islamic musket

[ALFAJI]

hi all

i want to ask you what was the first Islamic state that used musket in its wars ?

[The Noble Lord]

Am not sure but it is highly likely it was the Mamelukes in their mopping-up operations of the last Crusader bastions in the Middle east that they used early and primitive version of a musket. Later it was the Ottomans who most videly used the handguns including muskets prior to the attack on Constantinople in 1453.

[alhoon]

Am not sure but it is highly likely it was the Mamelukes in their mopping-up operations of the last Crusader bastions in the Middle east that they used early and primitive version of a musket. Later it was the Ottomans who most videly used the handguns including muskets prior to the attack on Constantinople in 1453.

Muskets in 1450?

[Crimson Scythe]

Muskets in 1450?

I think he might have meant an arquebus. These were beginning to replace the primitive hand-cannons by about this time. The Ottomans, in particular the Janissaries, began adopting matchlock arquebuses just before the Battle of Varna, though I could only guess at how common they might have been, as these guns would have had to compete with the composite bow.

[The Noble Lord]

Muskets in 1450?

Not the conventional musket that we know from the American revolution and Napoleonic wars but the primitive version of arquebus and matchlocks of most rudimentary nature. We know from the Venetian accounts that "Egyptians" at the time used some sort of handgun which could fire a lighting ball. And "Egyptians" could only be Mamelukes which at the time were the first-class military power in the Eastern Mediterranean.

[6644kp]

Well I think guns (as artillery) were used by the Caliphate of Corduba, but muskets well probably the Ottomans.

[Erebus Pasha]

I would say the Ottomans were the first to widely use the musket.

[Their Law]

Wasn't their initially a widespread disdain towards the use of firearms in the Islamic world (notable exception being the Ottomans). I'll have to look it up but there's a reference to a Mamluk general pleading with his Ottoman opponent (during the Ottoman -Mamluk war) to cease the use of firearms in the battle, his reasoning being that they were they were the product of Christian thought and thus unworthy of being used by warriors of the Islamic world.

[6644kp]

Wasn't their initially a widespread disdain towards the use of firearms in the Islamic world (notable exception being the Ottomans). I'll have to look it up but there's a reference to a Mamluk general pleading with his Ottoman opponent (during the Ottoman -Mamluk war) to cease the use of firearms in the battle, his reasoning being that they were they were the product of Christian thought and thus unworthy of being used by warriors of the Islamic world.

Emm no cannons and gunpowder weapons were used in the islamic east before the West.

[Erebus Pasha]

Emm no cannons and gunpowder weapons were used in the islamic east before the West.

Hmmm...I'm not so sure. Regarding the Ottomans, they seemed to adopt firearms from the Hungarian enemies they faced rather than such influences being passed on from the east. They may have have been primitive cannon on the battlefield of Kosovo but it is unknown on which side they were used. The earliest instances of cannon being used in Europe and the Middle East occurred during pretty much the same period - i.e. by the early 14th century.

[jo the greek]

The term islamic musket is terrible

[Dr. Oza]

Emm no cannons and gunpowder weapons were used in the islamic east before the West.

well gunpowder travelled east to west so .. um yea..

the thing with the ottomans was that, and this goes along with steppe mentality, whoever was qualified and skilled, they would employ and use them, so people like Urban the hungarian who was banished from hungary but was a master gunsmith, and even many people escaping from timur or others in the east

they would employ them, venetians, chinese, tatars, hungarians, french, poles, russians, arabs, jews, etc

so they were at the top of gunpowder technology until the 1700s or so ...

but even at 1699 at vienna, they had impressive cannonry

the first to use them would probably be the muslimized mongols, they had many chinese gunners and gun wielding soldiers

chinese were using matchlock rifles in about 1000s

muslim had gunpowder and muskets before europeans, the andalucian muslims used them, so did the mameluks in 1240 against the mongosl


this gives a good overview

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunpowder

first use in europe is reported at around 1260s by robert bacon when some rulers imported muslim gunmakers

[Erebus Pasha]

so they were at the top of gunpowder technology until the 1700s or so ...

but even at 1699 at vienna, they had impressive cannonry

Actually the Ottomans were forced into primarily using sapping and mining to reduce Vienna as Kara Mustafa, for whatever reason, had neglected to bring enough heavy cannon.

[Nik]

Does the thread starter mean the use of general hand-held black powder weapons or in the distinct weapon known as Musket?

[Chukada1]

What the is an islamic musket?

And will it explode in a market?

[jbersie]

Muskets appeared in the muslim world in the 16th century and i believe the ottomans were the first ones to use them

[Dr. Oza]

Muskets appeared in the muslim world in the 16th century and i believe the ottomans were the first ones to use them

READ MY POST

muskets appeared in the muslim world in 1200s, before europe...

it makes sense.SINCE.. they travelled westwards from china, and the muslim world was between europe and china

first were muslimized mongols such as the ilkhanids, the mameluks, the andalucians, and yes turks..

[jo the greek]

READ MY POST

muskets appeared in the muslim world in 1200s, before europe...

it makes sense.SINCE.. they travelled westwards from china, and the muslim world was between europe and china

first were muslimized mongols such as the ilkhanids, the mameluks, the andalucians, and yes turks..

Do you know what the word musket means cause musket didnt existed before before 1600 unless

you have a time machine do you mean Hand cannon or something similar

[ivan_the_terrible]

One of the reasons that Ottomans were able to beat the Mamluks so comprehensively was because they had more firarms and cannons than the Mamluks.

And Ottomans got this technology from western European.

[Nik]

I just undermines Sipahizade's fervently preached argument when he doesn't seem to comprehend the differences between rifles, musket, arquebuses and hand cannons. Though the whole discussion is for nothing as long as the thread starter does not clarifiy his question.