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    Default Human life vs. the Earth

    Human life vs. the Earth
    Dec 14, 2005
    by John Stossel ( bio | archive )

    They've been at it again. In Montreal, a bunch of politicians and activists just finished another round of negotiations among themselves about just how much of our freedom to take away in pursuit of a greener planet. That's "green," as in "envious" -- of the people who were able to invent, build industries and develop economies in generations past, before the environmentalists convinced world "leaders" that products that improve human life, and the factories that make those products, must be limited in the name of the Earth.

    Meanwhile, in Ntinda, Uganda, that country's vice president was calling on world leaders to help save human lives -- by supporting Uganda's use of a chemical the fear of which galvanized the environmental movement decades ago.

    On the surface, these are two different environmental stories: one about chemicals that supposedly might raise temperatures, and one about a chemical that can damage eggshells. But the underlying issue is the same: Should the law promote human life, or should it sacrifice human beings and their quality of life on the altar of Gaia?

    Two to three million people die of malaria every year, Uganda's health minister has said, because the U.S. government is afraid of a chemical called DDT. The United States does spend your tax dollars trying to fight malaria in Africa, but it won't fund DDT. The money goes for things like mosquito netting over beds (even though not everyone in Africa even has a bed). The office that dispenses those funds, the Agency for International Development, acknowledges DDT is safe, but it will not spent a penny on it.


    Why? Fifty years ago, Americans sprayed tons of DDT everywhere. Farmers used it to repel bugs, and health officials to fight mosquitoes that carry malaria. Nobody worried much about chemicals then. People really did just sit there and eat in clouds of DDT. When the trucks came to spray, people often acted as if the ice cream truck had come. They were so happy to have mosquitoes repelled. Huge amounts of DDT were sprayed on food and people, who just breathed it in.

    Did they all get cancer and die?

    Nope.

    Amazingly, there's no evidence that all this spraying hurt people. It killed mosquitoes. (DDT also kills bedbugs, which are now making a comeback.) It did cause some harm, however. It threatened bird populations by thinning eggshells. In 1962, the book "Silent Spring" by Rachel Carson made the damage famous and helped create our fear of chemicals. The book raised some serious questions about the use of DDT, but the legitimate nature of those questions was lost in the media feeding frenzy that followed. DDT was a "Killer Chemical," and the press was off on another fear campaign. DDT was banned.

    But fear campaigns kill people, too. DDT is a great pesticide. The amount was the reason for the DDT problems. We sprayed far more than is needed to prevent the spread of malaria. It's sprayed on walls, and one spraying will keep mosquitoes at bay for half a year. It's a very efficient malaria fighter. But today, DDT is rarely used. America's demonization of it caused others to shun it. And while the U.S. government spends tax money fighting malaria in Africa, it refuses to put that money into DDT. It might save lives, but it might offend environmentalist zealots and create political fallout.

    DDT was banned in America after we started celebrating Earth Day. Environmentalists made a lot of claims then -- I have an amusing clip of an environmentalist exclaiming, "You are breathing probably the last of the oxygen!" Soon after that the environmentalists mounted their campaign against DDT. The result? A huge resurgence of malaria, more than 50 million dead, mostly children.

    "If it's a chemical, it must be bad," said scientist Amir Attaran. "If it's DDT, it must be awful. And that's fine if you're a rich, white environmentalist. It's not so fine if you're a poor black kid who is about to lose his life from malaria."

    Attaran is leading a campaign of hundreds of scientists urging the use of DDT to combat malaria. It's needed especially in Africa, he says, because malaria kills thousands there every day. "If I were to characterize what USAID does on malaria," he said, "I'd call it medical malpractice, I would call it murderous."

    Award-winning news correspondent John Stossel is co-anchor of ABC News "20/20" and author of "Give Me a Break."
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  2. #2

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    DDT was banned because it was killing off many birds, including our national symbold the Bald Eagle. Also their was studies saying that it DID cause problems in people, in many areas where DDT was widely used their were whats called "cancer spikes".

    I'm glad DDT was banned, i would rather some people rarely dying than having absolutely no nature left in existance. In Lake Michigan their used to be 100s of types of fish, not less than 10 exist, most of them being not native.

    Humans and animals are very simular in what causes problems, thats why animal testing is done. The fact that is was causing all these animals to die should show enough that it causes problems in humans as well.

    IMO none of these should be used, all of these types of chemicals are POISON, literally. They all eventually are shown to cause cancer and death in the long term. Sure i'm not some freak whose fearful of this and only buys organic foods, etc. That is because now they actually study these and make sure we are protected from being harmed by these. You know how they test these? They test them on animals... the same thing that DDT killed in mass numbers. So its obvious that DDT is harmful, and therefore useless for that matter.
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    w00t for screwing our planet over
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  4. #4

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    Raping the planet will eventually bight you in the butt, how is being farsighted for the very sake of humanity being a zealot?

    Raping the planet for the sake of money is wrong, although some environmentalist groups go to far and I'm not a super environmentalist, the principle stands, if you do not make efforts to conserve the planet, will are all screwed, not us, but our grandchildren and their children, and their children.

    We'll ride the spiral to the end and may just go where no one's been.
    "The politics of the Karl Rove era were designed to distract and divide the very people who would ordinarily be rebelling against the deterioration of their way of life. Working Americans have been repeatedly seduced at the polls by emotional issues such as the predictable mantra of “God, guns, gays, abortion, and the flag” while their way if life shifted ineluctably beneath their feet." - Senator Jim Webb

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    Kscott's Avatar New and Improved!
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    I prefer human life to the enviroment, BUT with no enviroment how are humans supposed to live?

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  6. #6

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    the whole planet will end up like easter island if we dont do something about it

    or of course we could pull the ole superpower trick and let the rest of the world starve while we americans grow even fatter
    The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it will not be used until they try and take it away.
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  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kanaric
    DDT was banned because it was killing off many birds, including our national symbold the Bald Eagle.
    Bald eagles were reportedly threatened with extinction in 1921 -- 25 years before widespread use of DDT.
    [Van Name, WG. 1921. Ecology 2:76]

    Alaska paid over $100,000 in bounties for 115,000 bald eagles between 1917 and 1942.
    [Anon. Science News Letter, July 3, 1943]

    The bald eagle had vanished from New England by 1937.
    [Bent, AC. 1937. Raptorial Birds of America. US National Museum Bull 167:321-349]

    After 15 years of heavy and widespread usage of DDT, Audubon Society ornithologists counted 25 percent more eagles per observer in 1960 than during the pre-DDT 1941 bird census.
    [Marvin, PH. 1964 Birds on the rise. Bull Entomol Soc Amer 10(3):184-186; Wurster, CF. 1969 Congressional Record S4599, May 5, 1969; Anon. 1942. The 42nd Annual Christmas Bird Census. Audubon Magazine 44:1-75 (Jan/Feb 1942; Cruickshank, AD (Editor). 1961. The 61st Annual Christmas Bird Census. Audubon Field Notes 15(2):84-300; White-Stevens, R.. 1972. Statistical analyses of Audubon Christmas Bird censuses. Letter to New York Times, August 15, 1972]

    No significant correlation between DDE residues and shell thickness was reported in a large series of bald eagle eggs.
    [Postupalsky, S. 1971. (DDE residues and shell thickness). Canadian Wildlife Service manuscript, April 8, 1971]

    U.S. Forest Service studies reported an increase in nesting bald eagle productivity (51 in 1964 to 107 in 1970).
    [U.S. Forest Service (Milwaukee, WI). 1970. Annual Report on Bald Eagle Status]

    U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service biologists fed large doses of DDT to captive bald eagles for 112 days and concluded that "DDT residues encountered by eagles in the environment would not adversely affect eagles or their eggs."
    [Stickel, L. 1966. Bald eagle-pesticide relationships. Trans 31st N Amer Wildlife Conference, pp.190-200]

    Wildlife authorities attributed bald eagle population reductions to a "widespread loss of suitable habitat", but noted that "illegal shooting continues to be the leading cause of direct mortality in both adult and immature bald eagles."
    [Anon.. 1978. U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, Endangered Species Tech Bull 3:8-9]

    Every bald eagle found dead in the U.S., between 1961-1977 (266 birds) was analyzed by U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service biologists who reported no adverse effects caused by DDT or its residues.
    [Reichel, WL. 1969. (Pesticide residues in 45 bald eagles found dad in the U.S. 1964-1965). Pesticides Monitoring J 3(3)142-144; Belisle, AA. 1972. (Pesticide residues and PCBs and mercury, in bald eagles found dead in the U.S. 1969-1970). Pesticides Monitoring J 6(3): 133-138; Cromartie, E. 1974. (Organochlorine pesticides and PCBs in 37 bald eagles found dead in the U.S. 1971-1972). Pesticides Monitoring J 9:11-14; Coon, NC. 1970. (Causes of bald eagle mortality in the US 1960-1065). Journal of Wildlife Diseases 6:72-76]

    U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service biologists linked high intake of mercury from contaminated fish with eagle reproductive problems.
    [Spann, JW, RG Heath, JF Kreitzer, LN Locke. 1972. (Lethal and reproductive effects of mercury on birds) Science 175:328- 331]

    Shooting, power line electrocution, collisions in flight and poisoning from eating ducks containing lead shot were ranked by the National Wildlife Federation as late as 1984 as the leading causes of eagle deaths.
    [Anon. 1984. National Wildlife Federation publication. (Eagle deaths)]


    Quote Originally Posted by Kanaric
    Also their was studies saying that it DID cause problems in people, in many areas where DDT was widely used their were whats called "cancer spikes".
    Feeding primates more than 33,000 times the average daily human exposure to DDT (as estimated in 1969 and 1972) was "inconclusive with respect to a carcinogenic effect of DDT in nonhuman primates."
    [J Cancer Res Clin Oncol 1999;125(3-4):219-25]

    A nested case-control study was conducted to examine the association between serum concentrations of DDE and PCBs and the development of breast cancer up to 20 years later. Cases (n = 346) and controls (n = 346) were selected from cohorts of women who donated blood in 1974, 1989, or both, and were matched on age, race, menopausal status, and month and year of blood donation. "Even after 20 years of follow-up, exposure to relatively high concentrations of DDE or PCBs showed no evidence of contributing to an increased risk of breast cancer."
    [Cancer Epidemiol Biomarkers Prev 1999 Jun;8(6):525-32]

    To prospectively evaluate relationships of organochlorine pesticides and PCBs with breast cancer, a case-control study nested in a cohort using the Columbia, Missouri Breast Cancer Serum Bank. Women donated blood in 1977- 87, and during up to 9.5 years follow-up, 105 donors who met the inclusion criteria for the current study were diagnosed with breast cancer. For each case, two controls matched on age and date of blood collection were selected. Five DDT analogs, 13 other organochlorine pesticides, and 27 PCBs were measured in serum. Results of this study do not support a role for organochlorine pesticides and PCBs in breast cancer etiology.
    [Cancer Causes Control 1999 Feb;10(1):1-11]

    A pooled analysis examined whether exposure to DDT was associated with the risk of non-Hodgkin's lymphoma among male farmers. Data from three case-control studies from four midwestern states in the United States (Nebraska, Iowa, Minnesota, Kansas) were pooled to carry out analyses of 993 cases and 2918 controls. No strong consistent evidence was found for an association between exposure to DDT and risk of non-Hodgkin's lymphoma.
    [Occup Environ Med 1998 Aug;55(8):522-7]

    "We measured plasma levels of DDE and PCBs prospectively among 240 women who gave a blood sample in 1989 or 1990 and who were subsequently given a diagnosis of breast cancer before June 1, 1992. We compared these levels with those measured in matched control women in whom breast cancer did not develop. Data on DDE were available for 236 pairs, and data on PCBs were available for 230 pairs. Our data do not support the hypothesis that exposure to [DDT] and PCBs increases the risk of breast cancer."
    [N Engl J Med 1997;337:1253-8]

    "... weakly estrogenic organochlorine compounds such as PCBs, DDT, and DDE are not a cause of breast cancer."
    [http://www.nejm.org/content/1997/0337/0018/1303.asp]

    To examine any possible links between exposure to DDE, the persistent metabolite of the pesticide dicophane (DDT), and breast cancer, 265 postmenopausal women with breast cancer and 341 controls matched for age and center were studied. Women with breast cancer had adipose DDE concentrations 9.2% lower than control women. No increased risk of breast cancer was found at higher concentrations. The odds ratio of breast cancer, adjusted for age and center, for the highest versus the lowest fourth of DDE distribution was 0.73 (95% confidence interval 0.44 to 1.21) and decreased to 0.48 (0.25 to 0.95; P for trend = 0.02) after adjustment for body mass index, age at first birth, and current alcohol drinking. Adjustment for other risk factors did not materially affect these estimates. This study does not support the hypothesis that DDE increases risk of breast cancer in postmenopausal women in Europe.
    [BMJ 1997 Jul 12;315(7100):81-5]

    No correlation at the population level can be demonstrated between exposures to DDT and the incidence of cancer at any site. It is concluded that DDT has had no significant impact on human cancer patterns and is unlikely to be an important carcinogen for man at previous exposure levels, within the statistical limitations of the data.
    [IARC Sci Publ 1985;(65):107-17]

    Syrian golden hamsters were fed for their lifespan a diet containing 0, 125, 250 and 500 parts per million (ppm) of DDT. The incidence of tumor bearing animals was 13% among control females and ranged between 11-20% in treated females. In control males 8% had tumors. The incidence of tumor bearing animals among treated males ranged between 17-28%.
    [Tumori 1982 Feb 28;68(1):5-10]

    None of 35 workers heavily exposed to DDT (600 times the average U.S. exposure for 9 to 19 years) developed cancer.
    [Laws, ER. 1967. Arch Env Health 15:766-775]

    Men who voluntarily ingested 35 mgs of DDT daily for nearly two years were carefully examined for years and "developed no adverse effects."
    [Hayes, W. 1956. JAMA 162:890-897]

    DDT was found to reduce tumors in animals.
    [Laws, ER. 1971. Arch. Env Health, 23:181-184; McLean, AEM & EK McLean. 1967. Proc Nutr Soc 26;Okey, AB. 1972. Life Sciences 11:833-843;Sillinskas, KC & AB Okey. 1975. J Natl Cancer Inst 55:653- 657, 1975]

    Rodent tests for a carcinogenic effect of DDT, DDE and TDE produced equivocal results despite extremely high doses (642 ppm of DDT, 3,295 ppm of TDE and 839 ppm of DDE).
    [National Toxicology Program, TR-131 Bioassays of DDT, TDE, and p,p'-DDE for Possible Carcinogenicity (CAS No. 50-29-3, CAS No. 72-54-8, CAS No. 72-55-9)]

    Human ingestion of DDT was estimated to average about 0.0026 milligrams per kilogram of body weight per day (mg/kg/day) about 0.18 milligrams per day.
    [Hayes, W. 1956. J Amer Medical Assn, Oct. 1956]

    In 1967, the daily average intake of DDT by 20 men with high occupational exposure was estimated to be 17.5 to 18 mg/man per day, as compared with an average of 0.04 mg/man per day for the general population.
    [IARC V.5, 1974].

    Dr. Alice Ottoboni, toxicologist for the state of California, estimated that the average American ingests between 0.0006 mg/kg/day and 0.0001 mg/kg/day of DDT.
    [Ottoboni, A. et al. California's Health, August 1969 & May 1972]

    "In the United States, the average amount of DDT and DDE eaten daily in food in 1981 was 2.24 micrograms per day (ug/day) (0.000032 mg/kg/day), with root and leafy vegetables containing the highest amount. Meat, fish, and poultry also contain very low levels of these compounds."
    [Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry. 1989.Public Health Statement: DDT, DDE, and DDD]

    The World Health Organization set an acceptable daily intake of DDT for humans at 0.01 mg/kg/day.

    "Air samples in the United States have shown levels of DDT ranging from 0.00001 to 1.56 micrograms per cubic meter of air (ug/m3), depending on the location and year of sampling. Most reported samples were collected in the mid 1970s, and present levels are expected to be much lower. DDT and DDE have been reported in surface waters at levels of 0.001 micrograms per liter (ug/L), while DDD generally is not found in surface water. National soil testing programs in the early 1970s have reported levels in soil ranging from 0.18 to 5.86 parts per million (ppm)."
    [Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry. 1989.Public Health Statement: DDT, DDE, and DDD]



    Quote Originally Posted by Kanaric
    ...and therefore useless for that matter.
    It is? I know it's easy to say that without anything to back it up. To be sure, I really wish people wouldn't make baseless claims and act like it's hard science.

    So let's see who's behind the false alarm, shall we?

    Rachel Carson sounded the initial alarm against DDT, but represented the science of DDT erroneously in her 1962 book Silent Spring. Carson wrote "Dr. DeWitt's now classic experiments [on quail and pheasants] have now established the fact that exposure to DDT, even when doing no observable harm to the birds, may seriously affect reproduction. Quail into whose diet DDT was introduced throughout the breeding season survived and even produced normal numbers of fertile eggs. But few of the eggs hatched." DeWitt's 1956 article (in Journal of Agriculture and Food Chemistry) actually yielded a very different conclusion. Quail were fed 200 parts per million of DDT in all of their food throughout the breeding season. DeWitt reports that 80% of their eggs hatched, compared with the "control"" birds which hatched 83.9% of their eggs. Carson also omitted mention of DeWitt's report that "control" pheasants hatched only 57 percent of their eggs, while those that were fed high levels of DDT in all of their food for an entire year hatched more than 80% of their eggs.

    Population control advocates blamed DDT for increasing third world population. In the 1960s, World Health Organization authorities believed there was no alternative to the overpopulation problem but to assure than up to 40 percent of the children in poor nations would die of malaria. As an official of the Agency for International Development stated, "Rather dead than alive and riotously reproducing."
    [Desowitz, RS. 1992. Malaria Capers, W.W. Norton & Company]

    The environmental movement used DDT as a means to increase their power. Charles Wurster, chief scientist for the Environmental Defense Fund, commented, "If the environmentalists win on DDT, they will achieve a level of authority they have never had before.. In a sense, much more is at stake than DDT."
    [Seattle Times, October 5, 1969]

    Science journals were biased against DDT. Philip Abelson, editor of Science informed Dr. Thomas Jukes that Science would never publish any article on DDT that was not antagonistic.

    William Ruckelshaus, the administrator of the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency who made the ultimate decision to ban DDT in 1972, was a member of the Environmental Defense Fund. Ruckelshaus solicited donations for EDF on his personal stationery that read "EDF's scientists blew the whistle on DDT by showing it to be a cancer hazard, and three years later, when the dust had cleared, EDF had won."

    But as an assistant attorney general, William Ruckelshaus stated on August 31, 1970 in a U.S. Court of Appeals that "DDT has an amazing an exemplary record of safe use, does not cause a toxic response in man or other animals, and is not harmful. Carcinogenic claims regarding DDT are unproven speculation." But in a May 2, 1971 address to the Audubon Society, Ruckelshaus stated, "As a member of the Society, myself, I was highly suspicious of this compound, to put it mildly. But I was compelled by the facts to temper my emotions ... because the best scientific evidence available did not warrant such a precipitate action. However, we in the EPA have streamlined our administrative procedures so we can now suspend registration of DDT and the other persistent pesticides at any time during the period of review." Ruckelshaus later explained his ambivalence by stating that as assistant attorney general he was an advocate for the government, but as head of the EPA he was "a maker of policy."
    [Barrons, 10 November 1975]

    Environmental activists planned to defame scientists who defended DDT. In an uncontradicted deposition in a federal lawsuit, Victor Yannacone, a founder of the Environmental Defense Fund, testified that he attended a meeting in which Roland Clement of the Audubon Society and officials of the Environmental Defense Fund decided that University of California-Berkeley professor and DDT-supporter Thomas H. Jukes was to be muzzled by attacking his credibility.
    [21st Century, Spring 1992]


    Some facts about DDT you may have chosen to ignore:

    "DDT is the cheapest and most effective way to control malaria," said Roger Bate, co-director of Africa Fighting Malaria, a nonprofit organization based in South Africa.

    When South Africa stopped using DDT, malaria rates increased about 1,000 percent, Mr. Bate said. When DDT spraying resumed in 2000, the rate fell 80 percent in 18 months. And continues falling. Details are online at www.fightingmalaria.org.

    DDT now only is produced by the Chinese and Indian governments.

    Chemical companies like the DDT ban so they can sell their products, according to Paul Driessen, senior policy adviser for the Congress of Racial Equality, author of "Eco-Imperialism: Green Power. Black Death" and a former tree hugger.


    So, to sum it up. Millions upon Million have probably died from malaria since the banning of DDT. No scienctific evidence can support the wild claims made 30 years ago.

    I agree we need to watch the amounts of any chemical.

    But that original post by Rush is nothing more that Junk Science at it's best.
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    MaximiIian's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kscott
    I prefer human life to the enviroment, BUT with no enviroment how are humans supposed to live?
    Ah, there's, like, a billion planets out there. We just need to think of a way to make an effective FTL drive....that's the hard part...

  9. #9

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    But that original post by Rush is nothing more that Junk Science at it's best.
    Damn and here I thought your post backed up everything it said. Or are you yanking my chain?
    I have nothing against the womens movement. Especially when Im walking behind it.


  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rush Limbaugh
    Damn and here I thought your post backed up everything it said. Or are you yanking my chain?
    Miswording. I mean the claims that DDT is the end of the world is Junk Science. (or more specifically the false claims that it's the end of the world has cost millions upon millions of lives to malaria)

    Forums.....useless on translating annotation.
    Faithfully under the patronage of the fallen yet rather amiable Octavian.

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    I remember going to the stock car races with my family, as a child. One of the big events of the evening was the DDT fogger, which ran behind to grandstands about an hour before competition began. All of kids would go down and run in and out of the fog. It was great fun.

    Now, if I die of cancer at the age of 72, someone is going to say, "It was DDT." However, cancer runs in my family, so my chances of dying by it are pretty high (much rather die in combat).

    Untold millions of people, all over the world, were saved by the use of DDT. It has been PROVEN that DDT did not kill bird species. Another untold millions of people could be saved by its use, today.

    However, all of these people have to be sacrificed upon the altar of environmentalist orthodoxy.

    God, I detest the Greens ...

  12. #12

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    And while we are researching that drive? Just trust in dumb luck that somehow we figure out a way to escape before everything collapses
    Just like us sooner or later the earth will be destroyed and just like us theres not a damn thing anyone can do about it. Better start looking for an escape now.
    I have nothing against the womens movement. Especially when Im walking behind it.


  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hapsburg
    Ah, there's, like, a billion planets out there. We just need to think of a way to make an effective FTL drive....that's the hard part...
    And while we are researching that drive? Just trust in dumb luck that somehow we figure out a way to escape before everything collapses...


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    It's a miracle!

    I am (somewhat) on Rush's side.
    Yes, I support the use of DDT to prevent malaria.
    But it should ONLY be used indoors because:
    1) Using it in outdoors and in large quanities wil make the mosquitos immune, as they are in many parts of the world (not in Uganda yet)
    2) Uganda has the most beautiful wildlife on the planet, the "Pearl of Africa" must be protected. There is also great potential in tourism if they protect their wildlife.
    3) There are already cheaper and better alternatives for outdoor use.

    But America choose to ban DDT in their own country, and this is their right.
    And you can't expect a country to FINANCE the use of a chemicals they banned on their own soil.

    Maybe they should just give the Ugandan government the money and say "I DON'T expect you to use this money to buy DDT *wink**wink*".



  15. #15

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    Hmmm, from the article it would seem that improper use of the chemical caused problems. Was it a single spray that repelled populations for a year? It would seem that with such a large contintent, spraying single villages every six months wouldn't cause many problems for people or the populations of animals thoughout . Cancer is bad for them, but if you're life expectancy is forty already, cancer is the last of your worries right? Of course it would cause harm (everything causes harm) but would small amounts of DDT endanger an entire ecosystem when large amounts decades to endanger an ecosystem. It would seem that CONTROL and MODERATION is the wisest course of action, lest someone post an article of their own saying that even a molecule of DDT would kill a man.....
    Given any number of random, even contradictory metaphysical postulates, a justification, however absurd, can be logically developed.

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    By upsetting the ecosystem, we have no idea of the problems ahead. Usually we can cope with the changes but the cost to indiginous wildlife is often horrendous.

    IF DDT has a proven effect on birds and other insects - it cannot continue. In the end we'll just end up with a sterile world. Humans, being the top of the food chain will probably store the poison and the result... disaster. I'm reminded of the stupid decision taken in China to kill the sparrows. The result was an explosion of bugs which caused famine.

    New techniques are being developed to deal with malaria. I think they need developing (for example using pheremones to disrupt the life cycle).

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    The old claims on specific are unlikely to be true, in a general sense. In a few cases they may be right. But overall chemicals cause problems so (to quote, as imitation is said to be the sincerest form of flattery):
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Alameda
    I agree we need to watch the amounts of any chemical.

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    You are pretty sure. That is the problem, nobody can be absolutely sure. Some weird scientist might get inspiration tomorrow which would make interstellar or interplanetary travel piece of cake or it might take 100 000 years. If world had kept factories polluting as badly as they did at the beginning of industrialisation we would already have killed our planet. Human ability to destroy nature is impressive.

    Easter islands is a good example. It didn't take them too long to destroy nature of their island to point where their whole culture collapsed. Unless pollution caused by increasing population and toxins released to nature are kept in tight check we are not going to have time to both come up with way to escape and means to do it.


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    The major problem with relying on petrochemicals is not so much the danger of the "end product", but the wastes involved in the manuafacturing process. With no way to safely dispose of this waste in the long term, we will eventually drown in our own garbage.

    The plan for dealing with nuclear waste is particularly rediculous.

  20. #20
    Tom Paine's Avatar Mr Common Sense
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    Which is why I don't like the idea of corporations developing drugs, it all ends up as cost analysis...

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