The Brilliant Spartan Plan that backfired!!!

[kommandant]

yesterday i started a new Spartan Campaign and i had a simple plan in mind, i was thinking of not
expanding no more than 2 or 3 cities, Argos, Olympia and Sparta itself, but mainly just Sparta and Argos

the other part of the plan was to simply take the Greek Cities of Thebes, Athens, and Corinth and then
allow them to revolt leaving them as free people and thus no one near me to attack me, they would
serve as buffer zones against everyone to the north and north east

the game started, and after several battles against the unified Greeks, Argos is left wide open for
conquest after a long siege the city surrenders without a fight, first part of my strategy is complete

then i turned my attention to the several armies next to Corinth, my two armies confront them and
destroy them in detail (slinger's are beasts) and Corinth is destroyed, its people are massacred and most
of its buildings are razed to the ground, soon after both Athens and Thebes follow in the same manner
as Corinth

A peace is declared between the humiliated Greeks and the Victorious Spartans, after that i allowed the
three destroyed Greek Cities to rebel, and that's when my plan backfired. Corinth was the first to rebel
but instead of it becoming free people or rebels they reverted back to the Greeks which started a war
between me and them again, fearing that this will happen to the other two cities i gave Athens to the
rebel faction which are currently my allies, the city rebelled against them and reverted to the Greeks
aswell, now knowing what will happen to Thebes i instead gave them to Macedon, that was the only
good thing that has happened to me after the initial success that i had against the Greeks.

right now the Macedonians are barely holding on to Thebes and i have lost at least 3 major battles
against the Greeks at Corinth this has turned into a disaster which i hope to get under control soon

the armies that spawned for the Greeks in both Corinth and Athens all have gold chevrons making them
extremely hard to take down, even the Spartan Heavy Phalanx are destroyed when fighting the Greek
Slingers with 3 gold Chevrons in hand to hand combat
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

now that i have said that i have to say that the Greek Slingers are outstanding this is the first campaign
ever that i use them and i have to say they are beasts, they usually have more kills than any other
unit in my army in every battle

[Raiven]

every general have to learn from his mistakes

[The Noble Lord]

every general have to learn from his mistakes

Yep, learn and learn, that's the lesson here .

[Striker]

"No plan survives contact with the enemy"

[Frost, colonel]

When I started my Carthage campaign with Hannibal in Italy I sacked Rome, Capua and Arretium, destroyed every building I could. Then decided it was to early to crush Rome and went to Spain, but the abandoned cities rebelled producing nasty stacks. One of which quickly took ship and landed in Spain to try and lift my siege to Emporian. Sacking Rome was fun, but it came with a price.

[Aristotle's Folly]

yesterday i started a new Spartan Campaign and i had a simple plan in mind, i was thinking of not
expanding no more than 2 or 3 cities, Argos, Olympia and Sparta itself, but mainly just Sparta and Argos

the other part of the plan was to simply take the Greek Cities of Thebes, Athens, and Corinth and then
allow them to revolt leaving them as free people and thus no one near me to attack me, they would
serve as buffer zones against everyone to the north and north east

the game started, and after several battles against the unified Greeks, Argos is left wide open for
conquest after a long siege the city surrenders without a fight, first part of my strategy is complete

then i turned my attention to the several armies next to Corinth, my two armies confront them and
destroy them in detail (slinger's are beasts) and Corinth is destroyed, its people are massacred and most
of its buildings are razed to the ground, soon after both Athens and Thebes follow in the same manner
as Corinth

A peace is declared between the humiliated Greeks and the Victorious Spartans, after that i allowed the
three destroyed Greek Cities to rebel, and that's when my plan backfired. Corinth was the first to rebel
but instead of it becoming free people or rebels they reverted back to the Greeks which started a war
between me and them again, fearing that this will happen to the other two cities i gave Athens to the
rebel faction which are currently my allies, the city rebelled against them and reverted to the Greeks
aswell, now knowing what will happen to Thebes i instead gave them to Macedon, that was the only
good thing that has happened to me after the initial success that i had against the Greeks.

right now the Macedonians are barely holding on to Thebes and i have lost at least 3 major battles
against the Greeks at Corinth this has turned into a disaster which i hope to get under control soon

the armies that spawned for the Greeks in both Corinth and Athens all have gold chevrons making them
extremely hard to take down, even the Spartan Heavy Phalanx are destroyed when fighting the Greek
Slingers with 3 gold Chevrons in hand to hand combat
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

now that i have said that i have to say that the Greek Slingers are outstanding this is the first campaign
ever that i use them and i have to say they are beasts, they usually have more kills than any other
unit in my army in every battle

Interesting post ... I enjoyed it reading it (plus rep for posting it). One thing you might want to try, if your going to take a city and let it go rebel, is to knock down every building you can. Just rip everything down. That might help.

Yes, those Greek slingers are pretty deadly, although the idea of Greek Slingers taking out a Spartan Heavy Phalanx is ... odd. What difficulty setting are you playing on?

~ Dani ~

[kommandant]

Interesting post ... I enjoyed it reading it (plus rep for posting it). One thing you might want to try, if your going to take a city and let it go rebel, is to knock down every building you can. Just rip everything down. That might help.

Yes, those Greek slingers are pretty deadly, although the idea of Greek Slingers taking out a Spartan Heavy Phalanx is ... odd. What difficulty setting are you playing on?

~ Dani ~

I did raze it to the ground, all 3 cities lol hence a lot of slingers with 3 gold chevrons along with a full stack of 3 chevron units

I'm playing on the H/H first time 4 me and I have to say that its so much better than M/M

[Lucius Aemilius Scaurus]

I think all the homeland factions, if taken by a foreign nation, will rebel for their first masters. Same for you. If they take a city of yours and it rebels (highly unpropable with the AI) it will spawn you units and it will rebel in your favour. Well, it was like this in Vanilla anyways, dont know if they changed it. (I remember letting carthage revolt and getting 3-4 gold chevron elephants :d)

[Striker]

I think all the homeland factions, if taken by a foreign nation, will rebel for their first masters. Same for you. If they take a city of yours and it rebels (highly unpropable with the AI) it will spawn you units and it will rebel in your favour. Well, it was like this in Vanilla anyways, dont know if they changed it. (I remember letting carthage revolt and getting 3-4 gold chevron elephants :d)

This. just one thing, it isn't possible to have 4 gold chevron

[swhunter]

When i tested Sparta, Campaign #45.
You must make friends by trade and attack Olympia.
Use your diplomates to trade with. Once you ally with Rome, the Greek wars are over!
Except those Free Greek rebel states.
Since Rome held the power's back then. Mace will not fight you just yet, because they see you as friendly. Build income, better troops, and wait til you have 4 stacks to go to war!
The Greeks will build theirs also, and Mace.
But when once ready, you can start your conquest.
Be careful, there are surprises around!
I cant tell you more, it would take the fun out. But the A1 will act differently which i enjoy.
Have fun generals!

[kommandant]

Once you ally with Rome, the Greek wars are over!

what do you mean by that exactly? im a little lost here

[Scipio praeditus]

At OP;

The experience you had sounds really enjoyable, I tried a Spartan campaign and found it to be a bit dissapointing.
In the first turn I took the rebel city near Athens, then went on to take Corinth and the greek city above it in the same turn, because none of them had walls.

In the second turn I took Athens and realized that this campaign was not for me, I had hoped for a struggle for supremacy with the Greek cities but there was none to be had.
Perhaps I'll start a new campaign and screw it up to your example, there may be some fun in it then.

[swhunter]

At OP;

The experience you had sounds really enjoyable, I tried a Spartan campaign and found it to be a bit dissapointing.
In the first turn I took the rebel city near Athens, then went on to take Corinth and the greek city above it in the same turn, because none of them had walls.

In the second turn I took Athens and realized that this campaign was not for me, I had hoped for a struggle for supremacy with the Greek cities but there was none to be had.
Perhaps I'll start a new campaign and screw it up to your example, there may be some fun in it then.

Are you playing h/h ?
Also the free Greeks should have 4 to 5 stacks at that time.
Which i see on the first turn.
Your limited with one stack for Sparta. And a half for the city.
Also Sparta should have low income. Then it builds as you take cities/ ports.
You have to attack Olympia also, how did that work out? Thebes and Corinth to take before you take Athens.
The a1 should have another stack from other factions bringing them from rodes, and Crete.
This is for rtw 1.5

[Scipio praeditus]

Are you playing h/h ?
Also the free Greeks should have 4 to 5 stacks at that time.
Which i see on the first turn.
Your limited with one stack for Sparta. And a half for the city.
Also Sparta should have low income. Then it builds as you take cities/ ports.
You have to attack Olympia also, how did that work out? Thebes and Corinth to take before you take Athens.
The a1 should have another stack from other factions bringing them from rodes, and Crete.
This is for rtw 1.5

I'm playing BIexe h/m, as I dislike the unrealistic morale bonus the AI gets on hard battle difficulty resulting in unrealistically long drawn out fights.

I just checked the amount of greek armies on startup, they have less than three full stacks on the mainland (with the largest number of units, about one third, stationed in Thermos that is too far away to react, they didn't even try in my campaign) and are unable or unwilling to get any reinforcements from the islands within the first few turns after which there are no more cities to save on the mainland.
One stack of spartans is enough.

Sparta has negative income to start with, that is exactly why I took Argos, Korinthos, Thebes and Athenai (in that order) in the first two turns (taking only Olympia in the first turn just didn't seem logical), otherwise I might have tried taking olympia and Kudonia first, then giving the greeks a chance to make it challenging.

To make the early spartan campaign any fun they should have been given Kudonia (their historical allies), a viable economy that allows you to at least build some stuff, a small army that is barely able to defend against invaders and unable to mount an attack untill your economy is improved allowing you to recruit more units.

I will try going for Olympia and Kudonia first when I next start a spartan campaign, that might make the difference.

[swhunter]

what do you mean by that exactly? im a little lost here

When you start the game your at war with Free Greeks.
Once you become allies with Rome, the Greek's will want peace.
Only the Free Greek rebels( represent hundreds of factions on the map)
will be at war with you.
Athens, Corinth, and a few others will want peace.
But when you attack them, then all free Greeks will fight you.

[kommandant]

When you start the game your at war with Free Greeks.
Once you become allies with Rome, the Greek's will want peace.
Only the Free Greek rebels( represent hundreds of factions on the map)
will be at war with you.
Athens, Corinth, and a few others will want peace.
But when you attack them, then all free Greeks will fight you.

oh i didn't know that, I'll try that next time i play because i usually ally with Macedon

[toluas]

I think he's referring to 3-4 elephants (with gold chevrons)

[Striker]

Damn it i'm sleeping here, thanks for waking me up Toluas

[toluas]

np

[kommandant]

well that decision that i made has really fd me

even though the Greeks have been weakened by the constant fighting with me and Macedon(Thebes)
they still have almost an unbreakable wall that neither one of us can penetrate, so instead i invaded
Crete, but to my surprise there were three nations fighting for the island, the Greeks, Macedonians and
the Plotemies, so i decided to join the fight

at first i was successful and i was able to take the city and expel the others from the island
this worked for a couple of years but the Macedonians invaded with another full stack, several years
past i once again defeated the Macedonians but at a cost, more than half the army had been decimated
and at that time the Plotemies decided to land a full stack of super heroes on my island and besieging it

i had no other option than to negotiate a ceasefire but they would only accept it if i gave them the
island which i did and retreated my wounded army back to Sparta for retraining against the Greeks on
the mainland which i was losing badly, after retraining the army i decided to send it to Thermos and raze
it to the ground and give it to my Roman allies, the army was successful and the cash i earned from
destroying the city i was able to completely retrain my two armies on the mainland against the Greeks
after which i did give it to Rome and now the Macedonians are really feeling the pressure which
hopefully will give me the chance to expand

this campaign is starting to become more than what i can handle , to my north i have the
Macedonians and Greeks(they still have gold chevron units, a lot of them), to my south lies the
island of Crete which is still contested by Macedon and Egyptians, to the west lies Rome(not looking to
be facing those legions just yet, already done it and had huge casualties because i didn't have the levy
pikemen) but to my east lies the island of Rhodes(i think is still under Greek control) which i might
attack to expand my Spartan influence

i love this campaign, it actually has me thinking