Playing as Saba

[Ninefingers]

So I've been trying my hand as Saba recently, as their starting position suits my style of play (turtling / slow expansionism).

I've been running into some troubles however, and have had to restart four campaigns, all of which reach their inevitable conclusion at the same time; when the Ptolemies declare war. Essentially my problem boils down to this; the units at my disposal are no match for phalangite-based armies.

Normally I will take the Arabian peninsula relatively quickly, usually going to war with the EK over Carna, but leaving Gerra to the rebels to avoid conflict with the TSE, Pontus or Armenia (whomever is holding the neighboring regions at the tiem). So far so good, my economy is booming and there's only one way to get to Carna so I can hold off the EK easily. Then comes time to expand my fledgling empire and Ethiopia seems the natural choice, since I'm already at war with the EK.

A quick boatride later I take Axum, with the EK usually still holding the two cities above it at this point. It's at this point that things start to go poorly.

Taking out the EK in Africa is no problem; they are dependent on AOR units and tend to be at war with half a dozen factions so their economy can't support a counter-offensive. However, thanks to the AI's general insensitivities, taking either or both of these settlements inevitably leads to war with the Ptolemies (who have thus far always held bordering regions).

Now, so far in every Saba campaign I've played, my allies the TSE have been decimated early on. Antioch has been taken by the Ptolemies (twice), Pontus (once) and the Indie Greeks (once). So by the time the Ptolemies declare war on me, they are well established.

I have tried holding off as best as I can, using the most "elite" armies I can field at that point (Heavy Spearmen, Sabaean Archers, Heavy Cavalry and some solid AOR units like Ethiopian Axemen) but as the majority of my trade income is ruined at this point (since the Ptolemies and EK control most of the nearby ports I could potentially trade with), I can't mount a good offensive until I get a bit of breathing room, which isn't very forthcoming.

Depending on how long it takes me to get to this point, I either face an absurd number of machimoi / nubian stacks which eventually whittle me down or a few stacks of cleruchs, which basically murder anything I throw at them.

I don't have Temple Guards yet as my wartime economy can't really take the 12k hit for the proper barracks, are they worth it? Can I fight back if I hold off and wait for a stack of TG -supported Heavy Spearmen with some cavalry / camel support?

Or am I going about this the wrong way? Obviously Saba are not an infantry-based faction, but their cavalry isn't that hot either, so just what the hell are they good at? How can I fight a Hellenic faction with armies comprised of almost-spearmen, almost-archers and jav cav that runs out of javs before they take out half an elite phalanx?

Help me Obi-Wan, you're my only hope!

[DimeBagHo]

Heavy Spearmen plus Camel Archers is all you need. Use your spearmen to hold the enemy line, and flank with your camels. As much as possible try to get you camels to shoot into the enemy directly from behind or at least from the right, so shields won't provide any protection. Also try to avoid fighting phalanx units head on. Use feints and hit and run attacks to break up the enemy line and attack them from the side or rear if possible. You can also use similar tactics with Axemen and Cavalry, just don't try going head to head with heavy infantry factions.

[TM Is Back]

Or, do not venture into Nubia, but into India instead.

[knguyen_93]

Or, do not venture into Nubia, but into India instead.

Same thing but different opponents, Bactria and Parthia instead of Ptolemies

[TM Is Back]

Same thing but different opponents, Bactria and Parthia instead of Ptolemies

But Bactria has no cleruchs Only normal phalangites, and Parthia has no Phalangites at all IIRC.

[DimeBagHo]

Heading to India is not a bad idea, but it is harder to defend than East Africa/Egypt. Even if you don't invade it's worth sending a family member over there to buy some elephants. That's one thing that will definitely work against heavy infantry.

When I played Saba I preferred to go for Egypt but I usually sailed up the Red Sea to attack Memphis and then Alexandria, rather than starting in Ethiopia.

[knguyen_93]

But Bactria has no cleruchs Only normal phalangites, and Parthia has no Phalangites at all IIRC.

Ptolemies phalanx is inferior to greek normal phalanx!!!!

[Ninefingers]

Some interesting ideas, thanks for the tips! I started an Armenia campaign in the meantime (what fun!) but will give these a go shortly. I hadn't even thought about heading for India instead, or going straight for the Ptolemies' powerhouse cities. Of course, once I take them I'll still have to deal with having poorer units than surrounding factions...so if not by quality, then by quantity!

[TM Is Back]

Ptolemies phalanx is inferior to greek normal phalanx!!!!

Cleruch Phalangites are superior tot Greek Phalangites IIRC. Only the strongest Greek Phalangites beat the Cleruchs.

[Belisarius500]

Or, do not venture into Nubia, but into India instead.

take patala and if possible opiana and taxila....huge income and revenue plus you get to have elephants

[nhinhonhinho]

Go to Egypt is the best choice for Saba. Ptolemies army is really weak and lightly armor and your Camel Archers can smash them easily. After Ptolemies move to the North and fighting TSE

[MkdRanger]

what about Foot Companions,Bronze Shields,Perikoi Phalanx and Silver Shields?