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  1. #1
    pchalk's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Dry your clothes outside, obscene?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-11417677

    was reading this today and i remembered back to when i first heard there were communities in the US that did this.it surprised me. i remember on my many trips to visit family in Europe this is a common sight. the way i saw it it didnt matter to me if people dried their clothes outside. in my area its a little to humid all the time to dry ur clothes outside but my climate of course does not encompass all of the US.

    The fight against clothes line bans

    By Tom Geoghegan BBC News Magazine
    For decades, the clothes line has had an image problem in the US but, ahead of a rally to highlight the benefits of natural drying, is it about to be reclaimed?
    continued
    There is a new protest movement sweeping the US and at its heart are two sticks and a piece of string.
    Continue reading the main story In today's Magazine



    Upon the humble clothes line, a battle line has been drawn that embodies a uniquely American clash of ideas about class, liberty and the environment.

    Rules imposed by community associations and landlords forbid tens of millions of home owners to dry their washing outside because, they say, it's unsightly and even lowers property prices.

    But a number of clothes line rebels have risked legal action by disobeying these rules, saying it is the duty of Americans to reduce their carbon footprint and leave their energy-hungry tumble dryers idle.
    This Sunday their supporters will make their feelings known by holding a rally in Concord, New Hampshire to promote line drying.

    These unlikely dissenters come in all ages and from all backgrounds. After moving to Witney Ridge in Pennsylvania nearly three years ago, Deborah Brensinger, a 55-year-old nurse, immediately began hanging her clothes in her back yard.

    "Our government is trying to encourage working with the environment and doing things to cut down electricity, yet here's something totally free.

    "I get to see my neighbours, it's clean and it smells good. It's a contemplative practice. I don't rush it, I enjoy it. It relieves stress. You can do it leisurely at your own pace, in a world that's so fast-paced."
    Continue reading the main story 'I must fight back'


    Wei Wang (above) a 49-year-old mother-of-three in Maryland, is continuing to hang out her washing, despite the threat of legal action.

    "Energy savings and reducing pollution is more important, so I think I should stand up and fight back. I grew up in China and I was taught by my mother to use this method all the time.
    "I've lived in Europe too, and it's only Americans that don't like clothes lines."

    She says she checked her neighbours had no objections, and the line can't be seen from the street. But after the threat of legal action from her association, the mother-of-three now dries her five loads of washing a week on drying racks around her home, much to her annoyance.

    "Everyone thinks people do whatever they want in their back yards. If I went out there in a bikini, it wouldn't matter but hanging my clothes out does. It doesn't make sense."

    Mrs Brensinger is one of 60 million Americans living in about 300,000 communities governed by home-owning associations, where living in a flat, mobile home or even detached house, means accepting regulations on the appearance of homes and gardens.

    The majority of these associations ban or restrict the use of clothes lines but, with a mindful eye on energy consumption, six states have fought back.

    Florida, Utah, Maine, Vermont, Colorado and Hawaii have passed laws restricting the rights of housing authorities to stop residents from using clotheslines, and several other states including Pennsylvania are considering similar bills.
    Continue reading the main story 'Prudery plays a part'


    Australian anti-nuclear advocate Helen Caldicott spent 18 years living in the US.
    "Tumble drying is absolutely unnecessary. They can hang their clothes out in summer and by the furnace in the basement in winter. But they are being brainwashed that they need to machine dry.
    "Part of it is also that they don't want to be looking at Mrs Brown's underwear. I suppose that prudery comes from the Puritans."

    The pro-clothesline movement's champion is Alexander Lee, the 36-year-old founder of Project Laundry List, an organisation based in Vermont that campaigns for the so-called right to dry. He says its supporters are drawn from all social groups and backgrounds, uniting "libertarians and environmentalists, Christian mothers and radical homeowners".

    When a college student in 1995, one statement uttered by a visiting anti-nuclear lecturer, Helen Caldicott, inspired him: "If we all did things like hang out our clothes, we could shut down the nuclear industry."

    This energy-saving message forms the central plank of his campaign. Official figures say that tumble dryers guzzle 6% of household electricity, second only to fridges, but Lee estimates the actual figure to be three times higher. He says that if one in three Americans started line drying for five months of the year, 2.2m tonnes of CO2 would have been prevented from entering the atmosphere by 2020.

    "The movement is increasing because we have these three problems that are converging - the energy crisis, the climate crisis and the personal finance crisis. We believe that it's a patriotic duty to conserve energy. There should be a victory clothes line at the White House."

    In Italy, washing lines are a common sight
    His campaign outlines other reasons to support line drying - good exercise, nice-smelling clothes, saving $25 (£16) a month in electricity bills, avoiding fire hazards and even mood-improving. And then there's also his aesthetic admiration for the clothes line, "its Gestalt, its organic beauty, its simple functionality, the colourful panorama dancing on the line".

    British film maker Stephen Lake has travelled around the US, speaking to people affected by these regulations. The 24-year-old, who writes and directs a film on the subject, called Drying For Freedom, out early next year, says: "If a buyer goes down a neighbourhood and they see clothes hanging on a line, they would question the lifestyle that they would be buying into, because it might suggest that person can't afford a dryer.

    Mary Lou Sayer's trouble drying clothes - a clip from Drying For Freedom

    "These communities are based around setting a neutral aesthetic, so that every house in the street does not suggest anything about the person inside. The English middle class would probably not understand that."

    A few associations in the UK also restrict line drying, and many British people would endorse the view that clothes flapping in the wind can look unsightly. But it doesn't have the same stigma in the UK, where only 45% of households own a tumble dryer, compared with 79% in the US.
    For many Americans, clothes lines are an unwanted reminder of a more frugal age, says Dave Rapaport, senior director of corporate consciousness at Seventh Generation, a firm that sells eco-friendly household products.

    "Hanging clothes was the norm prior to the advent of the suburban ideal of modern living in the 1950s. Partly driven by the need to get women back out in the workforce after World War II, partly the need to sell electricity and the appliances being invented to use it, and partly by a idealised notion of progress, clotheslines became a symbol of the life people were leaving behind."
    Continue reading the main story Tumble dryers


    • 79% of American households have a tumble dryer, compared to 45% in the UK and 4% in Italy
    • 20% of Americans live in homes subject to clothes line bans
    • It usually costs at least $100 to run a dryer for one year
    • Some people have reported a 50% drop in electricity bills when they go 'cold turkey' on tumble drying
    Sources: Project Laundry List, Energy Information Administration, Defra


    He can sense that belief now being slowly eroded, not just because of energy concerns, but by a desire for simplicity, the aesthetic appeal of line drying and a nostalgic return to traditional family chores.
    And in the same way that many Americans have embraced the reusable shopping bag, he believes they could learn to love line drying again.

    But there are many who say they shouldn't.

    Frank Rathbun is spokesman for the Community Associations Institute, which represents tens of thousands of associations nationwide. Most of them do restrict the use of clothes lines, he says, but for good reason.

    "More often than not, the rules governing associations were put in place by developers and builders when the communities were being built.

    "In most cases, the decision is based largely on community aesthetics. Developers and builders are trying to sell homes, and I think most would tell you that clotheslines could detract from the overall appearance and kerb appeal of the community, and therefore sales.
    Continue reading the main story Do clothes lines lower property prices?

    One home-owning association claimed the sight of washing lines could reduce neighbouring property values by up to 15%. But the National Association of Realtors says it's not possible to put a value on this effect. A spokeswoman said that clothes lines were among the biggest sources of complaints among homeowners, in a recent survey, but the impact depended on neighbourhood norms. An area with a high number might leave a less negative impression than just one in a different area, depending on the buyer's expectations and values. She said: "The issue just underscores the fact that many things affect a property value - the home's condition, amenities in relation to other homes in the area, and the neighbourhood itself."

    "Regardless of the issue, appearance and kerb appeal have a direct impact on property values and the sale of properties. I think it's safe to say that most associations have kept these rules in place for those very reasons."

    Many people are attracted by the these communities because of the rules governing how they look, he says, and in the same way that many residents don't want to open their curtains - front or back - to see rubbish or an abandoned car, they might not want to see a bunch of laundry hanging on a clothesline either. The same rules prohibit statues, fountains and motor boats.

    A national survey in 2007 indicated overwhelming opposition among residents to state laws preempting association rules on clotheslines, he says, suggesting that the way some state lawmakers have overturned these restrictions on line drying highlights a more fundamental issue about the collective right of homeowners in private communities to establish the rules for their own neighbourhoods.

    "The bottom line is that as a private entity, each association is in the best position to make these determinations. Remember, association boards are elected by their neighbours to serve the best interests of the community as a whole.
    Continue reading the main story A tragic dispute

    In 2008, a man was shot dead in Verona, Massachusetts, during a dispute apparently over a clothes line. Police said the neighbours were arguing after one told the other to stop hanging his laundry outside.

    "It's also important to remember that homeowners in associations have a contractual obligation to abide by rules that have been put in place to preserve the character of the community, protect property values and meet the established expectations of residents in that community.

    "If a large percentage of owners really want to change a particular rule, they can probably make that happen."
    Below is a selection of your comments
    Last edited by Darth Red; October 08, 2010 at 02:01 PM. Reason: long copy and paste jobs in spoilers please

  2. #2

    Default Re: Dry your clothes outside, obscene?

    First they came for my SUV, but I said nothing.
    Then they came for my water bottles, but I said nothing.
    Then they came for my clothes dryer, and I told them to fark off.

    Clothes lines are always associated with poor people in the US. From an aesthetic point of view, they look tacky, and in crowded areas all you would see is clothes line after clothes line. I've always argued that the environmental movement would like to put us back at 1840's style living and this is one of those things.

    The argument here is about property rights and while Home Owner Associations are often Nazi like, if you signed the paper thats the rules you agreed to.
    "When I die, I want to die peacefully in my sleep, like Fidel Castro, not screaming in terror, like his victims."

    My shameful truth.

  3. #3
    MAXlMUS's Avatar Decanus
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    Default Re: Dry your clothes outside, obscene?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phier View Post
    First they came for my SUV, but I said nothing.
    Then they came for my water bottles, but I said nothing.
    Then they came for my clothes dryer, and I told them to fark off.

    Clothes lines are always associated with poor people in the US. From an aesthetic point of view, they look tacky, and in crowded areas all you would see is clothes line after clothes line. I've always argued that the environmental movement would like to put us back at 1840's style living and this is one of those things.

    The argument here is about property rights and while Home Owner Associations are often Nazi like, if you signed the paper thats the rules you agreed to.
    you probably don't own house/land

  4. #4

    Default Re: Dry your clothes outside, obscene?

    Quote Originally Posted by MAXlMUS View Post
    you probably don't own house/land


    And you conclude that from what?
    "When I die, I want to die peacefully in my sleep, like Fidel Castro, not screaming in terror, like his victims."

    My shameful truth.

  5. #5
    MAXlMUS's Avatar Decanus
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    Default Re: Dry your clothes outside, obscene?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phier View Post


    And you conclude that from what?
    from the fact that you think that clothes lines are for poor people. if you tried it once you would see why it's so conveniant

  6. #6

    Default Re: Dry your clothes outside, obscene?

    Quote Originally Posted by MAXlMUS View Post
    from the fact that you think that clothes lines are for poor people. if you tried it once you would see why it's so conveniant
    I can see you don't live in a wealthy area

    Quote Originally Posted by Pickle_mole View Post
    Homeowners association nazis, I HATE THEM!
    The problem I see it is they tend to end up being run by people with way to much time on their hands who want to make things 'right' the way they see it.

    On the other hand there is value to it, as if you have a area with $500k homes, which may represent a substantial part of someones life time wealth, its not exactly fair if the guy next to you decided to paint his house rainbow colored and put up homoerotic statues.
    Last edited by Phier; October 08, 2010 at 12:29 PM.
    "When I die, I want to die peacefully in my sleep, like Fidel Castro, not screaming in terror, like his victims."

    My shameful truth.

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    Big War Bird's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Dry your clothes outside, obscene?

    Quote Originally Posted by MAXlMUS View Post
    from the fact that you think that clothes lines are for poor people. if you tried it once you would see why it's so conveniant
    Clothelines are for poor and/or suckers.

    I grew up poor in a household of 9 people. We didn't just have a clothesline, we had a clothesline yard.
    As a teenager, I was taken to various houses and flats above takeaways in the north of England, to be beaten, tortured and raped over 100 times. I was called a “white slag” and “white ****” as they beat me.

    -Ella Hill

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    Default Re: Dry your clothes outside, obscene?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phier View Post
    The argument here is about property rights and while Home Owner Associations are often Nazi like, if you signed the paper thats the rules you agreed to.
    Home Owner Associations are tier organizations. I would only sign one if it was VERY flexible.


    Honestly, clothes lines in the backyard doesn't do jack to property values. Crime levels and the local schools are infinitely more important.

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    gaunty14's Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Re: Dry your clothes outside, obscene?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phier View Post
    First they came for my SUV, but I said nothing.
    Then they came for my water bottles, but I said nothing.
    Then they came for my clothes dryer, and I told them to fark off.

    Clothes lines are always associated with poor people in the US. From an aesthetic point of view, they look tacky, and in crowded areas all you would see is clothes line after clothes line. I've always argued that the environmental movement would like to put us back at 1840's style living and this is one of those things.

    The argument here is about property rights and while Home Owner Associations are often Nazi like, if you signed the paper thats the rules you agreed to.
    whats wrong with a clothes line, I'm upper middle class and our household has one.
    Nearly everyone in England with a garden has one. In the UK clothes lines are not associated with poor. What happens if you need to wash a single shirt, you do it by hand and peg it on the clothes line rather than waste an entire washing/ tumble dry cycle

    "will help build battle station for food" - or rep

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    Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Dry your clothes outside, obscene?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phier View Post
    First they came for my SUV, but I said nothing.
    Then they came for my water bottles, but I said nothing.
    Then they came for my clothes dryer, and I told them to fark off.

    Clothes lines are always associated with poor people in the US. From an aesthetic point of view, they look tacky, and in crowded areas all you would see is clothes line after clothes line. I've always argued that the environmental movement would like to put us back at 1840's style living and this is one of those things.

    The argument here is about property rights and while Home Owner Associations are often Nazi like, if you signed the paper thats the rules you agreed to.
    You probably don't own any fancy clothing.

    Most of my playa stuff has "do not tumle-dry" in the tag.
    Quote Originally Posted by snuggans View Post
    we can safely say that a % of those 130 were Houthi/Iranian militants that needed to be stopped unfortunately

  11. #11

    Default Re: Dry your clothes outside, obscene?

    Homeowners association nazis, I HATE THEM!
    I come in peace, I didn't bring artillery. But I am pleading with you with tears in my eyes: If you F___ with me, I'll kill you all.
    - Marine General James Mattis, to Iraqi tribal leaders

    Nostalgia aint as good as it used to be

  12. #12

    Default Re: Dry your clothes outside, obscene?

    I kind of agree with Phier here , If you agreed to a certain set of rules you should follow it. I dont know if its legitimate to think clotheline have an effect on property values, But if they do then one hould probably be respectful of the fact that other people might not want them, and if you agreed not to use them then thats the end of it.
    "If you can't get rid of the skeleton in your closet, you'd best teach it to dance." - George Bernard Shaw (1856-1950)

  13. #13

    Default Re: Dry your clothes outside, obscene?

    C'mon, in Naples it's a tourist atraction


  14. #14

    Default Re: Dry your clothes outside, obscene?

    Different countries, different rules I suppose but it seems that parts of the US are a little too snobby and arrogant
    I live in England and I own my own house and I use (weather permitting) a clothes line, none of my neighbours seem to have them although some use a rotary style line, but no one would think/try to complain as it is good for my carbon footprint and uses zero electricity
    Have to say very very few residents associations would ever try to stop washing lines and would probably become a laughing stock if they did

  15. #15

    Default Re: Dry your clothes outside, obscene?



    Free shade



    Can't wait to get back to that........
    "When I die, I want to die peacefully in my sleep, like Fidel Castro, not screaming in terror, like his victims."

    My shameful truth.

  16. #16
    Visna's Avatar Comrade Natascha
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    Default Re: Dry your clothes outside, obscene?

    Land of the free, huh?

    Under the stern but loving patronage of Nihil.

  17. #17
    Heinz Guderian's Avatar *takes off trousers
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    Default Re: Dry your clothes outside, obscene?

    Quote Originally Posted by Visna View Post
    Land of the free, huh?
    lol. And i thought republicans "libertarians" were against government in their homes and on their clotheslines.




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    Big War Bird's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Dry your clothes outside, obscene?

    Quote Originally Posted by Heinz Guderian View Post
    lol. And i thought republicans "libertarians" were against government in their homes and on their clotheslines.
    Home owners associations are not government. They are private entities. Particiaption is not mandatory.
    As a teenager, I was taken to various houses and flats above takeaways in the north of England, to be beaten, tortured and raped over 100 times. I was called a “white slag” and “white ****” as they beat me.

    -Ella Hill

  19. #19
    Heinz Guderian's Avatar *takes off trousers
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    Default Re: Dry your clothes outside, obscene?

    Quote Originally Posted by Big War Bird View Post
    Home owners associations are not government. They are private entities. Particiaption is not mandatory.
    These Americans who are not allowed to hang washing outside. Do they own the property and land on which they wish to dry their clothes outside upon?




  20. #20
    Thanatos's Avatar Now Is Not the Time
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    Default Re: Dry your clothes outside, obscene?

    Quote Originally Posted by Big War Bird View Post
    Home owners associations are not government. They are private entities. Particiaption is not mandatory.
    Yes and no. Some places like Santa Monica, it's pretty much all but mandatory. Can't even trim your tree without submitting a request form.

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