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  1. #1

    Default Hellenistic Spartan Armies

    Hi,

    Bit late getting on board with RSII, took me a while to get it to work and then I've been busy since but I just started a campaign as Sparta a few days ago.

    It was a tough start with not much cash and only one city but after a couple of defeats I've taken all of mainland Greece as well as Crete.

    My question is this, now that I have some money in the treasury to build better units, what would a typical Spartan army of the Hellenistic period have been composed of historically?

    Are the hoplite units included just for fun? Would they actually have fought at this later date or would have it been purely a pike army? Also if it was modeled on the Macedonian army which Spartan unit is closed to the Hypaspists?

    Basically I want to know how a typical Spartan army of this period would have lined up.

  2. #2
    Brusilov's Avatar Local Moderator
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    Default Re: Hellenistic Spartan Armies

    I think you will find that there was no real typical Spartan army in this period. Basically Sparta was a spent force at this time and a pale relfection on what it had been in the past.

    I would think that a typical Spartan army looks much like any other hellenic faction of the period - phalanx units with some hoplites along with some missile units and cavalry.

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  3. #3
    Spartan198's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Hellenistic Spartan Armies

    Quote Originally Posted by Gylippus View Post
    Also if it was modeled on the Macedonian army which Spartan unit is closed to the Hypaspists?
    Sparta doesn't have any Hypaspists (which are more or less just hoplites who don't fight in a hoplitic phalanx) or Hypastpist-derived units, but Spartan Marines, Thureophoroi, Thorakitai, and the myriad of hoplites they have all serve the purpose.

    Basically I want to know how a typical Spartan army of this period would have lined up.
    I don't know about historically, but here's the composition I use.

    1x general (also serves to guard the right flank because, I mean come on, where else would a Spartan general be?)
    9x Spartan or Periokoi phalangites (or you can mix if you want; I myself have separate "Spartan" and "Periokoi" armies)
    2x Spartan Marines, Metiokoi, or Thorakitai (one to guard the left flank, one as a reserve)
    2x Light Hippeis
    4x Hippeis Xenophontos (I rely heavily on cavalry, so I bring a lot)
    4x Spartan Archers

  4. #4

    Default Re: Hellenistic Spartan Armies

    I'm in the process of designing my Spartan army.

    total of 5 stacks (temporary until Greece is held down)

    Light composition

    Mainly light units missile cavalry, no phalanx, no heavy units all light for swift movement on battle field flanking force for any armies supporting a much larger force i use this army purely for harassing and more or less removing any units going in support of a much larger army and proving quite effective.

    Medium composition

    phalanx's no elite units cavalry in support and archers supportive role for the heavy composition.

    Heavy composition


    Elite infantry pushing/brunt attack force into regions

    Island Hopping composition

    Marines, heavy spear militia archers few cavalry using to slowly sweep across the islands south of Greece and east.

    Last stand defence composition


    Elite units barely any cavalry archers heavy militia. using to defend home region

    Im still working out which units to use where but once i got solid army base of units i will upload all the compositions if anyone wants to try this out.

  5. #5
    kommandant's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: Hellenistic Spartan Armies

    Quote Originally Posted by Spartan198 View Post
    Sparta doesn't have any Hypaspists (which are more or less just hoplites who don't fight in a hoplitic phalanx) or Hypastpist-derived units, but Spartan Marines, Thureophoroi, Thorakitai, and the myriad of hoplites they have all serve the purpose.


    I don't know about historically, but here's the composition I use.

    1x general (also serves to guard the right flank because, I mean come on, where else would a Spartan general be?)
    9x Spartan or Periokoi phalangites (or you can mix if you want; I myself have separate "Spartan" and "Periokoi" armies)
    2x Spartan Marines, Metiokoi, or Thorakitai (one to guard the left flank, one as a reserve)
    2x Light Hippeis
    4x Hippeis Xenophontos (I rely heavily on cavalry, so I bring a lot)
    4x Spartan Archers
    how much land do you have because the Spartan or Periokoi phalangites are so expensive
    or do you just have like two armies?

    and im with you with the cavalry, i'm using the same amount 4 heavy and 2 tarantines(spelling???) to
    use as mobile slingers until the slingers can move into place

    edit: forgot to add my version of the Spartan army

    1x general (at the center of the army to boost any unit falling back)
    1x Spartan Phalagnites (right flank of the main battle line)
    1x Periokoi phalangites(to the left of their Spartan counterparts)
    2x Greek Slingers(or Rhodian)(safely behind my cavalry on the flanks, i move them as needed once the battle starts)
    2x Light Tarantine(again spelling)(one at each flank)
    4x Hippeis Xenophontos(two at each flank)
    2x Spartan Archers(only use them to harass the enemies advancement)
    6x Levy Pikemen(or Metiokoi hoplites when pikemen not available)
    1x Spartan Promochoi(guarding the right flank of the main battle line and when the time comes they are my shock troops)
    Last edited by kommandant; October 07, 2010 at 08:17 AM.

  6. #6
    Spartan198's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Hellenistic Spartan Armies

    Quote Originally Posted by kommandant View Post
    how much land do you have because the Spartan or Periokoi phalangites are so expensive
    or do you just have like two armies?
    Well, at first just one or two armies, yeah. But once I begin to expand into areas like Illyria and Propontis, I start making more due to more fronts opening up.

    Sometimes I might cheat... just a little... and give myself some free money... 5,000 dinari or so every now and then... if I need a bit of a boost. Only on repeat campaigns, though.

    and im with you with the cavalry, i'm using the same amount 4 heavy and 2 tarantines(spelling???) to
    use as mobile slingers until the slingers can move into place
    I learned "hammer and anvil" a long time ago from years of playing both vanilla and mods. I don't use slingers very often myself (mainly only Rhodians as part of the garrison in Rhodes). No room for them in my armies. I prefer archers over slingers.

  7. #7
    kommandant's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: Hellenistic Spartan Armies

    Quote Originally Posted by Spartan198 View Post
    I learned "hammer and anvil" a long time ago from years of playing both vanilla and mods. I don't use slingers very often myself (mainly only Rhodians as part of the garrison in Rhodes). No room for them in my armies. I prefer archers over slingers.

    i personally use the tactics Hannibal used at Cannae, pin them down and give ground(mainly because the levy
    pikemen will get pushed back, same with Metiokoi hoplite) while i get my cavalry and slingers to the rear
    of the enemy, but sometimes this doesn't work out as planned and i have to make due with what i can

    also i used to never use slingers until this campaign, now my archers are just harassers since atleast
    for now the archers available to me don't do that much damage when compared to the slingers especially
    to the rear of the formation

  8. #8
    Brusilov's Avatar Local Moderator
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    Default Re: Hellenistic Spartan Armies

    I think like most things there are armies that you use at the start of the game (cobbled together from what is available at the start) and then later on in the game as your Empire grows and you upgrade your barracks...

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    Default Re: Hellenistic Spartan Armies

    Any spartans here got to Roman holdings? If you have, how are you dealing with the unbreakable and unkillable triarii and polybians?


  10. #10
    Spartan198's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Hellenistic Spartan Armies

    Quote Originally Posted by kommandant View Post
    i personally use the tactics Hannibal used at Cannae, pin them down and give ground(mainly because the levy
    pikemen will get pushed back, same with Metiokoi hoplite)
    My pikes, spears, and swords don't know how to give ground. And if they ever learn, I threaten to tell their wives, who can do a lot worse than I ever could.

    Quote Originally Posted by GreatOne View Post
    Any spartans here got to Roman holdings? If you have, how are you dealing with the unbreakable and unkillable triarii and polybians?
    Don't know, I prefer killing the oh-so-mighty Marian legions.

  11. #11
    Brusilov's Avatar Local Moderator
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    Default Re: Hellenistic Spartan Armies

    They are not unbreakable (unless you are playing on VH battle difficulty) and certainly killable. I've taken Rome out with Carthage and the Cimbrii in RSII.

    Using 'hammer and anvil' tactics will still work againat Rome. Just pin the main line and tire out their units. Use your cavalry to remove the Roman cavalry from the field and then when your units are rested use them to attack the Romans in the flank or rear.

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    Default Re: Hellenistic Spartan Armies

    Quote Originally Posted by Brusilov View Post
    They are not unbreakable (unless you are playing on VH battle difficulty) and certainly killable. I've taken Rome out with Carthage and the Cimbrii in RSII.

    Using 'hammer and anvil' tactics will still work againat Rome. Just pin the main line and tire out their units. Use your cavalry to remove the Roman cavalry from the field and then when your units are rested use them to attack the Romans in the flank or rear.

    I've been using that tactic against them, and its working, it just isn't as good as, for example against Pergamon armies I've recently faced or even Ptolemaic elite phalanxes and Basilikoi Peltastai or Basilikon Agema, I don't even want to talk about Barbarian armies . The thing is with Romans that they usually leave some 4 units of triarii to harry my flanking cavalry, or simply block access to the engaged first line.

    And when I do charge in their rear, it usually takes for me to bring them to some 80 men for them to break under hard pressure, or a chain rout of supporting Mercenary Infantry.Also they use VERY long lines, so they usually outflank my lines, unless I stretch it to be very thin, in which case I run the risk of them breaking through.

    Now, don't get me wrong, I LOVE RS2, and Rome is ancient history , it's just that, it's been difficult fighting them, and I wondered how everyone else's expirience was with them.


  13. #13

    Default Re: Hellenistic Spartan Armies

    As far as I know historically most Hellenic armies of the period had up to or over half of all the Infantry made up of the phalanx such as the Macedonian Army at the battle of Pydna

    so in my Hellenic campaigns depending on how many cavalry the army has i always have 6-9 units of phlangites


    My Basic Spartan Army
    1x General Center Just behind main Battle Line
    2x Heavy Spartan Phlangites Holding the center
    4x Periokoi Phlangites the flanks of my heavy phlangites
    2x Spartan archers spread out behind general
    1x City Hoplite (Spartans/Athenian/Cretan etc) i use a lot of mercenary troops so i find it easier to keep track of which army has what objective stationed on the left flank just behind main battle line
    1x Eplikotai City Hoplite (Promachi/Eplikotai Athenian/Epilikotai Cretan etc) same as above but on the right flank
    2x Throkatai main battle line both flanks
    1x Skitarii on the right flank behind main battle line
    1x Spartan marine on the left flank behind main battle line
    2x Tarantine Cav left flank
    2x light hippeis right flank
    1x xenophontos hippeis center behind archers easier choose which flank their needed on
    YATS Renius Domitius Orso Plebian 38


  14. #14

    Default Re: Hellenistic Spartan Armies

    Quote Originally Posted by Gylippus View Post
    Hi,

    Bit late getting on board with RSII, took me a while to get it to work and then I've been busy since but I just started a campaign as Sparta a few days ago.

    It was a tough start with not much cash and only one city but after a couple of defeats I've taken all of mainland Greece as well as Crete.

    My question is this, now that I have some money in the treasury to build better units, what would a typical Spartan army of the Hellenistic period have been composed of historically?

    Are the hoplite units included just for fun? Would they actually have fought at this later date or would have it been purely a pike army? Also if it was modeled on the Macedonian army which Spartan unit is closed to the Hypaspists?

    Basically I want to know how a typical Spartan army of this period would have lined up.
    The closest we can come to the Spartan army. This is one of their last major battles.
    Scan the net, on the history of Sparta. And keep an eye on the date 222 B.C.E.
    Sparta was forced into leagues with the Greek states., or they would be overcome. They had a mix of units from the slinger, archers, and phalanx units, which were the common for the Greek armies.
    And few hoplites.

    RS2 helps Sparta with a, " what if " factor.
    At this time i cant post the history on it,i will later.
    But you can see our thread on the Spartan faction, and why we choose these units.


    See below history of Sparta last days of power.

    In 222 BC, at Sellacia, between Sparta and Tegea, a battle took place. The Spartan army was numbering 10,000 and that of Antigonos and his allies 30,000. At this long and horrid battle, Spartans fought bravely. The whole Spartan army fell, except 200 men. King Kleomenes fled to Egypt.
    The following years, a series of revolts started at Sparta, king's ephors were killed or exiled.
    In 206 BC, the tyrant Nabis, a descendant of Demaratos, who had fled in Persia in 490 BC, took the throne. An able but ruthless man, he confiscated the properties of the wealthy and gave them to the poor. By setting free slaves, he managed to acquire an army of 10,000 men and he also extended his social reforms to Argos. It was Nabis who foreseeing the incoming dangers fortified Sparta for the first time in her history.
    When the Roman commander Flamininus invaded Laconia and laid siege to Sparta, after a few days of fighting a non honorable truce was accepted by Sparta, in which was losing all the Perioikic cities on the coasts and her fleet.
    Later with the pretence of helping Sparta, the Aitolians sent a thousand soldiers to kill Nabis and secure Sparta. They managed to kill him but they all were massacred from the Spartans. After Nabis assassination, Sparta was forced by Philopoemen to become a member of the Achaean league. Her walls were razed and the laws of Lykurgos repealed.

    RS2 used the fact that Sparta had to join the leage. That is when we used the; "what if " factor.

    The Battle of Sellasia was a war that took place in 222 BC between the armies of Antigonus III Doson, King of Macedonia and Cleomenes III, King of Sparta, the Spartan Forces were massacred and Cleomenes fled to Egypt.


    Arrived at capacity in 235 BC after the death of Leonidas II, son of King Cleomenes III undertook an ambitious political restoration of Sparta's power by returning to a legendary political tradition of Lycurgus.


    King of Macedonia, Antigonus Doson responded and regained the influence lost from the Peloponnese since almost two decades. In 224 with the Achaeans, Boeotians, Thessalians and the Acarnanians, an alliance. Antigonus drove out the Spartans from Argos and took Orchomenos and Mantineia. In 223, Cleomenes attacked and invaded Megalopolis, thus returning to military practices which had disappeared from Greece since the beginning of the 3rd century BC.


    In 222 BC, Ptolemy ceased financial support from Cleomenes.



    Forces in presence

    Cleomenes had 30,000 infantrymen composing of hoplites, perioikoi and about 650 cavalries. The Spartan phalanx, under the command of Cleomenes was arranged on a hill named Olympus near Sellasia and were supported by a body of light infantry mercenaries. The allied troops of Sparta and the perioikoi phalanx were occupied by the commander Eucleidas on the other hill, Evas at the left wing. The centre were made up of Spartan cavalries, supported by other light infantrymen.





    Ancient sources

    • <LI style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0cm; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.7cm; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0.7cm">Polybius Histories, ii. 65-70



    • <LI style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0cm; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.7cm; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0.7cm">Plutarch Life of Cleomenes ', 27-28
    • Pausanias Description of Greece, ii. 9. § 2, 10. § 7, iv. 29. § 9, vii. 7. § 4, viii. 49. § 5.
    http://www.mlahanas.de/Greeks/Histor...s/Battles.html

    Site on Wars in greece.
    Sellacia
    The Battle.

    The sack of Megalopolis came as a big shock for the Achaean League. Cleomenes followed this success up by raiding the territory of Argos, as he knew Antigonus could not resist him due to a lack of men. Cleomenes had also hoped that a raid on Argive territory would make the Argives loss faith in Antigonus because of his failure to protect their land.[19] Walbank describes this raid as being 'an impressive demonstration, but it had no effect other than to make it even more clear that Cleomenes had to be defeated in a pitched battle.[20]
    Cleomenes had taken up a strong position, placing his army across a road that followed a river running between two hills, Olympus and Eva. His army of 20,000 infantrymen was composed of Spartan hoplites, possibly Spartan pikemen (according to Plutarch, Cleomenes had armed 2.000 Lacedaemonians in the Macedonian way), perioeci, mercenaries and about 650 cavalry. The Spartan phalanx, under the personal command of Cleomenes, made up the right wing of the battle line and was positioned on the hilltop of Olympus near Sellasia. This force was supported by a body of light infantry mercenaries. The allied troops as well as the perioeci phalanx were led by Cleomenes' brother, Eucleidas. These forces made up the left wing of Cleomenes' battle line and were positioned on Evas. The center occupied the valley and road and was made up of Spartan cavalry, supported by mercenaries. Cleomenes probably hoped that the higher tactical position his army enjoyed would compensate for his numerical inferiority. To be sure, he ordered a ditch dug and a palisade raised all along the front line.
    Antigonus, for his part, arrived on the scene with a superior force of around 30,000 men, including the allied forces of the Achaean League. For the first time since the beginning of the 3rd century BC, the Macedonians arrayed against the Spartans a true national army and not one composed of mercenaries. Antigonous alone had with him 10,000 pikemen, 3.000 peltasts and 300 horse from Macedonia as well as 1.000 Agrianes, 1.600 Illyrian, 1.000 Galatians and 3.000 unidentified mercenary foot and 300 horse. The allies provided him with further important contingents, the Achaeans with 3.000 foot and 300 horse, the Boeotians with 2.000 foot and 200 horse, the Acarnanians with 1.000 foot and 50 horse, the Epirotes with 1.000 foot and 50 horse.
    Antigonus placed his phalanxes facing the Lacedaemonian infantry which was arrayed at the top of the two hills, with the order to advance and take the heights. His cavalry of Macedonians, Achaeans (led by Philopemene), Boeotians and mercenaries under the command of Alexander, were arrayed in front of the enemy horse in the center. The Macedonian right wing on Eva hill adbanced against the Lacedaemonians but was attacked from the rear by enemy light infantry that was initially arrayed with the cavalry. Assaulted both from the rear and the front, Antigonus' phalanx was hard pressed until Philopemen, disregarding his orders charged with his men and relieved the phalanx forcing the enemy light troops to retreat, thus ensuring victory for the Macedonians. After the battle, Antigonus praised young Philopemene's initiative. According to Plutarch, out of 6.000 Spartans, only 2 survived, the others preferring honorable death to disgrace. Cleomenes fled to Alexandria where he stayed until his death.

    Once again your the general of the Spartan army.
    Use your skills, or advice from others to build your line.
    But most of all , have fun!
    Last edited by swhunter; October 07, 2010 at 08:34 PM.

    Roma Surrectum Greek/Spartan Researcher/Tester.

  15. #15
    kommandant's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: Hellenistic Spartan Armies

    Quote Originally Posted by swhunter View Post
    The closest we can come to the Spartan army. Is the one in their last major battle.
    Scan the net, on the history of Sparta. And keep an eye on the date 222 B.C.E.
    Sparta was forced into leagues with the Greek states., or they would be overcome. They had a mix of units from the slinger, archers, and phalanx units, which were the common for the Greek armies.
    And few hoplites.

    RS2 helps Sparta with a what if factor.
    At this time i cant post the history on it,i will later.
    But you can see our thread on the Spartan faction, and why we choose these units.


    See below history of Sparta last days of power.

    In 222 BC, at Sellacia, between Sparta and Tegea, a battle took place. The Spartan army was numbering 10,000 and that of Antigonos and his allies 30,000. At this long and horrid battle, Spartans fought bravely. The whole Spartan army fell, except 200 men. King Kleomenes fled to Egypt.
    The following years, a series of revolts started at Sparta, king's ephors were killed or exiled.
    In 206 BC, the tyrant Nabis, a descendant of Demaratos, who had fled in Persia in 490 BC, took the throne. An able but ruthless man, he confiscated the properties of the wealthy and gave them to the poor. By setting free slaves, he managed to acquire an army of 10,000 men and he also extended his social reforms to Argos. It was Nabis who foreseeing the incoming dangers fortified Sparta for the first time in her history.
    When the Roman commander Flamininus invaded Laconia and laid siege to Sparta, after a few days of fighting a non honorable truce was accepted by Sparta, in which was losing all the Perioikic cities on the coasts and her fleet.
    Later with the pretence of helping Sparta, the Aitolians sent a thousand soldiers to kill Nabis and secure Sparta. They managed to kill him but they all were massacred from the Spartans. After Nabis assassination, Sparta was forced by Philopoemen to become a member of the Achaean league. Her walls were razed and the laws of Lykurgos repealed.

    RS2 used the fact that Sparta had to join the leage. That is when we used the; "what if " factor.

    The Battle of Sellasia was a war that took place in 222 BC between the armies of Antigonus III Doson, King of Macedonia and Cleomenes III, King of Sparta, the Spartan Forces were massacred and Cleomenes fled to Egypt.


    Arrived at capacity in 235 BC after the death of Leonidas II, son of King Cleomenes III undertook an ambitious political restoration of Sparta's power by returning to a legendary political tradition of Lycurgus.


    King of Macedonia, Antigonus Doson responded and regained the influence lost from the Peloponnese since almost two decades. In 224 with the Achaeans, Boeotians, Thessalians and the Acarnanians, an alliance. Antigonus drove out the Spartans from Argos and took Orchomenos and Mantineia. In 223, Cleomenes attacked and invaded Megalopolis, thus returning to military practices which had disappeared from Greece since the beginning of the 3rd century BC.


    In 222 BC, Ptolemy ceased financial support from Cleomenes.



    Forces in presence

    Cleomenes had 30,000 infantrymen composing of hoplites, perioikoi and about 650 cavalries. The Spartan phalanx, under the command of Cleomenes was arranged on a hill named Olympus near Sellasia and were supported by a body of light infantry mercenaries. The allied troops of Sparta and the perioikoi phalanx were occupied by the commander Eucleidas on the other hill, Evas at the left wing. The centre were made up of Spartan cavalries, supported by other light infantrymen.





    Ancient sources

    • <LI style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0cm; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.7cm; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0.7cm">Polybius Histories, ii. 65-70



    • <LI style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0cm; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.7cm; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0.7cm">Plutarch Life of Cleomenes ', 27-28
    • Pausanias Description of Greece, ii. 9. § 2, 10. § 7, iv. 29. § 9, vii. 7. § 4, viii. 49. § 5.

    http://www.mlahanas.de/Greeks/Histor...s/Battles.html

    Site on Wars in greece.
    Sellacia
    The Battle.

    The sack of Megalopolis came as a big shock for the Achaean League. Cleomenes followed this success up by raiding the territory of Argos, as he knew Antigonus could not resist him due to a lack of men. Cleomenes had also hoped that a raid on Argive territory would make the Argives loss faith in Antigonus because of his failure to protect their land.[19] Walbank describes this raid as being 'an impressive demonstration, but it had no effect other than to make it even more clear that Cleomenes had to be defeated in a pitched battle.[20]
    Cleomenes had taken up a strong position, placing his army across a road that followed a river running between two hills, Olympus and Eva. His army of 20,000 infantrymen was composed of Spartan hoplites, possibly Spartan pikemen (according to Plutarch, Cleomenes had armed 2.000 Lacedaemonians in the Macedonian way), perioeci, mercenaries and about 650 cavalry. The Spartan phalanx, under the personal command of Cleomenes, made up the right wing of the battle line and was positioned on the hilltop of Olympus near Sellasia. This force was supported by a body of light infantry mercenaries. The allied troops as well as the perioeci phalanx were led by Cleomenes' brother, Eucleidas. These forces made up the left wing of Cleomenes' battle line and were positioned on Evas. The center occupied the valley and road and was made up of Spartan cavalry, supported by mercenaries. Cleomenes probably hoped that the higher tactical position his army enjoyed would compensate for his numerical inferiority. To be sure, he ordered a ditch dug and a palisade raised all along the front line.
    Antigonus, for his part, arrived on the scene with a superior force of around 30,000 men, including the allied forces of the Achaean League. For the first time since the beginning of the 3rd century BC, the Macedonians arrayed against the Spartans a true national army and not one composed of mercenaries. Antigonous alone had with him 10,000 pikemen, 3.000 peltasts and 300 horse from Macedonia as well as 1.000 Agrianes, 1.600 Illyrian, 1.000 Galatians and 3.000 unidentified mercenary foot and 300 horse. The allies provided him with further important contingents, the Achaeans with 3.000 foot and 300 horse, the Boeotians with 2.000 foot and 200 horse, the Acarnanians with 1.000 foot and 50 horse, the Epirotes with 1.000 foot and 50 horse.
    Antigonus placed his phalanxes facing the Lacedaemonian infantry which was arrayed at the top of the two hills, with the order to advance and take the heights. His cavalry of Macedonians, Achaeans (led by Philopemene), Boeotians and mercenaries under the command of Alexander, were arrayed in front of the enemy horse in the center. The Macedonian right wing on Eva hill adbanced against the Lacedaemonians but was attacked from the rear by enemy light infantry that was initially arrayed with the cavalry. Assaulted both from the rear and the front, Antigonus' phalanx was hard pressed until Philopemen, disregarding his orders charged with his men and relieved the phalanx forcing the enemy light troops to retreat, thus ensuring victory for the Macedonians. After the battle, Antigonus praised young Philopemene's initiative. According to Plutarch, out of 6.000 Spartans, only 2 survived, the others preferring honorable death to disgrace. Cleomenes fled to Alexandria where he stayed until his death.

    Once again your the general of the Spartan army.
    Use your skills, or advice from others to build your line.
    But most of all , have fun!
    i really enjoyed reading this post, no matter how many times i read about Spartan history i never
    get tired of it, plus rep

  16. #16

    Default Re: Hellenistic Spartan Armies

    What would be a good army to defeat the Greeks with, I'm using tons of marines 2x archers and like3x calvary and I'm being crushed as they are doing a mass invasion.

  17. #17
    kommandant's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: Hellenistic Spartan Armies

    Quote Originally Posted by chris150150 View Post
    What would be a good army to defeat the Greeks with, I'm using tons of marines 2x archers and like3x calvary and I'm being crushed as they are doing a mass invasion.
    the marines are good but not to be used as your main fighting force, plus they are expensive

    what i would use is the Metiokoi hoplites and if you can afford it use the Spartan hoplites

    the Spartan Hoplites will decimate the Greeks, also make use of the heavy cavalry that they
    have if you have the third barracks(i think) they have been helpful in my wins against the Greeks
    and the Macedonians

  18. #18
    Striker's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Re: Hellenistic Spartan Armies

    Quote Originally Posted by chris150150 View Post
    What would be a good army to defeat the Greeks with, I'm using tons of marines 2x archers and like3x calvary and I'm being crushed as they are doing a mass invasion.


    As the previous post said, don't use marines as a main force, use Spartan Hoplites or Metiokoi (sp?) to make your battle line and use the marines as backup and to prevent INFANTRY flanking forces, heavy cavalry to take theirs and flank them, don't remember if you can recruit them from sparta but if you can use those Rhodian Slingers, pin the enemy down them use those to fire from behind

    My spartan army composition:

    1x General
    6x Spartan Hoplites
    4-2x Marines
    1x Archer
    2x Slingers or peltasts (preferably slingers)
    6x Cavalry (preferably Heavy)

    If you're going to make it similar, when you use 4 marines just make the rest exactly like I said, if you're going to use 2, use 8 Spartan Hoplites.
    Tactics? Hammer and Anvil, the one I said above with slingers.
    Also against any infantry EXCEPT the ones who can form PHALANX i make my left flank more thin, 3 ranks deep, and my right flank 5 ranks deep, I let them push my left flank while my right encircles then, more or less Hannibal's tactic on Cannae.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Hellenistic Spartan Armies

    Quote Originally Posted by Striker View Post
    As the previous post said, don't use marines as a main force, use Spartan Hoplites or Metiokoi (sp?) to make your battle line and use the marines as backup and to prevent INFANTRY flanking forces, heavy cavalry to take theirs and flank them, don't remember if you can recruit them from sparta but if you can use those Rhodian Slingers, pin the enemy down them use those to fire from behind

    My spartan army composition:

    1x General
    6x Spartan Hoplites
    4-2x Marines
    1x Archer
    2x Slingers or peltasts (preferably slingers)
    6x Cavalry (preferably Heavy)

    If you're going to make it similar, when you use 4 marines just make the rest exactly like I said, if you're going to use 2, use 8 Spartan Hoplites.
    Tactics? Hammer and Anvil, the one I said above with slingers.
    Also against any infantry EXCEPT the ones who can form PHALANX i make my left flank more thin, 3 ranks deep, and my right flank 5 ranks deep, I let them push my left flank while my right encircles then, more or less Hannibal's tactic on Cannae.
    Ty, I realizied that I had a boat filled with an army of
    3x General
    8x marines
    2x slingers
    4x light calvary

    I'm going to bring them to Crete since I lost my hold of Sparta and start building boats and blockading all the Greek ports, while making 2-3 stacks of the army you guys suggested. I'll strike sparta then the town near Zues's statue, and then move to the cornith land strip and either camp there or take other cities.

  20. #20
    Striker's Avatar Semisalis
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    Icon12 Re: Hellenistic Spartan Armies

    Quote Originally Posted by chris150150 View Post
    Ty, I realizied that I had a boat filled with an army of
    3x General
    8x marines
    2x slingers
    4x light calvary

    I'm going to bring them to Crete since I lost my hold of Sparta and start building boats and blockading all the Greek ports, while making 2-3 stacks of the army you guys suggested. I'll strike sparta then the town near Zues's statue, and then move to the cornith land strip and either camp there or take other cities.
    Be very careful with this army, especially the cavalry, the marines are not meant for a battle line but can hold their own for a while, but light cavalry is meant for skirmishing, and that is not as much of a help then heavy cavalry.

    About blockading their ports, I don't think it will help that much, as most of the income is made of taxes.
    Try to ally with Macedon and make them join the war with the greeks, it might relieve the pressure

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