[RS 2.1a] Seleucid Unit Expansion Version 2

[NightEye]

Ah, I like to point out that I'm not going to change the existing model. I'm just going to add a few aesthetic touches for effect.
As for the cataphracts, the one problem I have with changing them as of the model is that I honestly like them as is. But I also really like the designs you presented. So I'm going to do something of a compromise. And I'll just keep it at that for now

[Everto]

Ah, I like to point out that I'm not going to change the existing model. I'm just going to add a few aesthetic touches for effect.
As for the cataphracts, the one problem I have with changing them as of the model is that I honestly like them as is. But I also really like the designs you presented. So I'm going to do something of a compromise. And I'll just keep it at that for now

Can't wait to see what you've come up with NightEye, I like the Agema model's fine and didn't expect you to change the model, I think they represent what a hellenized cataphract would look like. But if you're planning on making them even more badass than they already are, thats Pimp in my book

As for the Cataphracts, i'm likewise excited to hear that you're planning on giving them a touch up, i'm optimistic about the change's seeing as any new design will be a great step forward

Hopefully you'll incorporate some of my suggestions in your "compromise" Looking forward to it!

(and as always, I'll post new material the moment I lay my hands on it )

[Everto]

Clash of the Mods!! THE NEW SELEUCID EMPIRE HAS ARRIVED!!

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[Pro Gloria et Patria]

Wow nice ones


Making the seleucid units more different, now the cataphracts have their own special look.

But maybe a bit too much Gold

[NightEye]

^Those aren't mine, those are from Intel's retextures.

@Everto I don't think I have to as Intel's stuff is completely compatible with mine.

[Everto]

Wow nice ones

Making the seleucid units more different, now the cataphracts have their own special look.

But maybe a bit too much Gold

Be sure to +Rep Intel for his great work

And seeing as they are not only just the Seleucid Cataphracts but also the Bodygaurd Unit of the Seleucid's, I find the design rather fitting and prestigious, and personally don't think that its to much gold. I increased their cost, upkeep and attack to reflect their new alpha elite look.

@Everto I don't think I have to as Intel's stuff is completely compatible with mine.

Ya I know, just thinking out loud, I'll be quiet now

[Pro Gloria et Patria]

I would +rep

but actually i dont know how

[NightEye]

Just an advanced warning, the next version of the Seleucid Expansion mod will not be save compatible with older versions.

[intel]

I would +rep

but actually i dont know how

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[Everto]

Where do I even begin mate, this is stunning work. I don't think anyone was expecting such an incredible addition. Sir, you are a genius.

Those new Agema are straight up sexy! I absolutely love the purple and gold details, that shield is a nice addition as well.

The Seleucid Auxilia Toxotai are…wow, I'm speechless.

I like the fact that you've added a new Judean Unit, adds some flavor to the region.

And I'm going to Install and Play this mod ASAP because I want to see them Hetoirai Kataphractoi, that just sounds so sexy and to good to be true

Nighteye, I praise your great work!

..and a special thanks for being placed in your list of recognition

[Everto]

Here are the Hetoirai Kataphractoi you asked for

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

btw, did you remove units from certain cities so as not to reach the 32 unit limit, like for instance antioch?

[NightEye]

Sort of, I changed the AOR setup a bit so as to compensate for the new stuff. Example you can't recruit cataphracts in the same city as the Hetairoi Kataphractoi. Though I haven't tested it too far into a campaign, let me know if any city trips the limit.

And thank for the pic.

[Everto]

Sort of, I changed the AOR setup a bit so as to compensate for the new stuff. Example you can't recruit cataphracts in the same city as the Hetairoi Kataphractoi. Though I haven't tested it too far into a campaign, let me know if any city trips the limit.

And thank for the pic.

Quick question, can the boats trip up the limit? Because if that's the case, then Antioch's -ed. Without including the Palmyrans, the city is at 34 units. I think removing the basic Archers from the highest level barracks would help. Also, Antioch DOES have both cataphracts and you're additional unit...just fyi.

[tone]

yikes, sorry to say it but some of this stuff really grates!

Firstly why has any Seleucid unit got a draco bearer (they were a steppes/Parthian thing), particularly with a Sarmatian helmet?

I'll leave it there before I say any more that would get me into trouble!!

[NightEye]

@Everto Eh? I thought I fixed that??? Oh well, at least it's not the units again. I'll deal with it later when I get home.

@Tone Agema were mostly recruited from peoples with horseriding culture, I figure somebody might bring this tradition along with them.
As for the helmet I left that in for the same reason, but I think I'd better get rid of the Sarmatian design (I kept because it was cool ). I knew somebody's gonna call me out for that.
And I don't mind the critique, especially from a dev, at least it's insightful

[Everto]

@Everto Eh? I thought I fixed that??? Oh well, at least it's not the units again. I'll deal with it later when I get home.

It's not that big of a deal, I'm probably going to remove some units I never use in Antioch anyway

@Tone Agema were mostly recruited from peoples with horseriding culture, I figure somebody might bring this tradition along with them.
As for the helmet I left that in for the same reason, but I think I'd better get rid of the Sarmatian design (I kept because it was cool ). I knew somebody's gonna call me out for that.
And I don't mind the critique, especially from a dev, at least it's insightful

What is that beautiful American phrase?...constructive criticism I think I'll throw in a few of my observations, and I'd like to throw in that I believe in nothing else than this being the best Seleucid mod ever.
1. Agema- They look great, love the new colors and the shield. Great look for a heavy hellenic calvary archer. But I have to agree that the Draco Banner and the Sarmatian rider are a bit much. Yes they had Eastern roots, but they were under the command of Hellenics, and thus the Standard bearer should be more greek in design..

2. The Heitorai Kataphractoi are a very interesting and innovative idea, yet I find them problamatic in that they should be recruitable only in the far east if anything, like Ectabana, Babylon, Opis and Persepolis. Having too diverse of a heavy horse roster can be a bit much if it is not handled correctly, and I find that the Kataphracts and the Heitorai Kataphracts are too strikingly similar of a unit if they're located in all the same places, and add to that the Agema, well that's just a lot of interchangable heavy cav.
The idea is to make the Heitorai Kataphractai unique; for instance make their attack higher than that of the Kataphracts, but have a lower defense. The Kataphracts would be far stronger and more durable of a unit, making them heavy hitting melee calvalry, able to charge, engage, and break the enemy, whilst the Heitorai Kataphractoi would have a more devestating charge, but not as durable in prolonged melee like the Agema or the Kataphroctai. Also I feel that the overall "look" needs to be polished a little. My suggestions are to make the Gold plating be the same color as that of Intel's Kataphract design, it'll look less yellow and more "GOLD", and would making those lions on the breast plate jump out more, making the design look more refined.

3. To much of a good thing isn't always 'good', (but it usually is) You've created incredible work, and I love all your units. Its important, as with the Heitorai Kataphracts, to find a balance, and with the addition of new units its imperitive so as to keep the gameplay fun and fresh. The Marines for instance were a perfect addition, and I find that they're look and uniqueness is defindently a plus. The Agema, without saying, I cannot thank you enough for.
I'm going to test your new additions more in depth, such as seeing how the addition of the Seleucid Auxilia Toxtotai affects the feel of the game (I currently think they're perfect in their new role btw), but I will defidently mess around with the AOR of the Heitorai Katafroktai to get a feel what the best aor for them will be... when I find it, I'll be sure to let you know

...On a side note, something that would be a nice addition would be a new look for the Seleucid Thueruporai, they're about as bland as it gets. At least a change of shields, even though I think the armour could use a touch up 2.

...and from before, are boats included in the 32 unit limit?

[NightEye]

@Everto
1. Well, I'm still sticking with the dracobearer model but I'll try making the guy holding the standard more hellenic. One problem I'l foreseeing one this is that the model's helmet model designs but I'll find a way around that.
2. Ugh, obviously my attempt to alter the cataphract type cavalry AORs failed miserably, I intended cataphracts and Hetairoi cataphractoi NOT to spawn in the same locations. I'll seriously have to refocus on the EDB.
As for the looks, I guess pure yellow gold is too bright eh? Sure, I'll ask Intel for bb code color he used and fix that.
3. The Toxotai Auxilia are actually better swordsmen than they are archers like the Corsican Infantry. They're not good taking on heavy stuff like Legions and Phalanxes (head-on anyway) but they can hold their own against light infantry.
Wasn't Intel planning to do that?

And yes it counts

[Everto]

@ NightEye
1. So your sticking with it then? I understand that, seeing as the Agema riders themselves where made up of mainly Medians and other Eastern Elite horsemen, it would reflect their heritage. I'm trying to decide if I should use your new Agema or Intel's new golden Cataphracts as the Seleucid Bodygaurd unit, both are historically accurate, both are beautiful models...decisions decisions

2. My suggestion would be to make the Heitorai Kataphroktai recruitable in places like Ectabana, Opis, Babylon, and any other northern Median cities. Reason being is that all these provinces are land locked, and could have both Kataphracts and Heitorai Kataphroktai... Also, seeing as these cities aren't necessarily as developed as Seleucia or Antioch, they'd be units that arrive later on in the game, representing the further hellenization of Seleucia's Eastern provinces. These riders would be an elite brand of heitorai, men pulled from both Hellenic colonies in the east, like Opis, as well as Medians and loyal Persians, like Ectabana and Babylon. Seeing as they're cheaper than Kataphracts and Agema, yet still a very durable unit with quite a punch, they'd be a perfect counter to the Armenian and Parthian threat.
They could also be recruitable in Seleucia, it'd make perfect sense, and seeing as there are no ports connecting to it, would be no problem with to many units.

3. So they're decent in Melee as well? Did not know this, will be sure to test it out. They're a really great addition, love the fact that the Seleucid's finally have a durable Hellenic Archer

And I don't know if Intel's planning on doing the Seleucid Thueroporai, will check up with him on that. I'll also see if he'd wanna give the Katakoi Phalangites a shot

[intel]

I'm not, I'm afraid that I have other priorities, such as butt-ugly Machimoi Doryphoroi, Machimoi Phalangites and butt-ugly Ptolemaic light troops (slingers, archers, peltast etc)

[NightEye]

^Okay, I guess it's my unit to skin then along with the SE Hypaspists