Forts overpowered ?

[Babri]

They cost only 500 florins, are built instantly & get towers, stone walls, boiling gates etc. I think they should cost more like 2000 florins & need 2 turns to build so that you just don't spam them in enemy borders & build them in your own territory most of the time. Any ideas ?

[Lord Lancelot]

Actually yes, but i think it is becouse , there is not changed fort coast, so it coast like wooden fort.

[Babri]

Actually yes, but i think it is becouse , there is not changed fort coast, so it coast like wooden fort.

Coast ? Do you mean the cost of the fort ?
Anyways it requires some rebalancing. And the Early Light cavalry are too cheap. They can do a lot of damage but cost only around 300 florins.

[Lord Lancelot]

Coast ? Do you mean the cost of the fort ?
Anyways it requires some rebalancing. And the Early Light cavalry are too cheap. They can do a lot of damage but cost only around 300 florins.

Oh sorry it is cost

[sbroadbent]

They cost only 500 florins, are built instantly & get towers, stone walls, boiling gates etc. I think they should cost more like 2000 florins & need 2 turns to build so that you just don't spam them in enemy borders & build them in your own territory most of the time. Any ideas ?

You're asking to increase the cost of forts so that YOU don't spam them? Here's a thought. How about you don't spam them

Better yet, each time you want to build a fort, open the console and type "add_money -1500"

That -1500 plus the 500 cost to build will bring you up to the 2000 florins cost you requested. Simple solution and doesn't require a fix!

Or are you complaining about what other people are doing in their single player games?

[TheBard]

You're asking to increase the cost of forts so that YOU don't spam them? Here's a thought. How about you don't spam them
...

Or are you complaining about what other people are doing in their single player games?

As someone who uses extensive house rules and often tires of the same old AARs ("My 300-man army easily routs the 1000-man enemy for the tenth time in a row"), I know I sometimes get annoyed with people taking advantage of exploits and then bragging about how good they are here.

I'm not saying that is what Babri means, I just know that I sometimes forget that everyone wants to play it their own way and I really shouldn't care. I never play MP, so it really doesn't matter what others do or don't do. It's sometimes hard to get away from trying to "help" make the game harder for everyone, when a lot of people may not actually want that.

[Neptune7]

I never build forts, but I am thinking about building some. I am currently reading a great book on the French and Indian War, Crucible of War by Fred Anderson, and the French and the English are building a bunch of Forts.

Anyways, in the game, I don't think you can build forts in enemy territrory. Can you?..

[sbroadbent]

I never build forts, but I am thinking about building some. I don't think you can build forts in enemy territrory. Can you?..

Yes, you can build forts in enemy territory. You can't build watchtowers in enemy territory though.

[Neptune7]

Yes, you can build forts in enemy territory. You can't build watchtowers in enemy territory though.

Your kidding me. Why that opens up a new dimension to strategy..thanks..

[Gorrrrrn]

there's a line in the descr_campaign_db.xml file that determines this:

<allow_enemy_forts bool="false"/> <!-- do we allow forts to be built in enemy regions -->

that's from the RozMod by the way. your version may vary. e&oe.

[Alavaria]

Well, to me the real advantage is that a fort (wood or stone) slows down the enemy on the campaign map. Better yet, it makes the enemy (if you sally, drawing in reinforcements of course) switch to a very passive battle AI ^___^ which is annoying if they have good archers (or artillery).

Still, if it was the old "crappy" wooden fort, there's a very fun thing you can do, involving trapping the enemy inside the fort (you can guess how) and killing them en masse with catapaults and treb fireballs.

Either way though, it's a good method for dealing with cavalry especially the light missile-shooting variety, if you can get them trapped inside one.

[Medkirtys]

Well, to me the real advantage is that a fort (wood or stone) slows down the enemy on the campaign map. Better yet, it makes the enemy (if you sally, drawing in reinforcements of course) switch to a very passive battle AI ^___^ which is annoying if they have good archers (or artillery).

Still, if it was the old "crappy" wooden fort, there's a very fun thing you can do, involving trapping the enemy inside the fort (you can guess how) and killing them en masse with catapaults and treb fireballs.

Either way though, it's a good method for dealing with cavalry especially the light missile-shooting variety, if you can get them trapped inside one.

Seriously, how

[Alavaria]

Seriously, how

Well, usually 3 levy archers in a fort frightens the AI witless, however, sometimes it may SIEGE said fort. Usually it will need quite a force to decide to do so. On your turn, have your trio of peasants sally. Autoresolve (and lose). The victorious AI army occupies the fort! Siege said fort - they're trapped inside.

As to the trick with trebs/catapaults/onagers (works in RTW) it's similar - (you can shoot over the walls in RTW fort). In M2TW, the wooden fort is like RTW's. In some mods, the "wooden fort" is like a small castle, you can also shoot over the walls or break them easily. With long ranged fireballs (trebs) or just strong artillery (cannons) you can rake the enemy army mostly to death, making full use of all the artillery ammunition.

If there's powerful cannons, you can (probably) still be quite successful with the current stone forts. Blow some holes, shoot the enemy through the gaps etc etc (crossbowmen in particular love this, as they get to shoot to their hearts' content). Never did it myself (usually starved out cavalry armies until they ran out the gates into my spearmen) as I haven't played long enough (people die so fast!) to get gunpowder.

It's nice to see starving Hungarian horse archers rush out of their gates into a swarm of mail-clad Italian Urban Spear Militia ^____^ (Forts starve faster than a castle or city, of course).

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For additional effect, sometimes (well, generally) the AI likes to try and "relive" the siege, even if only with a single unit. If your fort is next to a bridge/fort >.> then you can *easily* provoke the AI, making the full stack (that was in the fort) come out on a bridge battle. Results: generally predictable.

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Another hint. Quite a few forts are raised slightly or on an incline etc. If you position your infantry right, when enemies come out of the gate, they'll pile up and be in easy view of archers and crossbows. 3 units of strong spearmen can hold a whole stack quite comfortably (enemy archers have difficulty clearing the gate sometimes). Then have 5 units of crossbows shoot everyone to death. Made good use of this to kill the Pope's stack once - all this Papal guard (5+ units) and other men were reduced to a few men fighting hand-to-hand in the front ranks, everyone else standing behind in a dense mass catching crossbow bolts.

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Other uses are combat control. If the enemy is in a fort, you're unlikely to suffer a chain rout making your whole army run >.> as only a few units will suffice in the street combat. Routing men are only captured, not killed, so even if many small routs occur, you should get them back at the end. (Shooting crossbows at people cowering in the fort square is also a bucket of laughs.)

[Gallapagos]

I dont think they are that overpowered.

[Babri]

Then why don't switch them back to wooden walls earlier in the game & stone walls in late game . Early stone forts are too powerful to deal with.

Better yet, each time you want to build a fort, open the console and type "add_money -1500"

That -1500 plus the 500 cost to build will bring you up to the 2000 florins cost you requested. Simple solution and doesn't require a fix!

Or are you complaining about what other people are doing in their single player games?

If that was the case then why did SS team worked hard for balancing. Why didn't they left it for the individuals to set the unit stats, building time etc. Your response shows that you are a lazy guy.

[sbroadbent]

If that was the case then why did SS team worked hard for balancing. Why didn't they left it for the individuals to set the unit stats, building time etc. Your response shows that you are a lazy guy.

Balancing is an ongoing process, and ultimately depends on what the goal is. 6.1 (and probably previous versions... I started with 6.1) limited where you could build forts. 6.2 completely removed them. Now they are back in 6.3.

How am I lazy for giving you a solution to your problem? You wanted forts to cost YOU an extra 1500 florins, and I gave you the means to do so. The only other reason I can see for your complaint is that you are bothered by other people not being forced to spend 2000 florins for a fort, but consider what they do in their game has no effect on you or your game.

Apparently you're the lazy one for wanting someone else to change the cost for you. Perhaps you should make a sub-mod with a more appropriate cost?

[Baywatch]

I'd say the stone forts are easily the most defensible "settlements" in the entire game. Speaking from a multiplayer perspective, it's very difficult to win as the attacker unless you are given drastically more florins to spend. So, costing 500 may be a bit too low but, as others have said there are many easy fixes for this. One of them is to just not spam forts.

There is a way to permanently fix it for yourself of course, and that is to edit the cost for these forts in the game files. Unfortunately this falls outside of my area of expertise... If I had to take a guess, I'd say it's likely somewhere in the export_desc_buildings.txt although again that's just a guess.

[Paladin94610]

Does SS 6.3 allow temporary stone forts with 500 florins. I never know.

Anyway, it is better to make permanent stone forts, which are indestructible, non-buildable and permanent stone forts, positioned in your own favorite coordinates on the map with your favorable stone fort models from Kingdoms stone forts. Get Roz mod or make your own fort mod with Geomod.

If you want some free unit upkeep feature like Settlements give to certain number of Militia units, add this line in descr_strat under rebel spawn value,

free_upkeep_forts 5 (or add the number of free upkeep units limit- max 20)

[Gorrrrrn]

If that was the case then why did SS team worked hard for balancing. Why didn't they left it for the individuals to set the unit stats, building time etc. Your response shows that you are a lazy guy.

Babri - please remember that it's game we're playing. whilst the SS team does try to get what it considers to be a balanced game, we're all different and some people will want to play the game their way and so will change it to suit themselves. there's no right or wrong way to play the game.

I'm sure people could say the same about CA - they tried hard to make a balanced game and along come people like the SS team and change everything to suit themselves

[Vespasian92]

Babri, if you think it is too easy to spam forts, then you must be the one spamming them. I rarely hear of anyone else spamming forts, maybe occasionally strategicly placing one or two, but if you spam forts, then that's your problem to control yourself than the SS developers' to balance the game.