SS6.3 - Castles - Happy Population?

[Syric]

I understand life in a castle wasn't the most favored perhaps, but what does a King have to do to keep his castle population happy and growing across the lands?! I've built them everything ....schools, libraries, farms....and yet it only seems that a large military force/presence rights their disgruntle nature, or a Lord w/ a army 5-10 units strong.

Is this by design?

Furthermore, would it suffice to just place cannon fodder units like levy archers and rabble within the castles to counterbalance the missing military presence the "good" people of a castle seem to desire?

[TheBard]

I understand life in a castle wasn't the most favored perhaps, but what does a King have to do to keep his castle population happy and growing across the lands?! I've built them everything ....schools, libraries, farms....and yet it only seems that a large military force/presence rights their disgruntle nature, or a Lord w/ a army 5-10 units strong.

Is this by design?

Furthermore, would it suffice to just place cannon fodder units like levy archers and rabble within the castles to counterbalance the missing military presence the "good" people of a castle seem to desire?

Are you playing with Longer Assimilation on? If so, it will take longer for...um...castles and cities to assimilate after you capture them.

I've found that sometimes you need to sack newly taken cities/castles in order to keep the populace in line. Otherwise, it could be a problem with distance from the capital, corruption, squalor, high taxes (though not in a castle), etc. Consider moving your capital if that is the issue. For example, if you are France and capture Jerusalem, you'll have a very hard time keeping Jerusalem happy. Religious unrest (you are Christian, the people are Muslim or Orthodox), and constant battles (even against rebels) all can add to unrest as well.

[Syric]

Playing the Scottish faction. I've noticed that too ....sacking the castle/city and slaughtering a portion of their population seems to make them understand who their new master is, but it's such a waste of life - not to mention so un-chivalrous (never-mind I hire assassins .

I do keep religion as a point of importance (try to 100% religion in each territory).

Hmm. So, perhaps the only answer is keeping a decent size army in each castle, eh? That seems like wasted expenses, but perhaps that is for a more "realistic" approach.....

and yes, I do have Longer Assimilation on, though in my original post I've noticed this disgruntle population thing in castles for quite some time now (8+ turns later)

[Alavaria]

.sacking the castle/city and slaughtering a portion of their population seems to make them understand who their new master is, but it's such a waste of life - not to mention so un-chivalrous

Well, it is un-chivalrous, but at least it isn't dreadful, if you know what I mean ^___^ It seems to help a lot more than just by reducing the population by 25% though ... a very good option.

I do keep religion as a point of importance (try to 100% religion in each territory).

Heh. I would like to. 70% is like the maximum in my border provinces, even if they've been held for a while. I think all of Europe is using my Pagan lands to up the piety of their priests. Sadly for them, not only are my priests in large packs, but their (captured) Theologians' Guilds are quite powerful conversion factors in my favor as well.

Hmm. So, perhaps the only answer is keeping a decent size army in each castle, eh? That seems like wasted expenses, but perhaps that is for a more "realistic" approach.....

Yeah. Um, (on huge) Levy archers and 60/turn/unit, at 120 men a unit that's 0.5 florins/turn/soldier. Peasants are even cheaper at 85/turn/unit, and at 200 men a unit it's even less. These cheap men are fully effective as garrisons, from what I've seen, anyway. And I usually carry tons around, as Levy Archers are cheap and provide a nice "bulk" and counter for horse archers (ie: shoot one another, I don't care if you die as long as they die)

I tend to prefer the levy archers, though. The free upkeep slots are usually filled with Baltics or Noble Sons cavalry (yay feudal units that I'll never use), and I can always make use of more levy archers ... arrowsss

I like the thought that they keep order by shooting to death anyone who tries to "be violent". Even better if it's an actual riot, since so many civilians die.

[Slyspy]

I've also noticed the high levels of squalor at castles, about which you can do nothing.

[RabidSheepLegion]

I think it all depends on how big the units are, not their grade maybe? Also (correct me if I'm wrong) most you can get from garriosn bonus is 40-60 % happiness.

[Ichon]

Castles unhappy? That is odd... they get a bonus to happiness compared to cities. If you have lords governing each castle they might have +rebel traits. Try moving them out of the castle and seeing what public order does. Otherwise it should be easy to tell why the population is unhappy.

Usually its-

Religion(might be some heresy or another religion)
Distance to Capitol
Squalor(yes in large Castles)
Governor traits/ancillaries or Faction Leader traits...

Cities might have taxes or enemy spies a factor as well.

[Syric]

Most of it seems to be squalor, regardless of a Lord or not (though some lords do help reduce it more then others).

I've built any/all buildings I could within the great castle/fortress/etc. and yet they bicker! So, to reduce squalor I'm simply gonna need more troops within the castle, aye?

(religion and distance to capital are minor, but compounding the issue too, but Squalor is the prevalent catalyst to my happiness/population growth issue in castles)

[Maltacus]

Castles unhappy? That is odd... they get a bonus to happiness compared to cities. If you have lords governing each castle they might have +rebel traits. Try moving them out of the castle and seeing what public order does. Otherwise it should be easy to tell why the population is unhappy.

The problem with castles is that while they do get an order bonus, there are also much less buildings available that increases public order and decreases squalor. Cities may have lower initial order but with the tavern and town hall buildings together with temples and schools etc they quickly surpass any castle. City barracks also have an order bonus that castle counterparts lack.

I have often thought that castle barracks should be given some order bonus as well. The public order that derived from the barracks would have functioned similarly in both fortified and less fortified medieval cities, don't you think?

[Gorrrrrn]

If you check the descr_settlement_Mechanics.xml file
you'll find

<factor name="SOF_SQUALOUR">
<pip_modifier value="0.2"/> ;vanilla
<pip_min value="0"/>
<pip_max value="16"/>
</factor>

you could try adding a line
<castle_modifier value="0.1"/>

or lowering the
<pip_max value="16"/>
to
<pip_max value="12"/>

or whatever values you prefer.

squalor is one of the main restrictions on population growth (and to a lesser degree order)

let us know if that helps!

[For England Men]

ye it seems to happen in all my campaigns as i start getting larger cities and castles the cities are happy with the free garrison and good governor no matter how far out they are but castles start being a bit of a pain even the closer ones are bordering on yellow face public order and the ones far out (gaza for example as england) start to be a real pain like good governor , full garrison and all buildings including st johns major chapter house and it is still yellow face public order.

I do play VH / VH though so dont want it to be easy but agree that the barracks should have similiar public order bonuses to cities version.

[WelshDragon]

The best solution I have found on the Longer Assimiation is to have a high chivalrous general take the city/castle, I usually do not sack/slaughter the population (which usually gives another point to Chivalry), and have some "cheap" troops to garrison, usually 6 units to start and decrease over time, and of course lower taxes in cities to help a bit.

[Syric]

Thank you everyone for the feedback! Good to know I'm not the only one out there! I agree, you'd think within a castle that a barracks would help instill public order. For all the obvious reasons.

If you check the descr_settlement_Mechanics.xml file
you'll find

<factor name="SOF_SQUALOUR">
<pip_modifier value="0.2"/> ;vanilla
<pip_min value="0"/>
<pip_max value="16"/>
</factor>

you could try adding a line
<castle_modifier value="0.1"/>

or lowering the
<pip_max value="16"/>
to
<pip_max value="12"/>

or whatever values you prefer.

squalor is one of the main restrictions on population growth (and to a lesser degree order)

let us know if that helps!

Thanks for this information, but what exactly will these values do? How sensitive are they? I do think, as it stands, the squalor values are a little rough, and might be inclined to mod them if I understood the value a bit better. Thanks for the recommend!

[Gorrrrrn]

Tsarsies has written a guide to the settlement mechanics file:
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=253598

it's one of the most important but least understood files it seems.

[Slyspy]

Simply adding the order bonus to the barracks buildings as per cities would help since otherwise only the chapel line has any impact on order.