Brainstorming: The Palestinian Problem

[★Bandiera Rossa☭]

There is much debate on the Israeli-Arab conflicts Palestine, Israeli Jews, or Palestinian Arabs. Most of this debate is based on claims that one side or the other has a right to this land because of historical ties rather than practical matters. There have of course been solutions put forward (Both of the 1 state and 2 state variety), but neither of these ideas really seem realistic at this time. I have created this thread in the hope that we can come up with some practical ideas that don't rely on the idea that either group has an inherent right to the land. Discuss any ideas, whether they are pre-existing or of your own design..

[Col. Tartleton]

The Jews shouldn't just be there.

The Muslims shouldn't just be there.

The Christians shouldn't just be there.

Put in a secular state where everyone can live together. Move the dome of the rock to Mecca so that it can be worshiped properly (It's just a rock for Christ's sake ) and build a Third Temple that outshines the Basilica of St. Peter that everyone can visit as a nondenominational religious site. If the Palestinians want to look like the good guys just let them build a church and stop fighting them. Israel will either stop fighting back or the west will make them stop acting out. The Dome of the Rock is barely important to Islam, they've already got the Box of the Rock in Mecca. The idea of the Temple is all the Jews have.

[★Bandiera Rossa☭]

The Jews shouldn't just be there.

The Muslims shouldn't just be there.

The Christians shouldn't just be there.

Put in a secular state where everyone can live together. Move the dome of the rock to Mecca so that it can be worshiped properly (It's just a rock for Christ's sake ) and build a Third Temple that outshines the Basilica of St. Peter that everyone can visit as a nondenominational religious site. If the Palestinians want to look like the good guys just let them build a church and stop fighting them. Israel will either stop fighting back or the west will make them stop acting out. The Dome of the Rock is barely important to Islam, they've already got the Box of the Rock in Mecca. The idea of the Temple is all the Jews have.

That's pretty close to what I support, but I'm not so sure about the Masjid Qubbat As-Sakhrah and the temple. The Masjid is already there and they are worshiping the same god, so why can't they just add on to Masjid and make a non-denominational temple rather than tearing down the structure?

[Col. Tartleton]

That's pretty close to what I support, but I'm not so sure about the Masjid Qubbat As-Sakhrah and the temple. The Masjid is already there and they are worshiping the same god, so why can't they just add on to Masjid and make a non-denominational temple rather than tearing down the structure?

The Dome is a beautiful structure, but its not the same thing. Its been a church and a mosque and its sort of a symbol of distrust between the religions. The inside basically proclaims Christianity as a false path and non Muslims are barely allowed there. Its not the sort of unifier I'm talking about. The Temple could be however.

Though on the otherhand I'm not sure why the Jews want it, as they no longer practice the same sort of religion since the diaspora. Are they going to return to sacrifices? Will the Kohen Gadol be reinstated as a Jewish Pope equivalent? What will happen to the current sects in the face of a new centralization? Will there be a push for a Jewish Theocracy or the reestablishment of the Bloodline of David as a new King of the Jews or will we get a new Herod the Great? Is the blood of kings spent? I feel like the Jews haven't actually figured this out yet.

[Armenum]

The Jews shouldn't just be there.

The Muslims shouldn't just be there.

The Christians shouldn't just be there.

Put in a secular state where everyone can live together. Move the dome of the rock to Mecca so that it can be worshiped properly (It's just a rock for Christ's sake ) and build a Third Temple that outshines the Basilica of St. Peter that everyone can visit as a nondenominational religious site. If the Palestinians want to look like the good guys just let them build a church and stop fighting them. Israel will either stop fighting back or the west will make them stop acting out. The Dome of the Rock is barely important to Islam, they've already got the Box of the Rock in Mecca. The idea of the Temple is all the Jews have.

So who would rule, atheists?

[Jaketh]

So who would rule, atheists?

why not have a government that represents all 3 groups

[Blaze86420]

why not have a government that represents all 3 groups

Its pretty obvious the conflict doesn't revolve around religion. Its nationality and ethnicity thats the real obstacle.

[★Bandiera Rossa☭]

why not have a government that represents all 3 groups

You know Jake, that's not a terrible idea. I don't think it would really work in Palestine as it is because most of the wealth and power is so concentrated in Jewish hands. Lebanon has a government similar to what you are suggesting but it hasn't really worked too well because it was biased towards certain religious groups: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_of_Lebanon
A very interesting idea and I'm glad you brought it up. I support state secularism, but this could be an interesting idea for at least the short term.

[MentshmitT]

We don't know how much temperatures will rise in said area over the next decades and even in a longer prespective. It may simply be not possible for the same amount of people to live there sooner or later. So, I would not try to guess. Politics, including peace politics work as long the participants have something to bargain. Physical indicators of habitats are unfortunately not to that extend under our control as we would like. - Just to give another aspect to consider. One of the key issues is fresh water. Jordan tries to solve this by building desalination plants in Aqaba and a tunnel that will bring the water into the Amman area. Other countries have similar problems as Jordan has due the proceeding urbanisation and the grow of the population. Peace means therefore first to generate enough fresh water for the needs of all the people arond there. The problem with generating water by desalination plants is that it comes with investment costs and high working expenses. Assets that States not necessarily have at dispostion because of their high defence expenditures.

[Armenum]

why not have a government that represents all 3 groups

I doubt in that case the government would be able to work together well and get anything done. I think it's pretty unrealistic to have such a state for all groups.

[Jaketh]

I doubt in that case the government would be able to work together well and get anything done. I think it's pretty unrealistic to have such a state for all groups.

tell them to shut the up and work together or there will be unforeseen consequences

[Blaze86420]

Two states, Palestine gets the Gaza strip and the West Bank including East Jerusalem. Simple right? Yeah, well try explaining this to an Israel and tell me how that goes.

[hellheaven1987]

I say we should set up the whole West Bank, Gaza and Israel as free killing zone where Israeli and Palestinian would solve their problem by blood and death; none of international communities should provide any resource into this killing zone until the sealing time reach its deadline. Finally, if both Israeli and Palestinian still cannot reach any agreement before the deadline of this free-for-all killing match, then international community should exterminate everyone in Palestine and turned it into no-man-land.

[Morbius Sire]

While I support the two state solution. I think a more long term solution is to make a one state solution. Just leave all the extremists out of any decision making. Unrealistic though.

[hellheaven1987]

While I support the two state solution. I think a more long term solution is to make a one state solution. Just leave all the extremists out of any decision making. Unrealistic though.

And yet those extremists would still take the control one day, history already proves that.

I already said many times no matter what happened Palestinian and Israeli would still go for an all-out-war in future - two states, one state or whatever we can put on the table now would not avoid that outcome.

[Blaze86420]

And yet those extremists would still take the control one day, history already proves that.

I already said many times no matter what happened Palestinian and Israeli would still go for an all-out-war in future - two states, one state or whatever we can put on the table now would not avoid that outcome.

And you base this on?

[Morbius Sire]

In the very short term, yes. As long as have people spewing war-calls.
But if you provide a sustainable life/country/state, then people would be less willing to arm themselves and fight.

[hellheaven1987]

In the very short term, yes. As long as have people spewing war-calls.
But if you provide a sustainable life/country/state, then people would be less willing to arm themselves and fight.

Indeed, apartly Arabs were too poor that was why they decided to wipe up Israel from the map in 1948...

[Blaze86420]

Indeed, apartly Arabs were too poor that was why they decided to wipe up Israel from the map in 1948...

This post made absolutely no sense whatsoever.

[Morbius Sire]

Indeed, apartly Arabs were too poor that was why they decided to wipe up Israel from the map in 1948...

As blaze said, this post doesn't make any sense.

Wealth has little to do with what I said. If you have checkpoints, missiles, extremists calling for war and delusional settlers, you are not gonna have any prospect of life.

But create a state/two states that can sustain life, and the call for war will decrease by a lot.