Cavalry in Sieges

[King Siegfried]

Has anyone else had a problem with cavalry charges inside of settlements? I have played several sieges and there has been one constant thorn in my side: when I tell my cavalry to charge a unit, they pull out their lances and run forward. But then, instead of tipping their lances and charging properly, they simply keep their lances held skyward and run bodily into their foe. Without their charge bonus, they don't rout the unit and I lose so many more knights than I should have.

Is this just me? Please tell me I'm not the only one who has this problem...

[delra]

Looks like they can't get enough speed. Either way, cities are to be taken by swords, not horses...

[Paladin94610]

To make cavalry/infantry charges in cities, these conditions are required.
1) Straight street with no corners or turns.
2) Perfect unit formation
3) Defensive stance
4) Alt+Click

Only if these conditions are certainly met, they can make a charge.

And charges are more successful when you charge into the town square from a straight street.

I usually have a good cavalry unit and when my infantry have pushed the enemy into town square, I charge my cavalry from the opposite or side straight roads into the backs of enemy.

[Fakir]

1) Straight street with no corners or turns.
2) Perfect unit formation
3) Defensive stance
4) Alt+Click

1) True. This will be the deal-breaker in 80% of cases. As soon as these kids need to make a turn, they forget all about what a charge is.

2) Very recommendable, but it isn't necessary.

3) no idea where you got this..

4) It's the same if you double-click, or even if you single-click and then switch to Run. The absolute necessity of the Alt+Click is one of the oldest MTWII myths around.


That is specific to cities. A general guideline is to always consider that a charge against a unit that is moving away from you is likely to go bad.

[Meneth]

A general guideline is to always consider that a charge against a unit that is moving away from you is likely to go bad.

I've always hated that.
Why can't my cavalry just trample the fleeing bastards?
Guess CA is to blame, as usual.

"You can be certain that if a cavalry charge failed, then it is because you did something wrong."
Usually for me, it's either because of one of three things:

• The enemy runs away, and for some reason my cavalry thinks it's a good idea to slow down, instead of just continuing on
• Some invisible wall in a settlement
• My cavalry just randomly decides not to charge (on flat land, with plenty of distance, with the enemy standing still or coming towards my cavalry)

[Aemilius Paulus]

Yeah, I never had any problems with cavalry charges on the streets - I regularly do it even with the smallest of castles and towns. However, I always use my general's bodyguards. Never tried it with a regular unit of knights/other cavalry. That said, I did use my Faction Leader a few times, and his BG usually has 43 men.

So I guess there is nothing to prevent the use of cavalry. Just have to be really meticulous about it. Since I spend more time in 'Pause' mode than in real-time during my battles, being meticulous is not a problem for me - it is a natural habit.



On a side note, M2TW cavalry is exceedingly overpowered. OK, I suppose knights are supposed to be OP, since it is historical, so I will rectify my earlier statement by saying that the cavalry charges in M2TW are OP. They kill everything, even pretty much any spear unit. M2TW totally ignores the effects of bracing against a cavalry charge, even though many spear units have that brace bonus in EDU.


Not to mention, cavalry was really bugged in vanilla MiNO. One can still feel it in SS, although not as much. RTW cavalry responded very well to all commands. Same goes for all RTW units. In Medieval, units are sluggish and reluctant to respond to orders. Lots of bugs also happen when units charge. You see a few run ahead and the rest stay behind unless you do something (such as tell the unit to run right through the enemy combatant, which will being your units closer to the enemy). In RTW, charges were clean and cohesive.

[SirRobin]

I usually have a good cavalry unit and when my infantry have pushed the enemy into town square, I charge my cavalry from the opposite or side straight roads into the backs of enemy.

Thanks for sharing, I'm sure nobody else ever thought of that

[Alavaria]

Either way, cities are to be taken by swords, not horses...

Those damn Byzantines and their family members seem to disagree with you =p (Mongols as well?)

They also enjoy massacring spearmen and long walks on paved roads.

[luciferleigh]

it will also depend on your unit size, as IA said in #2, big cavalry formations have a hard time forming up in narrow streets

[delra]

Actually every time I send cavalry into a city in this mod it ends up poorly. I got lazy because of all those mounted gold-chevroned overpowered beyond imagination by general traits bodyguards from Third Age.

Still, no matter what mod, the best stack to take a city is a stack of armored swordsmen.

[Fakir]

Yeah and some longbowmen if you have the space to spare.

[Fakir]

Overall, with Kingdoms, and the patches, and now 6.3, cavalry charges have been nicely smoothed out and have become reliably functional. You can be certain that if a cavalry charge failed, then it is because you did something wrong.

[philipjd]

for me the most important thing about charges are:-

1) formation prior to hittign the target unit - must be 'tight', not strung out.
2) distance to target - have to be able to get up speed.

In cities the tendency for cavalry units to get strung out as they move down a street, regardless of whether its straight or bendy, reduces the effectivness hugely. I never use melee cavalry inside a city unless its chasing a routing unit or a general in the city square itself.

[Fakir]

get strung out as they move down a street, regardless of whether its straight or bendy

Yes, yes very true.

[Tears of Destiny]

And this is why I always play on Small or normal unit sizes. Anything larger and even infantry AI starts to act with grand stupidity in sieges...

[Aemilius Paulus]

Meh, I prefer large. No problems with the cavalry, since if I tried a faction leader with 43 men, that would mean that regular cavalry units would work reasonably well (with 48 men or so).

Normal units size, at least for me, fails to capture the feeling of Total War, that heroic, epic feeling of leading momentous armies. That said, Huge Unit Size works even better, but as you pointed out, that is quite problematic in a siege. Also, that really drains the population, although that is realistic, more so than the current model of recruitment with which you can recruit ridiculous amount of soldiers from a single province. So Large is my golden middle.

Oh, and of course, it helps if the PC one is using to play M2TW is fast. Before I did massive upgrading of my computer, I played with large unit size on medium-high settings, but the game seriously lagged (max FPS of ~8 for medium battles, and dropping to 3-2 FPS in large battles or sieges). Now I play on absolutely everything set to highest, and I get 60-35 FPS. 1GB DDR2 Galaxy GT 220 is an amazing video card, for the price of fifty-something bucks with rebate (Newegg). It even works with my laughable 300W PSU.

[SirRobin]

That said, Huge Unit Size works even better, but [...] Also, that really drains the population, although that is realistic

I think you might confuse it with RTW - in MTW2 the recruitment doesn't deplete populaton, as far as I know.

[Aemilius Paulus]

I think you might confuse it with RTW - in MTW2 the recruitment doesn't deplete populaton, as far as I know.

Yep, you likely got me there. I always do that. I am a very fanatical Europa Barbarorum fan, and I know just about everything there is to know about RTW. Of course, this is a minus when it comes to M2TW.


Shoot, this is really unrealistic. They should have kept it.

[Ichon]

Shoot, this is really unrealistic. They should have kept it.

They did not keep it because it was unrealistic for AI which could never grow its cities when engaged in constant wars. I remember in several RTW games to arrive in a large city and without sacking finding only 3,000 population. AI cities would never reach Huge size and the best units.

[Tears of Destiny]

I think you might confuse it with RTW - in MTW2 the recruitment doesn't deplete populaton, as far as I know.

Does not happen, otherwise Castles would never grow. This turn Mystras recruits several hundred men, about 500. VIVA LA ROME!