How Roman were Rome's subjects?

[Blaze86420]

Given the prevalence of many native languages and cultures in the Roman Empire, how Roman were Roman subjects culturaly and linguistically during the early Imperial period? And to what degree is medieval european culture (not language) influenced by the Romans?

[Carpathian Wolf]

Given the prevalence of many native languages and cultures in the Roman Empire, how Roman were Roman subjects culturaly and linguistically during the early Imperial period? And to what degree is medieval european culture (not language) influenced by the Romans?

Whatever was under Roman rule became in itself Roman.

[Blaze86420]

Whatever was under Roman rule became in itself Roman.

You're just saying that to assert your opinion regarding the ethnic origins of your nation.

[hellheaven1987]

Whatever was under Roman rule became in itself Roman.

Including Romania I guess.

[Blaze86420]

Including Romania I guess.

Nope. Sorry. I beat you to it.

[Carpathian Wolf]

You won't get rep for this troll so stop trying lol

[Carpathian Wolf]

Yea nt

[motiv-8]

Given the prevalence of many native languages and cultures in the Roman Empire, how Roman were Roman subjects culturaly and linguistically during the early Imperial period? And to what degree is medieval european culture (not language) influenced by the Romans?

That's a pretty tricky question, friend. You have to get a little more specific than this, for example which time period are you talking about? What it meant to be Roman was different for a Roman living in the 1st Century BC than what it meant for a Roman living in the 3rd AD or the 6th. For example, Carpathian Wolf's answer is (ironically) a very "Byzantine" way of understanding the identity, wherein it was enough to be Christian, (preferably) speak Greek, and live within the Empire's borders. Such an identity for self-described Romans would have been very alien to a Republican citizen or even a provincial in, say, Pannonia in the early Empire.

[SigniferOne]

Given the prevalence of many native languages and cultures in the Roman Empire, how Roman were Roman subjects culturaly and linguistically during the early Imperial period? And to what degree is medieval european culture (not language) influenced by the Romans?

It's a mistake to believe that there was a 'prevalance of many native languages'. See for example modern Romania, where whatever Dacian there was, was displaced so completely, and in just 100 years, that modern Romanian resembles ancient Latin more than any other Romance language, even French or Italian. There wasn't any physical coercion on the matter, and it is certainly true that the native languages were present in remoter locations, but that shouldn't be overstated.

[ray243]

It's a mistake to believe that there was a 'prevalance of many native languages'. See for example modern Romania, where whatever Dacian there was, was displaced so completely, and in just 100 years, that modern Romanian resembles ancient Latin more than any other Romance language, even French or Italian. There wasn't any physical coercion on the matter, and it is certainly true that the native languages were present in remoter locations, but that shouldn't be overstated.

Sure, the elites that lives in the provinces would definitely be able to speak Latin fluently. However, this does not mean that the lower class are fluent in latin. A study of the sources would tell you that many of the edicts are issued in native language during the late Imperial era.

You are also forgetting that there is a reason why the Byzantine Empire adopted Greek as their official language instead of latin. It just goes to shows that the image that everyone in the Roman Empire speaks Latin is false.

[SigniferOne]

Sure, the elites that lives in the provinces would definitely be able to speak Latin fluently. However, this does not mean that the lower class are fluent in latin. A study of the sources would tell you that many of the edicts are issued in native language during the late Imperial era.

Of course native languages existed, even Punic was spoken centuries after the Empire was formed. The point is that Latin was spread far more than just on a select level of a few elites, as you claim. Just look at Romania, so much authentically classical Latin that a person who speaks classical Latin fluently will be easily able to understand Romanian. See a similar story with all of the Romance languages -- Gaul entirely Latinized; whatever Spanish dialects existed in Iberia all replaced by an entirely Latinized dialect; that's what we call the Romance languages.

You are also forgetting that there is a reason why the Byzantine Empire adopted Greek as their official language instead of latin. It just goes to shows that the image that everyone in the Roman Empire speaks Latin is false.

Yes in the east Greek was allowed to be favored on an official level, and you don't see the same level of Latinization there. But between these two languages, Latin and Greek, we describe pretty much all of the important languages that were spoken in any but the remotest ethnic village in the Empire.

[Dr. Oza]

ethnically, not really

culturally, and linguistically, the full roman empire assured that assimilation was relatively easy, people took roman names, worshipped roman gods (among local gods) and spoke latin so as to conduct business... and army service made that much easier to take place

eastern roman empire, greeks , anatolians, and arabs consisted of most of the people, the ruling class was still roman by then

western.. well it collapsed, but germans..

[Carpathian Wolf]

That's a pretty tricky question, friend. You have to get a little more specific than this, for example which time period are you talking about? What it meant to be Roman was different for a Roman living in the 1st Century BC than what it meant for a Roman living in the 3rd AD or the 6th. For example, Carpathian Wolf's answer is (ironically) a very "Byzantine" way of understanding the identity, wherein it was enough to be Christian, (preferably) speak Greek, and live within the Empire's borders. Such an identity for self-described Romans would have been very alien to a Republican citizen or even a provincial in, say, Pannonia in the early Empire.

Actually I think my answer is pretty much what it was during even the late era of the Republic, early Empire. Pretty much anyone could become a citizen if the right efforts were put in place. When Rome was a Kingdom, only the people within Rome itself were Romans. Later the Italians got assimilated, Spaniards, Nubians, Celts, Thracians etc. And Emperor Caracal granted citizenship to everyone within the Empire. There were no "The Romans" in the sense that we think for example "The Japanese" or "The Polish." Roman was more or less a status term. But yes Roman, or the meaning of it evolved.

It's a mistake to believe that there was a 'prevalance of many native languages'. See for example modern Romania, where whatever Dacian there was, was displaced so completely, and in just 100 years, that modern Romanian resembles ancient Latin more than any other Romance language, even French or Italian. There wasn't any physical coercion on the matter, and it is certainly true that the native languages were present in remoter locations, but that shouldn't be overstated.

Yeah what you had in Dacia was the largest colonial effort in Roman history. Where you had the remnants of the Dacian populace being flooded with Latin colonists. Many from Rome and Italy itself, others from Syria, Gaul, Greek, Thrace, a fairly diverse group, but they all had one thing in common, Latin. I mean think of America and all the various people in the last 100 years that left off spring. Does anyone who had a "polish grandfather" and "german grandmother" or whatever speak any of those languages? No. In both instances the people were in a situation where the "lingua franca" became part of even the home life.

[ivan_the_terrible]

ethnically, not really

culturally, and linguistically, the full roman empire assured that assimilation was relatively easy, people took roman names, worshipped roman gods (among local gods) and spoke latin so as to conduct business... and army service made that much easier to take place

I was under the impression that Greek remained the primary language in the eastern Mediterranean...

[Dr. Oza]

Yeah what you had in Dacia was the largest colonial effort in Roman history. Where you had the remnants of the Dacian populace being flooded with Latin colonists. Many from Rome and Italy itself, others from Syria, Gaul, Greek, Thrace, a fairly diverse group, but they all had one thing in common, Latin. I mean think of America and all the various people in the last 100 years that left off spring. Does anyone who had a "polish grandfather" and "german grandmother" or whatever speak any of those languages? No. In both instances the people were in a situation where the "lingua franca" became part of even the home life.

oh yea definitely ... lol

[Blarni]

It varied a lot from province to province, but the biggest difference was between town and country. In the west native aristocrats in and around the 'Civitate' towns became very Roman in speech and custom, while country folk tended to continue on just as before. The east was already heavily hellenized so adapting to a Roman empire that used greek in the east anyway wouldn't have been such a stretch.

It's interesting that even though Gaul supplied an endless stream of senators, generals, even emperors etc, the Bishop Sidonius Apollinaris in the 5th century commented that the Gallic aristocracy (he lived in Lyons) was only then finally 'throwing off the scurf of Celtic speech'. Odd considering the Gaulish language wouldn't survive for much longer, perhaps Sidonius (a total snob) was commenting on accent rather than actual language.

[Timoleon of Korinthos]

63.7%

[Darth Red]

This isn't how you start a debate. There is a vauge OP that doesn't lay out any groundwork for discussion. This is how you start a chat thread not a historical discussion. No sources, facts, stats ect. Closing this. PM me or report this if you disagree.