A simple solution to waste…

[Amorphos]

A simple solution to waste… [or part solution at worst]

We waste far to much, and even with recycling there is loss which eventually amounts to waste e.g. in many cases 10% of a product is lost in the process of recycling, hence after a few recycles the whole thing is lost ~ not to mention the amount of energy used in the process etc.

We go to the supermarkets with an empty car boot, and come back with a load of containers full of food and other products. We then consume/use the products then throw the containers away. Recently the way we dispose of waste has changed around Britain, in my area we now have 7 different bins to put different kinds of waste in ~ which frankly is more of a pain in the arse than my solution. The solution is simple; change the way supermarkets work and products for it are made, such that we take containers to the supermarkets, fill them up and come home with containers full of products as we would normally. We then reuse all the containers and nothing is wasted, there would be virtually no waste to put in the rubbish bins [except sanitary etc] and no need to recycle, saving loads of money, the environment and giving our decedents a better future.

Plausible?
.

[Claudius Gothicus]

We go to the supermarkets with an empty car boot, and come back with a load of containers full of food and other products. We then consume/use the products then throw the containers away. Recently the way we dispose of waste has changed around Britain, in my area we now have 7 different bins to put different kinds of waste in ~ which frankly is more of a pain in the arse than my solution. The solution is simple; change the way supermarkets work and products for it are made, such that we take containers to the supermarkets, fill them up and come home with containers full of products as we would normally. We then reuse all the containers and nothing is wasted, there would be virtually no waste to put in the rubbish bins [except sanitary etc] and no need to recycle, saving loads of money, the environment and giving our decedents a better future.

Plausible?
.

Some parts of your theory are quite plausible... I for one would aim to the elimination of plastic bags.

[Lordinquisitor]

I like it. So, for example, you bring a bottle to the supermarket and fill it with water?

[Amorphos]

Some parts of your theory are quite plausible... I for one would aim to the elimination of plastic bags.

That and everything else, I hate throwing plastic containers away especially.

I like it. So, for example, you bring a bottle to the supermarket and fill it with water?

Indeed, or whine, beer etc. more than that over a period of time manufacturers and supermarkets could work together to make more things that can be refilled with our own containers. For example, if they made a transparent tower of say baked beens, you then fill up as much as you want via a nozzle/tap. If the tower was tall the supermarkets would gain a mass of volume [think of all the tins on a shelf being replace by a tower] and hence be able to sell more variants of goods.

[Lordinquisitor]

The problem i see here is that there a lot of different brands of food. For example beer. That would mean you`d need many, and quite big, tanks filled with the different beer.

[Amorphos]

The problem i see here is that there a lot of different brands of food. For example beer. That would mean you`d need many, and quite big, tanks filled with the different beer.

I considered that and reasoned that if you made the containers thin but tall, they would take up a similar if not less volume as a host of cans on a shelf. Equally the isles would have far less depth so you can have more isles. You have to think of it in terms of volumes and spaces, most supermarkets are like warehouses and very high ceilings, so you can have very tall containers.

[JNS]

You have a very good idea, that could work pretty well with most liquid products and some grains. It would largely reduce waste. The problem is that obviously this wouldn't work with every product, and the logistics of suplying large tanks of a product that degenerates quickly like milk.

Something that could work is that the supermarkets and the suppliers of commercial food products could make a deal in which custumers bring back their empty cans or containers (+money) in exhange for the same product. It used to work similarily with milk in the past, and i remebered a few restaurants where i lived in spain sent their spent soda bottles back to the manufacturer (something that i have never seen in this side of the atlantic), to be refilled and repackaged.

[Amorphos]

You have a very good idea, that could work pretty well with most liquid products and some grains. It would largely reduce waste. The problem is that obviously this wouldn't work with every product, and the logistics of suplying large tanks of a product that degenerates quickly like milk.

Not really, there currently are gallons of milk on the shelves at any one time, so what’s the difference between that and a single container with the same amount of milk on tap?

Something that could work is that the supermarkets and the suppliers of commercial food products could make a deal in which custumers bring back their empty cans or containers (+money) in exhange for the same product. It used to work similarily with milk in the past, and i remebered a few restaurants where i lived in spain sent their spent soda bottles back to the manufacturer (something that i have never seen in this side of the atlantic), to be refilled and repackaged.

maybe, apparently they do that in germany on some things, but the problem is that no-one these days cares about the few pence you would get for the returns. You also have to have facilities for such operations and on all products, in germany they have warehouses next to supermarkets for this, but that just for bottles. It seams far easier for us to provide our own containers rather than build a load of warehouses and hope that people will do their part.

[JNS]

[QUOTE=Quetzalcoatl;8194054]Not really, there currently are gallons of milk on the shelves at any one time, so what’s the difference between that and a single container with the same amount of milk on tap?

QUOTE]

My concern with a liquid such as milk is that unlike other liquids (if i remember my chemistry correctly) it isn't completely homogeneus. Also there's the feeling like another poster mentioned that some of these dispensers would have to be properly mantained, or else they would become unsanitary.

Although I guess liquids such as juices from concentrate and sodas could work, as we already have machines that mix the components before dispensing already.

[Theseus1234]

There's still problems with shipping and manufacturing that must be changed (i.e. a beer created in the liquid state in no set container would have to arrive at the supermarket in no set container). I like the idea, though, despite this nagging sense I'm getting that it would eventually become unsanitary. Also, giants in the glass and plastic industry would be very upset.

[Amorphos]

There's still problems with shipping and manufacturing that must be changed (i.e. a beer created in the liquid state in no set container would have to arrive at the supermarket in no set container).

I don’t see the difference in pouring it into a bottle or can as to pouring it into a larger container.

I like the idea, though, despite this nagging sense I'm getting that it would eventually become unsanitary.

Yea I thought that too, I am sure these things can be resolved in the way the contents are delivered [we are only talking a container as big as e.g. 50 to 100 beer cans], and for extra safety the taps could fit into a mechanism which cleans them after say 10 uses. Where there’s a problem there is always a solution.

Also, giants in the glass and plastic industry would be very upset.

They get to make the new style containers and those we buy to use ourselves ~ which is a new product. They could make the delivery systems and cleansing equipment, also perhaps they could do the cleaning of the large containers ready for manufacturers to fill up again. Lots of new product potential there e.g. making a set of containers that fit perfectly into trolleys and into each other for ease of use, not to mention more decorative containers for around the kitchen.




edit;

My concern with a liquid such as milk is that unlike other liquids (if i remember my chemistry correctly) it isn't completely homogeneus.

On farms you have [or used to have] milk churns which have a few gallons in them and would probably be around the same size as what I envisage. In other words you just cut out the final stage of the manufacturing process [putting into cartons] which the shoppers themselves would now do [make a bit more profit too!].

Although I guess liquids such as juices from concentrate and sodas could work, as we already have machines that mix the components before dispensing already.

Sure thing but I think you have to do most everything to make the system work, certainly if we want to stop throwing away our children’s inheritance [the earth and its materials].

[Carpathian Wolf]

In Romania my grandmother goes to open air markets and fills her bag (made of durable material, not the flimsy ones) and re-uses it again and again and again.

I think the issue is these new style markets and stores where EVERYTHING is packaged. Plastic here, wrapped there. It looks nicer but it does cause a lot of waste.

[CarbEast]

As a matter of fact, this method is almost as old as the (industrial) world. Washing and reusing is what usually happens with glass bottles. The problems are: 1. glass is not optimal in too many cases, 2. reusing glass bottles still cost more than making new plastic ones. Recycling is much more viable, both economically and practically, because in recycling you can proceed the whole mass of material in uniform way, while reusing requires personal attention to each package, which makes it much more labor-intensive and harder to mechanize/automatize.

[Amorphos]

In Romania my grandmother goes to open air markets and fills her bag (made of durable material, not the flimsy ones) and re-uses it again and again and again.
I think the issue is these new style markets and stores where EVERYTHING is packaged. Plastic here, wrapped there. It looks nicer but it does cause a lot of waste.

Exactly so, we used to have markets like that which I think are way better, sometimes the old ways [which worked!] are the best.

As a matter of fact, this method is almost as old as the (industrial) world. Washing and reusing is what usually happens with glass bottles. The problems are: 1. glass is not optimal in too many cases, 2. reusing glass bottles still cost more than making new plastic ones. Recycling is much more viable, both economically and practically, because in recycling you can proceed the whole mass of material in uniform way, while reusing requires personal attention to each package, which makes it much more labor-intensive and harder to mechanize/automatize.

Yes but my solution is for the shoppers to use their own containers and their own labour to clean and reuse them, so all of that doesn’t apply. Recycling is very wasteful and it is cheaper for manufacturers to supply the products in large reusable containers than to produce or recycle new ones.

[CarbEast]

Yes but my solution is for the shoppers to use their own containers and their own labour to clean and reuse them, so all of that doesn’t apply.

Why doesn't it apply? Shoppers don't have to pay to their workers?

Recycling is very wasteful and it is cheaper for manufacturers to supply the products in large reusable containers than to produce or recycle new ones.

Pretty much all what arrives at the plant turns into useful material again, so it's not wasteful. Making something little cheaper for manufacturer doesn't really compensate for big increase in expenditures on shopper's side. The end product costs more too.

[Amorphos]

Every company should pay to help cover the cost of disposing of the packaging.

sure but there would be far less [or none] packaging and they can make up for the cost by having less to do to get their products to the costuimer.

Why doesn't it apply? Shoppers don't have to pay to their workers?

Because the industries don’t have to clean their containers, we would. much of the recycling would be unneccesary.

Pretty much all what arrives at the plant turns into useful material again, so it's not wasteful. Making something little cheaper for manufacturer doesn't really compensate for big increase in expenditures on shopper's side. The end product costs more too.

I am informed that you loose a certain percentage, as much as 10%, so after 10 cycles [in this case] the original material is lost [+ energy used]. Whats the big expenditure on the shoppers side? You buy a load of containers, probably for twenty quid or something and the whole thing would take years to phaze in, so that is spread over time. The end product would be cheaper as you are not paying for the cost of the containers.

[Denny Crane!]

Every company should pay to help cover the cost of disposing of the packaging.

[roy34543]

Unfortunatly the problem is that its a really labour intensive model, and it doesnt neccasarily save on containers as much as youd think. You still need large overall containers for say , drinks, and you dont really want to keep a container in which food has rotted, and teling people to just stuff their hands into a bin full of snacks wouldnt exactly appeal to many.

[InsaneHanz]

Why don't we just throw waste into landfills like we have been? Seems to be working well.

[Furious Mental]

This would work with the stuff that has high enough turnover to be gone through before it starts decomposing on the shelf, i.e. fruits and vegs, rice, etc - stuff which is often already generally sold in vats. Wouldn't work for anything else, for reason which others have already gone into. Right now the capital investment required to set up the shelving in a supermarked is just that - a bunch of metal shelves. Now you are proposing bringing in all sorts of complex machinery which would have to be constantly maintained and insured, and then dismantled and moved whenver shelving arrangements are to be altered or the business's lease on the premises expired. Interesting idea but ultimately one that goes nowhere. The real solution is to do things like work out what people use in large amounts and buy it in bulk with less packaging, as at a wholesale or warehouse retailer, reduce the amount of packing used in general, reduce the amount of energy which is expended in making the packaging which is required, and make it recyclable.