Those that wanna keep fighting, do you even remember the martyr's names?

**sephodwyrm** · December 15, 2005, 11:54 AM

Do the defenders of faith and freedom make an effort to even remember the names of those that fallen in the name of freedom for the Iraqi people?

No, don't use search engines. It'll tend to give you anti-war sites.
And if you can't remember, Denis Leary's song aptly describes you.
You don't care.
You just want to feel good at someone else's expense.
Even if it cost them their lives.

http://www.ac.wwu.edu/~stephan/USfatalities.html

Wonder why none of our defenders of faith and freedom on TWC are signing up.

With every coffin wrapped in the stars and stripes democracy in Iraq becomes even more real.

Salute to the brave Americans that died.
There are now 2147 of them.
If any of the people that think that we should keep on fighting, I think you should do well to remember these 2147 names, how they died, why they died and why it is worthwhile. Every story is a hero's tale.

But seriously, I don't think any of them do know.
I don't because I'm not American.
If you are, and you believe in fighting, you should. Maybe I can reduce the number to 1074 (I round numbers up). Or maybe 537...or 269. In the end, I doubt if you can even remember 50 tales of the heroes that died.

http://www.iraqbodycount.net/
No...don't tell me because Saddam Hussein killed more Iraqis it is OK for the coalition to kill less.

**Rush Limbaugh** · December 15, 2005, 11:56 AM

Once wasnt enough. You had to post this crap twice?

**sephodwyrm** · December 15, 2005, 11:57 AM

Yeah. To get your attention to this crap and remind you of your cowardly behavior in not signing up for the US army to defend your nation from terrorists.

**Rush Limbaugh** · December 15, 2005, 12:12 PM

Yeah. To get your attention to this crap and remind you of your cowardly behavior in not signing up for the US army to defend your nation from terrorists

Now you really stepped in it. I was a Marine and fought in Nam. Put that in your pipe and smoke it you jerk. Im 57 or id volunteer again. You should know who your speaking to before making insane claims. Be careful as there are active US servicemen on these boards as well. You might have addressed one of them and got an even more bitter response.

**CommanderSela** · December 15, 2005, 12:21 PM

What is this kind of debate and who are the martyrs? The army in Irak? Why not burning yourself in front of the pentagone. That would be the real martyr

**sephodwyrm** · December 15, 2005, 12:18 PM

So? There are also marines that signed for Nam living downstairs exposed to the elements, bitter about the way the government treated them...like they're some forgotten pile of trash.

Since you're so eager to sign up, why not do it again? If you're eager enough age does not make a difference. In the Anti-Japanese war we have grandpas over the age of 60 signing up and fighting the Japanese that despoil our land. I don't think my thread is that insulting to any servicemen, because seriously, I am telling you guys to remember why the brave men have fought and died for their country (not mine because I'm not American).

Troops out there are demoralized by the intense argument behind the lines. Seriously, the defenders of freedom and faith (or the so called people) can adjust this by signing up. True, you might be called idiotic or moronic by American liberal slob, but once you make an example with good intentions people would judge you rightly by your actions.

**Rush Limbaugh** · December 15, 2005, 12:24 PM

So? There are also marines that signed for Nam living downstairs exposed to the elements, bitter about the way the government treated them...like they're some forgotten pile of trash.

What has this to do with my patriotism or willingness to fight ?

Since you're so eager to sign up, why not do it again? If you're eager enough age does not make a difference

Because it does make a difference here. Id never pass the physical even if there was no age limit. The Marines dont take 57 year old recruits nor does any other branch of the service. Stop trying to be clever. Your not very good at it.

Troops out there are demoralized by the intense argument behind the lines.

Their demoralized by people like you in other words. Just shut up and their morale will go up.

**sephodwyrm** · December 15, 2005, 12:22 PM

Dude. That's showy. If you want to be a martyr you sign up for the US army and volunteer for tour in Iraq and help the troops out there with your gun and aim, not dowsing yourself with kerosene.

**sephodwyrm** · December 15, 2005, 12:28 PM

You don't have to sign up for the USMC, old guy. You can go sign up for the Reserves, or join a recruitment campaign, instead of wasting your time arguing with a 21 year old Chinese Muslim who is working on a GATA transcription factor project.

You can't get me to shut up because your comrades started a pisspoor thread telling people why they should keep fighting. IMO, if the defenders of faith and freedom know at least 50 names and war stories about why and how the martyr's gave their lives for the US of A, more poeple would actually be inspired.

Arguing with me is not going to make your position any nicer, because I actually agree that the US should stay in Iraq and that the US needs more men.

**Rush Limbaugh** · December 15, 2005, 12:37 PM

You don't have to sign up for the USMC, old guy. You can go sign up for the Reserves, or join a recruitment campaign,

No you cant sign up for the reserves. Also I belong to the VFW and go around talking to current marines and encouraging the young men I know to join.

You can't get me to shut up because your comrades started a pisspoor thread telling people why they should keep fighting. IMO,

I can tell you anything I like. Of course you dont have to listen.

Arguing with me is not going to make your position any nicer, because I actually agree that the US should stay in Iraq and that the US needs more men.

Well at least we agree on something. By the way your muslim roots are showing every time you use the phrase defenders of faith . We are a securlaist nation, We defend freedom not any specific religion. We even defend Muslims.

**Cwn** · December 15, 2005, 12:46 PM

Chinese muslim?

I thought most chinese people were followers of the fat guy with curly hair.

**bigfootedfred** · December 15, 2005, 12:48 PM

Originally Posted by Cwn

Chinese muslim?

I thought most chinese people were followers of the fat guy with curly hair.

The major religions of China are:

* Taoism - exact numbers unknown
* Buddhism - exact numbers unknown [about 8%]
* Christianity - 2 to 4% (from Western sources; the Chinese official number is much smaller than 1%)
* Islam - 1% to 2%
* Falun Gong - exact numbers unknown

(claimed not to be a "religion", though from a scholarly perspective is a spiritual practice. Claimed numbers of followers of the Falun Dafa are also regarded as unreliable.)

While the People's Republic of China is officially atheist it does allow religion under strict supervision. Historically, Taoism and Buddhism have been the dominant religions of Chinese society, and continue to be so in Chinese societies outside direct PRC control.

In recent years, Falun Gong, a spiritual practice drawing upon Buddhism and Taoism, has attracted great controversy after the government of the People's Republic of China labeled it an evil cult and began an attempt to eradicate it. The Falun Gong itself denies that it is a cult or a religion, even though there is solid evidence that determines Falun Gong as a rather "abormal" cult, several members have been seen to burn themselves alive even before the Chinese government has reacted to Falun Gong, unfortuantely, most people are oblivious of this fact and even a majority of members are oblivious to this. The Falun Gong says that it has approximately 70-100 million followers, which is a bit higher than estimates by outside groups, though exact numbers are unknown. They regularly protest against their suppression, both domestically and internationally.

source

**Cwn** · December 15, 2005, 12:50 PM

Allright.

Go on with the thread.

**sephodwyrm** · December 15, 2005, 12:58 PM

Yeah...I am a Chinese Muslim that converted in the US.

Surprising but true.
I was rather Christian before that. Had my doubts. Took the change.

**Denny Crane!** · December 15, 2005, 03:26 PM

Wow this is the most illogical concept I have come across on the boards (and I have read the suicide thread which got a bit laerry). Forgive me if I understood it wrong but what is being suggested is that if I am an American and I want to support the war on terror I should know a quota/percentage or all of the wars casualties names and stories to justify this belief. Furthermore I should sign up and fight before arguing a case for war to prove my dedication.

Now I am not American and probably lean towards not supporting the war but I find that concept extremely strange.

So imagine hypothetically a new Hitler arose in Germany and started killing people. Would I, to support a war against him, have to A. Sign up and fight B. Know the name and story of war casualties to justify my belief. Would we have a national referendum beforehand with little exams to test our war knowledge to prove our dedication before allowing us to vote?

Funny I always thought that in a democratic society with a standing army we would have a government and standing army so we could support actions without having to actually physically go to war ourselves.

Seph please educate me I cannot grasp this concept.

**Farnan** · December 15, 2005, 02:17 PM

If everyone fights, what is there to fight for?

I don't think everyone who agrees with the war should have to join the military, because people who don't want to join shouldn't. I thought there would be many soldiers who would disagree with my position.

**RZZZA** · December 15, 2005, 02:25 PM

Nobody will remember most of these peoples names....people never remember names, they remember the idea and the principle, but never the individuals that actually martyred themselves.

I mean, most christians dont even know that Jesus Christ wasnt actually his name...It was Joshua Ben Joseph (might have spelled it wrong)...I mean, if people dont even know their saviors real name then I'm not optimistic about people remembering the soldiers names...

**Justinian** · December 15, 2005, 02:32 PM

Originally Posted by RZZZA

I mean, most christians dont even know that Jesus Christ wasnt actually his name...It was Joshua Ben Joseph (might have spelled it wrong)...

If you're going to call Jesus Christ wrong because it's a transliterated name, don't use another transliteration.

Yeshua. OK? K.

Wonder why none of our defenders of faith and freedom on TWC are signing up.

If you could sign up under 18 a lot of people would be, including me.

**RZZZA** · December 15, 2005, 02:36 PM

Originally Posted by Justinian

If you're going to call Jesus Christ wrong because it's a transliterated name, don't use another transliteration.

Yeshua. OK? K.

Whatever...If I actually took the time I could probably find about a dozen different names for Christ. But the important thing is that people dont call him by the name that he was actually born with. I think thats something...it may not be terribly important, but I think its something worth noting.