Playing Rome in RSII – A Basic Survival Guide

[wvswem]

Do you already know when the next update for the first 10 years will be? I am anxious to read more of your guide.

[Aristotle's Folly]

Do you already know when the next update for the first 10 years will be? I am anxious to read more of your guide.

Sorry for the delay. I'm right now sitting in class - a very boring class. I have three more hours here on campus and a bit of homework today, so probably tomorrow.

I've just been busy.

~ Dani ~

[CliffBarney]

Thanks a million Dani! After a few false starts on the Roman campaign, I finally managed to get going pretty good; the last time I played -- a couple of weeks ago -- I held 85 regions and was building up my legions in preparation for the big 2nd rebellion. Then it seemed to get too tedious, and I guess I lost interest.

I managed to defeat Hannibal nearly every time -- not knowing that I was cheating by avoiding the ambush. Thanks a lot Apple!

I guess that, if I were to gather the energy to try the whole campaign again from the beginning, I would definitely use your building-quie tactic. I did spend a LOT of time & effort building the economy, and was rather dismayed to find that much of my hard-earned money (above about 200K denairi) was being skimmed off by the scripting, and that my governors were picking up undesirable traits by living with too much luxury. I usually ended each turn with over 50K, and sometimes with over 150K, even though I was building something in each and every one of my cities.

One of my main economy-enhancing tactics has been to maximize the population. I've posted this a couple of times on other threads, but it seems that nobody else shares my enthusiasm. My largest city is Carthage, with a population of about 136K and still growing, and an income of 25-30K or thereabouts.

-- Cliff in Virginia

[apple]

Not exactly cheating, more making much easier for yourself. I myself always go for the ambush option, seems far more realistic.

[DarthLazy]

How much money do you need????? I make it a habit to exterminate anything showing a blue or red face at the time of conquest and found the penalty to be minimal.

[rory o'kane]

I generally only exterminate where the Romans REALLY did a number on a place - Carthage and Corinth (both in 146 BC - not a good year for non-Romans) spring to mind immediately. Jerusalem as well - everything else gets occupied/enslaved as I see fit (generally, civilized places get occupied, barbarians get enslaved (as a rule of thumb)).

[Aristotle's Folly]

First, I apologize for being away these last two days. The semester is wrapping down and my class work is catching up with me. As I noted in an earlier post, I worked a lot of hours recently (and played RSII a bit ) which put me behind on some of my work. I have class in twenty minutes and again early this afternoon. After that, I have the weekend off.

Thanks a million Dani! After a few false starts on the Roman campaign, I finally managed to get going pretty good; the last time I played -- a couple of weeks ago -- I held 85 regions and was building up my legions in preparation for the big 2nd rebellion. Then it seemed to get too tedious, and I guess I lost interest.

I managed to defeat Hannibal nearly every time -- not knowing that I was cheating by avoiding the ambush. Thanks a lot Apple!

I guess that, if I were to gather the energy to try the whole campaign again from the beginning, I would definitely use your building-quie tactic. I did spend a LOT of time & effort building the economy, and was rather dismayed to find that much of my hard-earned money (above about 200K denairi) was being skimmed off by the scripting, and that my governors were picking up undesirable traits by living with too much luxury. I usually ended each turn with over 50K, and sometimes with over 150K, even though I was building something in each and every one of my cities.

One of my main economy-enhancing tactics has been to maximize the population. I've posted this a couple of times on other threads, but it seems that nobody else shares my enthusiasm. My largest city is Carthage, with a population of about 136K and still growing, and an income of 25-30K or thereabouts.

-- Cliff in Virginia

Cliff: Thanks for your kind words.

I hope I never gave anyone the impression I thought they were cheating by avoiding the fight with Hannibal. I probably would have done the same thing but for Tone pointing out the history involved in this moment. I have a rather unique approach to roleplay: some history, some personal preference, some basic craziness.

Think of it as a credit to the versatility of RSII.

Not exactly cheating, more making much easier for yourself. I myself always go for the ambush option, seems far more realistic.

There's actually an argument - one I made to DVK back in my early playtesting days - that fighting the battle with Hannibal actually makes the game easier, because the player so weakens Hannibal's army that the ultimate defeat becomes easier. Of course, how easy it is depends upon what you do afterwards, but there is that possibility.

I was on the train the other morning when a thought occurred to me that demonstrates what I'm trying to say. Growing up, my brother became very, very interested in chess. He bought books on the game, read up on "tactics" and moves, etc. For about a year, he drug me to the chessboard every chance he got. One thing I remember clearly from all those afternoons was how your opening moves defined the game - for good or bad. What works in one situation, fails miserably in another - which is one reason why a simple black and white checkerboard square and 32 colored pieces still makes for one of the most popular games in the world.

Dani, I just keep wondering why you're so overly concerned with your little navy. I did the exact thing you recommend -- i.e., use my navy to evacuate the army from Emporeia(sp?) so that my best general and his army can fight Hannibal, & later the rebels, in Italy. But I built up my navy a little bit at the get-go. After all, ships are cheap to buy and cheap to maintain; I think I built 3-4 new triremes and joined them to my navy. Then I didn't have to worry about the Carthagenian fleet any more -- in fact, I went hunting for them! I don't think I ever lost a sea battle.

I guess I can never get anyone else to believe this, but population = wealth. You should never depopulate a city you've just conquered; you basically just want to reduce the population in that place 'til the unrest from your conquest dies out, right? So you enslave the population instead, and all those thousands of people get scattered around to all your other cities. I can't remember having more than one turn of rioting in a new city, and that rarely. I never lost a city to rebellion because I couldn't control the rioting. If you destroy the unhappy buildings (tax buildings, certain military buildings mainly) and then build a 1-turn 5% happiness building (such as a shrine) that usually does the trick. It does help a lot to have a 4+ wreath governor ready to take charge.

My two cents worth.

-- Cliff in Virginia

Well, playing on H/H, I've lost that naval battle - and others. Mathematically, it's impossible to say "I've won every naval battle." A more correct statement would be: "I've strategically planned to ensure I don't lose naval battles. I build my navies up, I make sure they have experience, and so on." You cannot sail two Briremes (the small ships) into a large naval battle with a Carthaginian navy and hope to win ten times in ten.

The reason I'm concerned about it is I've lost that battle and others, and I go after the units in Emporia in the first move - so I have no time to build up my navy (or money, for that matter, since it's being used to recruit legions). As the second post indicates, I do recruit a navy when I have the money, but navies cost money and buildings make money. Buildings, in my planning scheme, come first.

You'll have no problem getting me to believe that population=money via taxes. The question, rather, is what's the best way to make money. I use trade and income from my buildings to reach the Roman income cap: around 200 to 250k that Tone has put in the script. In fact, too much money is a bad thing (generals develop some ugly traits). So I try to hover around 100k and even better around 50k. I don't care if I make 200k a turn, if I have something to spend it on. This does get to a problem once all your building queues are full and you have one of every named legion you can recruit, and your recruiting auxilia legions AND you're still making 100k a turn.

So, yeah, I see your point, but I've never needed that money that comes with the grief of having to control an overpopulated city. In fact, two cities that I ALWAYS exterminate/slave are Carthage and Athens (there are others, too).

How much money do you need????? I make it a habit to exterminate anything showing a blue or red face at the time of conquest and found the penalty to be minimal.

Agreed.

I generally only exterminate where the Romans REALLY did a number on a place - Carthage and Corinth (both in 146 BC - not a good year for non-Romans) spring to mind immediately. Jerusalem as well - everything else gets occupied/enslaved as I see fit (generally, civilized places get occupied, barbarians get enslaved (as a rule of thumb)).

And this demonstrates an understanding of history that I simply don't have. I credit you for knowing it, but at this stage of my life and my education, I simply wouldn't know what those cities were.

But thanks for sharing the info. Next time I take Carthage, it's to the guillotine! (Wait, wrong war.)

Off to class ... late.

~ Dani ~

[CliffBarney]

How much money do you need????? I make it a habit to exterminate anything showing a blue or red face at the time of conquest and found the penalty to be minimal.

Well, after innumerable RTW (+ Alexander), M2TW (+ Kingdoms) and Empire (+ Warpath) campaigns, I have come to believe firmly that Money = Strength, and that lack of money = defeat!

The most difficulty I ever had on any campaign was the Stainless Steel mod to Kingdoms. Besides the fact that my armies (Secluid Empire) were extremely weak and totally sucked, I never seemed to have enough money. After successfully conquering the Crusader States and the Turks, I was beset nearly everywhere by the Ottomans, and could almost hold my own. Even though I had maxed out my merchants & trained them well, and had built every income-generating building I could afford, I still couldn't raise enough strong armies to defend against the Ottomans -- let alone advance (they were so strong that I needed at least a 2 vs 1 advantage to have a chance against them). So, having conquered 42 of the necessary 50 regions I gave up.

I don't think I ever lost a sea battle.

Well, playing on H/H, I've lost that naval battle - and others. Mathematically, it's impossible to say "I've won every naval battle." ...
~ Dani ~

Well, yeah, I do remember losing a small fleet of five triremes against a similar fleet of pirates in the Bay of Biscay. And I did lose one or two small blockading fleets to the Greeks & Spartans. But I still stand by my point that it's worth the small amount of money to build your initial navy on turn 1 so that you don't worry about the Carthagenians.

-- Cliff in Virginia

[Bull3pr00f de Bodemloze]

Very good guide, I highly agree with everything written. + rep for Dani

[DarthLazy]

Well money has never been a problem for me.. Even as SAKA in EB where you wont get past 5000 Denarii for the first 100 turns. I just assume my men live on spoils of war and dont build anything Things get settled down once India is mine. Money is NEVER a problem in Rs2 Ive almost always have had enough money to keep stacks at optimal strength (I use 4-5 14 unit stacks). Even as the supposedly cash strapped factions like scythia gallaeci(starting) or parthia

[Beetlecat]

I love this guide! I've followed along to get a feel for the new playing style and construction options -- and I really love the sense of reeling in the defenses to save Rome before being able to then retake the provinces one by one...

I can't wait for the next installment when you start to go on the offensive!

[Town Watch]

I'm doing pretty well in my own campaign, I took Macedon's provinces except that island. I keep getting swamped by Greeks and Carthaginians. So far I've secured Sicily and Greece pretty much. I'm re-locating legions to crush any remaining opposition in Greece. Thankfully I haven't been swamped by any barbarians. I'm making decent money to finance my armies I suppose, keeping taxes at very high with green faces in Italy. The problem is that I got no idea what to build really. I built some happiness shrines, wells, odeon, oppidium, mines etc...

couple of questions follow now

1. what long term effects the client/allied vs annexed status has for my conquests, economically and what I can build and recruit from them?

2. same question but for the cultural building of the city? Also what about economic region vs fortified region or something like that?

3. how does the economy system with silk road, grain imports, mineral exports etc... work. what benefit is there and are there drawbacks?

4. why are tax efficiency buildings "bad" as the OP suggests? I don't necessarily need to get the maximum peak income from my empire, but one important real life economics rule is that money now is worth more than money "some time later". Ultimately power in this game comes at sword's point anyhow

5. can you get experience chevrons and gold/gold upgrades for troops recruitment as Rome in the campaign?

[MDT]

4. ... one important real life economics rule is that money now is worth more than money "some time later"...

Thats true but never forget, you invest the money and get more back.

If Josef would have opened an account with an interest rate of 3% and invested 1€ for his son at his birth it would be worth more than 56.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000,00 € today!

[toluas]

Thats true but never forget, you invest the money and get more back.

If Josef would have opened an account with an interest rate of 3% and invested 1€ for his son at his birth it would be worth more than 56.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000,00 € today!

He probably wouldn't have invested Euros, but rather sesterii, but that does not make your point invalid, oc!

[Legofan4]

1 Client/Allied and Annexed both lead to the citizenship building so it really just depends on the happyness of the settlement

2 Economic and fortified both lead to the Fortified and Economic upgrade so it just depends on what you want to build at the moment

[Beetlecat]

@town watch:

The avoidance of tax structure was simply Aristotle's game playing style - likely to avoid happiness penalties. 1) annexed states likely could allow building roman units/legionaries sooner, right? 2)Though ultimately it just affects what the short and medium-term needs are from that region. If it's a really wealthy province and not prone to attack, do the economic region... otherwise fortified. I think this simulates the city vs. castle concept in M2TW (if you've played that).

5) As for the gold upgrades -- Fully upgraded temples (of Vulcan, for example) help with that.

[Valerius]

Afew questions first is I have the large temple of Vulcan in Pella and don't have the option to retrain what gives.Second is about attributes how do you get good ones and avoid bad ones.I just put family members in cities and let them sit I even have generals in some.I'm also at war with 6 people it seems like everytime i get one on the ropes more jump in.So far I can't get a ceasefire out of anybody ,and if i did I'd still have to watch my back.I'm tempted to go on a recruiting binge but I'm trying to keep army upkeep in the same neighborhood as my tax income.One last q and I'm done can i destroy a faction through assasination I've done it on RTW.All tips are appreciated I'm a noob.

[Striker]

1) The clients have more happiness, but less income from taxes and less capable troops then the annexed regions, which have more income and better troops, but have a penalty to happiness, so basically you should annex regions that are fairly easy to control the happiness, and make them clients if their happines is too low. In the long term, it doesn't really matter as both will get to citizenship

2) You mean the one that can't be destroyed right? For example, if you're Rome and you take Pella, you will have an penalty to happiness, and maybe income. In the Economic Region you obviously are able to build income related buildings, on Military you can build troops wise buildings etc. In the long term both will lead to a building "Merged Economic/Fortified Region" something like that, which will give you the bonuses of both.

3) About the Silk Roads, and the others who cannot be destroyed I think they give a bonus to income, about grain import/export, etc there are explanations in the description of the building which I don't remember right now.

4) As said above, this is probably just Dani's playing style

5) Again, as said above the line of temples help, other buildings help as well such as armourer, blacksmith, etc.

[Grouchio]

When's the next chapter?

[Aristotle's Folly]

When's the next chapter?

Thank you for your interest.

Right now, I'm swamped with a lot of school work that has to be done by Monday, including an exam that I wasn't expecting to have to complete (well, that's done, but it put me behind on other stuff).

I tried to finish the "next chapter" last night, but ran into a problem with saving my games, which became a big issue as I had to delete my preferences folder and, as it turns out, I change A LOT of preferences. After an hour or so, I finally had things back to where I want them, but not time to update.

I'd like to say maybe tomorrow as I'll need a bit of a break from studying, but we'll see.

I really do appreciate your interest and I'm sorry this has taken so long.

~ Dani ~