Tips to failing in a campaign

[vinnyvedivici]

first off kudos to the mod team and everyone who helped with this mod . I have been playing RTW for years and this is without a doubt my favorite mod ever. (imo this is better than any CA TW game)


So this leads me to my interesting question....does anyone wish to offer me advise on how to lose a campaign. Maybe you have made an exciting choice (attack Carthage as Egypt and ignore Seleucids?) or just played as a faction and not matched the expansion progress of other nations. Or perhaps you have house rules by which you play and it makes the game challenging.

Whatever the case, I look forward to hearing from you



If you are curious, I prefer to play on VH/VH because it has ridiculous bonuses to the AI, and I think somewhat stifles my economy. I can not remember my last loss to AI on battlefield so I choose to auto-resolve (esp on VH you tend to find your "invincible" army can be beaten, and can take extraordinary casualties)

Some things I do (that maybe I need to stop doing lol)

I avoid at all costs losing money to the scripts, but like to have 150-180k in the bank, always have great transportation networks, few armies (with balanced/realistic composition) and with the exception of Sparta tend to develop economically save for a few military cities and spread slowly to let the AI grow.

I have played all factions except
Cimbri (with so much room to grow before encountering my foes I am worried I will steamroll), Seleucid (I personally get a lot of satisfaction micromanaging my empire and don't prefer to start huge even though I love their unit choices),
Sarmatia (I sort of feel that corner nations are a bit too easy for me as I get a nice safe wall),
Carthaginian dogs (sorry but my Italian blood can't let me ever play as them....ever)
This isn't to say that I wouldn't play any of these (even Carthage if it will make me lose) but that I just have not found a reason to choose them.


Thanks in advance! And again awesome job!

[Magic Man]

Well in all the campaigns ive played so far, its the Seleucids who get beaten up the worst.

Maybe try playing as them?


Ive also never given them a whirl because i hate the thought of being handed the reins of a large, poorly managed empire.

[MDT]

Well in all the campaigns ive played so far, its the Seleucids who get beaten up the worst.

Maybe try playing as them?


Ive also never given them a whirl because i hate the thought of being handed the reins of a large, poorly managed empire.

Thats what makes them a bit harder though.

But for an experienced player there is no "play me and you'll loose"-faction, even Seleucid as you only have to conquer egypt in the first 10 turns ...

You can only try to make your life harder with house rules like
- never to retrain armies(to fill them up, of course you should upgrade armor) but merge them with fresh recruted units.
- don't defend on bridges
- don't defend on town squares
- generally don't try to exploit flaws of the AI you are aware of
- don't rush
etc...

[Jaytee]

You actively want to lose a campaign?? This is the weirdest request I have heard on this forum. haha

To say the obvious you could just delete your entire army and deletable buildings in all cities, have the tax set high to revolt and send all your generals/family members into the enemies territory. But I feel this is not the kind of advice nor the type of failure you're after.

When you say you fail, in what way exactly do you want to fail??? Sorry for not understanding.

[MDT]

You actively want to lose a campaign?? This is the weirdest request I have heard on this forum. haha

To say the obvious you could just delete your entire army and deletable buildings in all cities, have the tax set high to revolt and send all your generals/family members into the enemies territory. But I feel this is not the kind of advice nor the type of failure you're after.

When you say you fail, in what way exactly do you want to fail??? Sorry for not understanding.

I guess he wan'ts a campaign where he is actually in danger of loosing it though he plays at his best.

[Ybbon]

well playing VH/VH is probably not helping, the hardest campaign is h/h or h/vh - something weird happens with bonuses on vh/vh.

Also, at what point do you want to start losing? You said you have good transportation, good but few armies and 150-180k in the bank, so at this point you have built a decent base, it's dead easy to lose in the first 10 turns but you must be much further than that.

[Siegfriedfr]

first off kudos to the mod team and everyone who helped with this mod . I have been playing RTW for years and this is without a doubt my favorite mod ever. (imo this is better than any CA TW game)


So this leads me to my interesting question....does anyone wish to offer me advise on how to lose a campaign. Maybe you have made an exciting choice (attack Carthage as Egypt and ignore Seleucids?) or just played as a faction and not matched the expansion progress of other nations. Or perhaps you have house rules by which you play and it makes the game challenging.

Whatever the case, I look forward to hearing from you



If you are curious, I prefer to play on VH/VH because it has ridiculous bonuses to the AI, and I think somewhat stifles my economy. I can not remember my last loss to AI on battlefield so I choose to auto-resolve (esp on VH you tend to find your "invincible" army can be beaten, and can take extraordinary casualties)

Some things I do (that maybe I need to stop doing lol)

I avoid at all costs losing money to the scripts, but like to have 150-180k in the bank, always have great transportation networks, few armies (with balanced/realistic composition) and with the exception of Sparta tend to develop economically save for a few military cities and spread slowly to let the AI grow.

I have played all factions except
Cimbri (with so much room to grow before encountering my foes I am worried I will steamroll), Seleucid (I personally get a lot of satisfaction micromanaging my empire and don't prefer to start huge even though I love their unit choices),
Sarmatia (I sort of feel that corner nations are a bit too easy for me as I get a nice safe wall),
Carthaginian dogs (sorry but my Italian blood can't let me ever play as them....ever)
This isn't to say that I wouldn't play any of these (even Carthage if it will make me lose) but that I just have not found a reason to choose them.


Thanks in advance! And again awesome job!

Destroy all your buildings on turn one, disband all your units, put your generals on a boat.

Wait.

[vinnyvedivici]

Destroy all your buildings on turn one, disband all your units, put your generals on a boat.

Wait.

I was referring to being beaten by the AI rather than self-genocide lol

well playing VH/VH is probably not helping, the hardest campaign is h/h or h/vh - something weird happens with bonuses on vh/vh.

Also, at what point do you want to start losing? You said you have good transportation, good but few armies and 150-180k in the bank, so at this point you have built a decent base, it's dead easy to lose in the first 10 turns but you must be much further than that.

Ok I was under the impression that vh/vh would make the bonuses to campaign even worse, but I think I will attempt h/vh.

I always use the initial army that is given to me for defense of my lands, and build roads asap (turn 1 if possible) I also always upgrade them if possible, mostly due to my play style and preference. With the initial army and high taxes you end up with 100k within 10 turns, even while queing every city. Again, this may be the result of building infrastructure and cheaper items in the beginning (roads are cheep-roughly 1k/turn compared to 2500/turn wells or 7k/turn trade routes)


Good advice thus far, and I am liking the Brittania idea!

[Striker]

I was referring to being beaten by the AI rather than self-genocide lol



Ok I was under the impression that vh/vh would make the bonuses to campaign even worse, but I think I will attempt h/vh.

I always use the initial army that is given to me for defense of my lands, and build roads asap (turn 1 if possible) I also always upgrade them if possible, mostly due to my play style and preference. With the initial army and high taxes you end up with 100k within 10 turns, even while queing every city. Again, this may be the result of building infrastructure and cheaper items in the beginning (roads are cheep-roughly 1k/turn compared to 2500/turn wells or 7k/turn trade routes)


Good advice thus far, and I am liking the Brittania idea!

If I am not mistaken on VH Campaign there is a bug that gives you the same bonuses as the AI.
I'm curious about that Britannia idea as well, not sure but I think you WILL lose the campaign if you go there

That idea of making the leader have economic depression and land in chaos is excellent, I will try that.
Try seleucids but don't try to take anybody's cities in the first 25 years and have 1 army for each faction that you're at defending against with no elites at all.
Also all those armies in the field NONE on a city nor fort and without generals. (this on those 15 years without attack)

[vinnyvedivici]

I am attempting C-Rob's idea, and have just reached Brittania, this may be over soon lol. I am playing H/VH and as Rome, and was auto battling my battles to this point, but now that I have landed I will be attempting to save my faction!



For those of you who are curious as to what happens if you, as Rome, abandon Italy and head for the Isles, here's how it went down:

536 A.U.C.
Gaius Flaminus Nepus Lost 2200 men in battle to Hannibal, only wounding 600 Carthaginians, and fled to Arretium. As a result of this loss, the Enraged Quintus Fabius Maximus and his sons prepare for an expedition to Carthage, to raze it to the ground! That winter, all Roman Legions board ships and set course for North Africa. Without the Pontifix Maximus to keep them in line, every governor in the Roman provinces raises their taxes to the max, upsetting the populous. Ariminum and Arretium are besieged by Carthage, and with the Roman army at sea, there is no aid coming.

537 A.U.C.
Emporiae, Tarentum and Crotona revolt, having lost faith in their leaders grand scheme to invade Carthage itself, they choose to fend for themselves. Hannibal occupies Arretium, slaying Gaius but sparing the citizens. Off the coast of North Africa Carthaginian ships run into Decimus Fabius Maximus and his invasion force, sinking the entire legion. Later that winter, General Quintus Flavis Flaccus and his legion from Greece are sunk in another naval engagement with Carthage the Roman rebels take Rhegion and besiege Cannae

538 A.U.C.
With Italy looking precarious, and half of his invasion force at the bottom of Mare Nostrum, Quintus Fabius Maximus tells his navigator to set a course for home, only to be blown through the Strait of Gibralter in a freak storm! Rome is besieged by Abascantus Tunis and the Rebels mercifully break off their siege of Cannae.

539 A.U.C.
Lucius Vibius Atellus raises a legion in Capua to defend Rome, but not in time as both Rome and Ariminum are occupied by Carthage, while Cannae flips to the Roman Rebellion. Lucius is still able to free Rome, as the Carthagian army left a token garrison, and he prepares his defenses against the sure onslaught.

540 A.U.C.
Capua revolts as well, and Lucius Vibius Atellus is left with Rome as the only Roman Provence on the peninsula. Lilybaeum riots, killing Publius Cornelius Scipio, but doesn't revolt-Sicily is safe from the Rebels for now. Meanwhile the Roman fleet is following the wrong star, and heading north around the coast of Hispania in a vain attempt to return home.

541 A.U.C.
Lucius Vibius Atellus attacks the Carthaginian armies encamped outside of Rome, and in a single night separates and defeats them. Menessa revolts, Dyrrhachium is bribed by Macedon, and both legions of Quintus Fabius Maximus and Publius Cornelius Scipio land safely in Britain.

542 A.U.C.
Realizing they are more lost than Christopher Columbus, and after scouting with spy revealed their landing was in heavily occupied territory, the wayward Roman Legions put to sea once more. This time landing in Ireland. Meanwhile, Lucius Vibius Atellus strikes back at Carthage, defeating Abascantus Tunis, the barbarian who took Rome, and besieging Ariminum. Lucius' rash siege and lack of scouting caused him to underestimate the strong Carthaginian presence, and is defeated by Hannibal.

543 A.U.C.
With no large settlements to resupply on the entire Irish Isle, and weary troops, Quintus and Scipio head for Wales, where they find a lightly defended native settlement and capture it. Meanwhile, the Roman Rebels have besieged Rome, and Lucius with the remainder of his Legion fall in battle as Rome is occupied.

[Ybbon]

I am attempting C-Rob's idea, and have just reached Brittania, this may be over soon lol. I am playing H/VH and as Rome, and was auto battling my battles to this point, but now that I have landed I will be attempting to save my faction!



For those of you who are curious as to what happens if you, as Rome, abandon Italy and head for the Isles, here's how it went down:

536 A.U.C.
Gaius Flaminus Nepus Lost 2200 men in battle to Hannibal, only wounding 600 Carthaginians, and fled to Arretium. As a result of this loss, the Enraged Quintus Fabius Maximus and his sons prepare for an expedition to Carthage, to raze it to the ground! That winter, all Roman Legions board ships and set course for North Africa. Without the Pontifix Maximus to keep them in line, every governor in the Roman provinces raises their taxes to the max, upsetting the populous. Ariminum and Arretium are besieged by Carthage, and with the Roman army at sea, there is no aid coming.

537 A.U.C.
Emporiae, Tarentum and Crotona revolt, having lost faith in their leaders grand scheme to invade Carthage itself, they choose to fend for themselves. Hannibal occupies Arretium, slaying Gaius but sparing the citizens. Off the coast of North Africa Carthaginian ships run into Decimus Fabius Maximus and his invasion force, sinking the entire legion. Later that winter, General Quintus Flavis Flaccus and his legion from Greece are sunk in another naval engagement with Carthage the Roman rebels take Rhegion and besiege Cannae

538 A.U.C.
With Italy looking precarious, and half of his invasion force at the bottom of Mare Nostrum, Quintus Fabius Maximus tells his navigator to set a course for home, only to be blown through the Strait of Gibralter in a freak storm! Rome is besieged by Abascantus Tunis and the Rebels mercifully break off their siege of Cannae.

539 A.U.C.
Lucius Vibius Atellus raises a legion in Capua to defend Rome, but not in time as both Rome and Ariminum are occupied by Carthage, while Cannae flips to the Roman Rebellion. Lucius is still able to free Rome, as the Carthagian army left a token garrison, and he prepares his defenses against the sure onslaught.

540 A.U.C.
Capua revolts as well, and Lucius Vibius Atellus is left with Rome as the only Roman Provence on the peninsula. Lilybaeum riots, killing Publius Cornelius Scipio, but doesn't revolt-Sicily is safe from the Rebels for now. Meanwhile the Roman fleet is following the wrong star, and heading north around the coast of Hispania in a vain attempt to return home.

541 A.U.C.
Lucius Vibius Atellus attacks the Carthaginian armies encamped outside of Rome, and in a single night separates and defeats them. Menessa revolts, Dyrrhachium is bribed by Macedon, and both legions of Quintus Fabius Maximus and Publius Cornelius Scipio land safely in Britain.

542 A.U.C.
Realizing they are more lost than Christopher Columbus, and after scouting with spy revealed their landing was in heavily occupied territory, the wayward Roman Legions put to sea once more. This time landing in Ireland. Meanwhile, Lucius Vibius Atellus strikes back at Carthage, defeating Abascantus Tunis, the barbarian who took Rome, and besieging Ariminum. Lucius' rash siege and lack of scouting caused him to underestimate the strong Carthaginian presence, and is defeated by Hannibal.

543 A.U.C.
With no large settlements to resupply on the entire Irish Isle, and weary troops, Quintus and Scipio head for Wales, where they find a lightly defended native settlement and capture it. Meanwhile, the Roman Rebels have besieged Rome, and Lucius with the remainder of his Legion fall in battle as Rome is occupied.

He can make an AAR and call it "The Tales of Julius O'Ceasar and the Leprachaun Legion"

[C-Rob]

conquer britain as rome as soon as possible and abandon italy to carthagian and roman reb's and turtle there and then striek out at turn 100.

No imperial refrms for you!

or any useful units at all really...


What CAN you train there?

I haven't been there yet premarian.

damn I'm trying it!

Sounds fun as hell.

[coldfusion21]

If you want to be in a difficult situation you can try this : chose a faction and expand it by taking rebel regions until you have like 10-15 regions then send your faction leader in forest and stop building anything.
Wait a few turns until he gets the lands in chaos and economic depression trait, then those traits will spread like a plague to all generals. I think they give +6 unrest, tax penalty and a lot of - morale on battlefield.
Then try to save your nation without sending the faction leader and generals on a suicide naval mission.

[Spike]

LOL! please write that on AAR!!! very2 HELL FUNNY

[Ybbon]

It will be up there with Achtung - Peasants! - extremely funny AAR too! http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=394352

[NerZhulen]

This is the most ridiculous topic I have ever seen.
Tips for loosing? are you serious?

well my tip is: do not train any units at all, that should do it...

[Chris Death]

This is the most ridiculous topic I have ever seen.
Tips for loosing? are you serious?

well my tip is: do not train any units at all, that should do it...

I don't understand - weren't exactly YOU complaining all the time about the game being too
easy trying to find a challenge?

The OP is just thinking similar to you with the slight difference that he is trying to make the best out
of it and go for a challenge instead of exploiting ai to it's weakest points.

@vinnyvedivici - i like that summary of how things were going lately - you should really do an AAR out of it.

~S~ CD

[vinnyvedivici]

as for an update on the Roman Migration:

the Roman Rebels own all of what Rome started out with, and then some, which should lead to quite the game when (if) I am able to ever get to the mainland again.

Initially I took out the rebel settlement, but then realized I needed to land and take out the Belgae territory first, as otherwise you will have to wait for the city to grow otherwise. The fact that you remove a competitor on the island helps as well.

It is ironic that the concept was wait 100 turns before moving to the mainland, as it is looking like it may take that long just to take the island (an easier way would be to hold on to your Roman settlements as long as possible rather than forcing rebellions as it is incredibly hard to stay out of the red once you are isolated in Britain.) I also would encourage the building of mercenary barracks as Roman troops have too expensive upkeep and attrition alone from the barbarian swarms can bankrupt you

[Timefool]

You never said what units can be recruited in Britain pre reform. Is it the allied polybians or are they not there?

[vinnyvedivici]

You never said what units can be recruited in Britain pre reform. Is it the allied polybians or are they not there?

pre-reform you can only recruit the allied republican cohort, velites, and equites, however in Belgdunon you get the veneti skirmisher as well as these three.


Recap:
When I last checked in the year was 543, the daring Quintus Flaminus Maximus and Publius Cornelius Scipio had just captured a foothold in Britania. Rome fell to the Roman Revolution, and the only holdings still under control were Corsica, Sardina and Sicily.

544 A.U.C.
Quintus receives news of the political situation in the Roman Republic, his family has lost their patrician status and never allowed to return. While slightly unsettling news, there are far more troublesome things on Quintus' mind. He had enough foresight to bring his family, and more importantly, over 160,000 coin. Later in the winter, Quintus officially makes the capitol of his holdings in Britain, and is cut off from the remaining provinces in the Mare Nostrum, as they support the new senate.

545 A.U.C.
Determined to make the best of his situation, the entire fleet is ordered to be sunk to save money, and mines are built in a vain attempt to stop the bleeding of his coffers (currently losing over 7000 a season.) Publius Cornelius Scipio convinces Quintus to allow him to increase their holdings, and sets out for Isurium. Winter sets in, and scouts reveal a large native encampment nearby Moridunon forcing Scipio to return and camp in the valley outside the city.

546 A.U.C.
With the barbarians traveling south towards the Belgae city of Belgdunon, and in a desperate financial position, Scipio sets out again for Isurium, and besieges it. Quintus encourages population growth with the intent of replacing the casualties that will surely happen in this campaign.

547 A.U.C.
Scouts near Belgdunon no longer spot the native armies, and report back to Quintus that they must have been destroyed by the two full Belgae armys. Further scouting doesn't reveal them in Roman lands, but with no barrier between Quintus and the Belgae now and Scipio outnumbering Isurium in the seige 4:1 1000 troops are recalled to Moridunon for support. That winter the natives show up near Isurium and attack Scipio's encampment. This is sure to be a key battle for the New Republic, as 2/3 of her troops are committed, and there is no way to replenish their ranks.

Outnumbered 2,144 to 4,843, Scipio's men hold the crest of their hill against General Cobrovillos, their Pillium devestating his army as they charge up the hill. In pitched battle, and with reinforcements marching quickly, Scipio orders his three units of reserve Triarii to charge the weak left flank, while flanking the left with all his cavalry and charging from behind. This routes them and the Triarii begin to roll the entire rebel line, meanwhile Scipio and his cavalry return back behind their lines. General Venermidos' men approach the bottom of the hill, and begin to advance towards the Roman line, while Cobrovillos' broken men route through them. Scipio, realizing that the resolve of his opponent is weakened by the route of their friends orders his men out of their defensive stance and in an all out charge down the hill. The final reinforcements from the city under the command of Melos begin to close in as well, and Scipio sends his velites and calvery in an attempt to lure them away from attacking the back of his lines, which are fully engaged. Unfortunatly, only half of the city reinforcements chase after the velites and cavalry with the remainder headed straight for the backside of Scipio's main battle line. As a last ditch effort, Scipio sends his cavalry to engage the final enemy reinforcements. By this point, half of Scipio's Legion has been wounded or slain, Cobrovillos' army is either dead or routed, Venermidos' army has suffered enough causalities that they no longer outnumber the Legion, but seem to show no point in breaking, and Melos' troops are fresh and barely weakened. The battle is lost, but Scipio is dead set on creating a Pyrrhic victory for the barbarians, and orders his triarii to disengage and focus solely on General Venermidos while he repeatedly charges his personal bodyguard into the back ranks of their line. Meanwhile, Melos wipes out the cavalry and surrounds the velites making short work of them. He begins to advance once more on Scipio's line, and all seems lost. However, Mars was with the Romans that day, as General Venermidos fell to the triarii just as Scipio charges into the back line one final time. This was enough to route the very center of the line and Venermidos' army begins to collapse. Melos arrives at the crest of the hill and begins to pepper Scipio's men with missile fire. With all of Venermidos' men routed, and Melos charging down the hill, a call for general retreat is made, with a forlorn hope of two maniples remaining behind to slow the barbarians. At the end of the day, Scipio escapes with 534 men, having lost 1,610 men. The barbarians are victorious, but it was a bloody win for them having lost 3,170 warriors, and left with only 1,130 men.

548 A.U.C.
Realizing that he is going to need any help he can get, Quintus gives the hands of his two daughters in marriage (after refusing many suitors on his voyage.) Along with the 3 children who have reached adulthood, the Romans are stuck with too many chiefs and not enough Indians. Scipio promises Quintus that he can, and will take Isurium, and that their only hope is to strike before the rebels levy more troops. Scipio sets out with the entire remainder of the Roman force, Quintus remains behind to govern the city, while every son, grandson, and in-law sets out with Scipio.

549 A.U.C.
Melos attacks Scipio's besieging force and is killed, Scipio enslaves Isurium. The New Roman Republic now stretches from the Irish Sea to the North Sea, and for the first time in 4 years a profit of 130 is made. The situation is still precarious for New Rome, its coffers are down 100,000 gold and its troops number only 1,166. There is light at the end of the tunnel for the Maximus family, as their capitol has grown and they are taking steps to build barracks to train new Roman soldiers. Things will not be easy however, as the Belgae begin to stir as the rebels are severely weakened.