection devices. Their blubbery bodies allow them to live comfortably in the Arctic region—walruses are capable of slowing their heartbeats in order to withstand the polar temperatures of the surrounding waters.
    The two subspecies of walrus are divided geographically. Atlantic walruses inhabit coastal areas from northeastern Canada to Greenland, while Pacific walruses inhabit the northern seas off Russia and Alaska, migrating seasonally from their southern range in the Bering Sea—where they are found on the pack ice in winter—to the Chukchi Sea. Female Pacific walruses give birth to calves during the spring migration north.
    Only Native Americans are currently allowed to hunt walruses, as the species' survival was threatened by past overhunting. Their tusks, oil, skin, and meat were so sought after in the 18th and 19th centuries that the walrus was hunted to extinction in the Gulf of St. Lawrence and around Sable Island, off the coast of Nova Scotia.

  13. #13
    Their Law's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: The Reestablishment of the Third Temple

    Seems a shame to build a presumably architectural marvel only for it to be destroyed in a hypothetical Armageddon, such a waste of time..
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    Default Re: The Reestablishment of the Third Temple

    it'd be more of a pity if they decided to build it on the dome of the rock; that's a historical artefact right there

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    Default Re: The Reestablishment of the Third Temple

    The temple should be excavated. I'd be much more interested in preserving the historical legacy of the site than donating the square footage to the worship of a fictitious deity. Also it shouldn't be rebuilt because all the crazies of the world would herald it as symbolizing something it does not.

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    Default Re: The Reestablishment of the Third Temple

    Quote Originally Posted by Pøntifex Maximus View Post
    Also it shouldn't be rebuilt because all the crazies of the world would herald it as symbolizing something it does not.
    Nice xenophobia there; the same applied to the re-establishment of Israel (it should've only been reestablished with the coming of the Messiah), but looks like people aren't going nuts over it.


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    Default Re: The Reestablishment of the Third Temple

    Quote Originally Posted by SigniferOne View Post
    Nice xenophobia there; the same applied to the re-establishment of Israel (it should've only been reestablished with the coming of the Messiah), but looks like people aren't going nuts over it.
    I'd say they kind of are... but hey, that's just opinion.
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    Default Re: The Reestablishment of the Third Temple

    Quote Originally Posted by SigniferOne View Post
    Nice xenophobia there; the same applied to the re-establishment of Israel (it should've only been reestablished with the coming of the Messiah), but looks like people aren't going nuts over it.
    You say that as if legitimately fearing nutjobs who think the world will end if the temple is rebuilt is a bad thing. I do assume, however by xenophobia you mean religiphobia, since nowhere in my posts did I mention a fear of foreigners (ie, xenophobia). Sig, have their been any recent events you can think of that would make fearing religious extremists perfectly valid?

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    Default Re: The Reestablishment of the Third Temple

    Quote Originally Posted by Pøntifex Maximus View Post
    Sig, have their been any recent events you can think of that would make fearing religious extremists perfectly valid?
    Christian and Jewish religious extremists? Not really. They're kina the ones defending you against those 'other' religious extremists, while the secular left have lost all moral backbone (as is to be expected), and are practically presenting themselves as sheep for slaughter.


    "If ye love wealth greater than liberty,
    the tranquility of servitude greater than
    the animating contest for freedom, go
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    and may posterity forget that ye were
    our countrymen."
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    Default Re: The Reestablishment of the Third Temple

    Quote Originally Posted by SigniferOne View Post
    Christian and Jewish religious extremists?
    Absolutely.

    They're kina the ones defending you against those 'other' religious extremists, while the secular left have lost all moral backbone (as is to be expected), and are practically presenting themselves as sheep for slaughter.


    I can't tell if you're being serious?

    Can they protect me from themselves? Currently the US government is defending me from muslim extremists to the best of their ability. Fortunately the christian fundamentalists aren't militant like the muslims, but I think sometimes they would like to be. Muslim extremist = christian extremists = jewish extremists. They all have the potential to be violent and have been violent in the past.
    Last edited by Pontifex Maximus; October 14, 2010 at 04:46 PM.

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