If N:TW was Historically accurate, France would have over 10 stacks...

Here's some figures I put together through some reliable sources.

LA GRANDE ARMEE - 1803-1807

89 Regiments of Line Infantry (1st-112th) (VACANT - 31, 38, 41, 49, 68, 71, 73, 74, 77, 78, 80, 83, 87, 89, 90, 91, 97, 98, 99, 104, 107, 109, 110)
26 Regiments of Light Infantry
80 Cavalry Regiments (2 Carabineir, 12 Curassier, 30 Dragoon, 24 Chasseur, 12 Hussars)

+ Foreign Units and Imperial Guard

That works out at approx. 200 regiments, divided by the 20 game limit, at 10 "stack" armies. This is not including General units, Artillery, Imperial Guard or Foreign Units (i.e. Polish and German Allies).

It's well known that the Grande Armee was divided into 7 Corps, plus the Imperial Guard and Murat's Cavalry as reserves. So that would be 9 stacks in game.

Out of curioisty, could the game engine on a good computer handle this level of troop numbers on the campaign map? I.e. France having 9 stacks, Coalition 15 stacks + Insignificant nations? Im just curious to see if it would be technically possible, although I know that there is presently no breakthrough in modding to place new armies in the game on the start pos.

Plus the campaign reinforcement features meaning you can't have more than 20 units deployed at any one time would mean a mod for this would suck >.>.

Anyone care to suggest a scaling system as an alternative?

It got even bigger later on. Thanks for the figures.

You can have a series of stacks fighting each other, which turn out to be a series of battles. Which was often how it worked in any case.

But battles became larger as the armies became bigger. Even the British had 100 line by the end of the wars.

A typical large battle was 50k to 70k each side early in the piece, but they could get larger than that later.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Leipzig

+rep for putting the historical data out there...

as far as your follow-up inquiry, my PC is nothing amazing, and if I'm playing as France, I usually generate those quantities of French units by the third year in the game... though I can't say what the coalition unit-numbers look like by the same period, I can say that there must be at least 15+ full-stacks floating around outside my control, between the Coalition and minor powers

And I don't suffer any noticeable lag in the NTW game -- I do usually have a problem in ETW in later years, though, mostly in between turns, from Turkey and/or Russia constantly breaking-up and re-forming their stacks, from what I recall

Here's my PC stats in a nut-shell:
Gateway FX6800-01e using Vista 64-bit
Intel Core i7 @ 2.67GHz
3.00 GB RAM

Originally Posted by wulfgar610

It got even bigger later on. Thanks for the figures.

You can have a series of stacks fighting each other, which turn out to be a series of battles. Which was often how it worked in any case.

But battles became larger as the armies became bigger. Even the British had 100 line by the end of the wars.

A typical large battle was 50k to 70k each side early in the piece, but they could get larger than that later.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Leipzig

Hmm, yes I agree. Thank you for reminding me of this. Point is, how can you represent this in game? A dedicated scaling system needs to be found, or at least the reinforcement feature needs tweaking so you can have an AI controlled friendly force.

Perhaps each current "Regiment" is one Division? Therefore one Corps would be 3-8 units?

Originally Posted by feanor68

+rep for putting the historical data out there...

as far as your follow-up inquiry, my PC is nothing amazing, and if I'm playing as France, I usually generate those quantities of French units by the third year in the game... though I can't say what the coalition unit-numbers look like by the same period, I can say that there must be at least 15+ full-stacks floating around outside my control, between the Coalition and minor powers

And I don't suffer any noticeable lag in the NTW game -- I do usually have a problem in ETW in later years, though, mostly in between turns, from Turkey and/or Russia constantly breaking-up and re-forming their stacks, from what I recall

Here's my PC stats in a nut-shell:
Gateway FX6800-01e using Vista 64-bit
Intel Core i7 @ 2.67GHz
3.00 GB RAM

Cool, I personally noticed states like Oldenburg and Switzland having nearly two stacks by the end of the first year, and I managed to develop 8,000 in cash income per turn whilst maintaining three full stacks, so I don't doubt it's possible.

Question is, how can we re-create the Battle of the Nations in N:TW?

Originally Posted by iPhoenix

Hmm, yes I agree. Thank you for reminding me of this. Point is, how can you represent this in game? A dedicated scaling system needs to be found, or at least the reinforcement feature needs tweaking so you can have an AI controlled friendly force.

Perhaps each current "Regiment" is one Division? Therefore one Corps would be 3-8 units?



Cool, I personally noticed states like Oldenburg and Switzland having nearly two stacks by the end of the first year, and I managed to develop 8,000 in cash income per turn whilst maintaining three full stacks, so I don't doubt it's possible.

Question is, how can we re-create the Battle of the Nations in N:TW?

Simply the nature of the game. Once the someone like the French can get a few protectorates and the economics is raised to the Nth degree, then you can field 10 to 20 stacks if you want to.

But the armies became bigger in the historical period as well. The 1813 Leipzig

The battle involved over 600,000 soldiers,

was huge by standards early in the war, with 190k for the French and allies, against 450k coalition allies.

But it wasn't decided in a day, it was a series of battles in different sectors over a number of days. This was total war, unlike the gentleman day fights of a century earlier. The early industrial age had mode it possible to field troops and munitions on a more vast scale.

The British army was 40k strong at the start and 250k strong by the end of it.

But your point might be that something like 100 units at least per side would be required for something like Waterloo with 50 units each of possible of Prussians and French reinforcements. Looks like CA don't want to do it, since it would blow up the game engine.

The "Grand Armee" was a force assembled to invade Britain and was around 160k to 180k strong. But that wasn't their total forces. They had 20k strong forces probably of inferior militia quality guarding places like Brittany.

LA GRANDE ARMEE - 1803-1807

89 Regiments of Line Infantry (1st-112th) (VACANT - 31, 38, 41, 49, 68, 71, 73, 74, 77, 78, 80, 83, 87, 89, 90, 91, 97, 98, 99, 104, 107, 109, 110)
26 Regiments of Light Infantry
80 Cavalry Regiments (2 Carabineir, 12 Curassier, 30 Dragoon, 24 Chasseur, 12 Hussars)

+ Foreign Units and Imperial Guard

Hmmm, the French fielded a lot of light infantry. Must remember to try that out, I prefer line myself.

Originally Posted by wulfgar610

Simply the nature of the game. Once the someone like the French can get a few protectorates and the economics is raised to the Nth degree, then you can field 10 to 20 stacks if you want to.

But the armies became bigger in the historical period as well. The 1813 Leipzig was huge by standards early in the war, with 190k for the French and allies, against 450k coalition allies.

But it wasn't decided in a day, it was a series of battles in different sectors over a number of days. This was total war, unlike the gentleman day fights of a century earlier. The early industrial age had mode it possible to field troops and munitions on a more vast scale.

The British army was 40k strong at the start and 250k strong by the end of it.

But your point might be that something like 100 units at least per side would be required for something like Waterloo with 50 units each of possible of Prussians and French reinforcements. Looks like CA don't want to do it, since it would blow up the game engine.

The "Grand Armee" was a force assembled to invade Britain and was around 160k to 180k strong. But that wasn't their total forces. They had 20k strong forces probably of inferior militia quality guarding places like Brittany.

Hmmm, the French fielded a lot of light infantry. Must remember to try that out, I prefer line myself.

Yes, but how could this be represented in-game? Personally I would reccomend scaling the sizes down so that one current "unit" becomes Brigade or even Division strength, with upkeep increased to stop en masse spawning from getting too high.

You can spawn endless of full stacks in vanilla already. Just reduce unit upkeep to 1 and you can spawn thousands of regiments in 1805.

Look this post here we are already working on this.