Annoying pike and shot?

[shikaka]

Hello guys!


I played quite some battles with RTW, but not much M2.


What I don't like is that this spanish/portuguese and to a lesser extent milanese/venetian tercio-like defensive box is too frequently seen.
My opponents usually set up their box, usually like: heavy infantry behind pike in 2 man line, 2nd behind pike in 2 man line, behind muskets in 2 men line. These units are quite cheap to buy too.

What I don't like:
- I don't want to play reneissance TW (and some factions who should have gunpowder infantry - like Hungary or scotland - lack it for some reason)
- I would like my opponent to maneuver, not just stand in a box in a corner/on a mountain


I can beat this when I know this will come, but that needs preparation (archer heavy army with gunwoder artillery backup, and cavalry to charge the rear), but it becomes very boring to use his army.



How do you beat tercios with a combined army?

[VersionLangley]

Give us sample replay?

depend on situation on how your opponent camp in a corner (very cheating). If he make a big quarter circle, make a general charge with inf; if a tight quarter circle, shoot or make alternating charge with inf (alternating is charged, then while the 1st group withdraw the 2nd group should already be on the charging path)

Charging with inf normally took off the first row of pike-men. If he knows how to micro his pikes prolong melee is not recommended, cycle charge with inf or flank him
If he's on a medium to steep slope, pikemen isn't that effective

as for the shot part, it still really difficult to fight without muskets of your own. But there a thread that Sodbuster or Old_scratch post on how you turn the enemy's muskets in different direction and charge your inf up.

example replay solves everything

[shikaka]

That cycle charge might work, but it usually feels so bad to charge pikes

Still, I don't know why this formation is so popular. I am really bored of fighting Spain and Portugal now...

[Armatus]

on how you turn the enemy's muskets in different direction and charge your inf up.

Naked chicks?

seriously though, I'd like to take a peek at that thread.

[VersionLangley]

yes, naked chicks are deployable traps behind enemies line in the deployment phase. Simply click on your lady's man of a general, there's a button that originally grey-out

even though OP mention online, it's in the general discussion part of the forum. You can make a looky-loo there

[Armatus]

I'm there!

yeah those pike n' shots can be nasty...

[Om noml]

I believe the way to mess up the musket men is to run some expendable cav to the side. The muskets should start trying to blast the cav, turning in the process. Now would be a good time to charge in, as the muskets will be in these odd, haphazard lines. In most cases, Pike/Shot armies lose their maneuverability. Use this against them.

Odd that the muskets aren't in prime formation. That might mess up my strategy.

[Armatus]

That wouldn't work for my muskets since I keep them on hold ground.

[VersionLangley]

your muskets will turn if it is on auto-fire even if it on hold ground. But there another way to make your muskets stay in place...so it will always be safer option to stay out of range until the cav detachment reach the rear. Also, not every cav can perform the operation. It have to be missile cav as your opponent can just ignore you. Missile cav force opponent musket to turn because otherwise you can simply shoot his horse.

@On noml...not sure if having a forlorn hope cav squad is a good idea m8. In a standard game where cav is limit to 6, loosing one to missile is a big deficit

[Armatus]

that's why it's good to either bring 5 or 6 guns or if not then either a couple xbows or missile cav.

[popple44090]

I think that an easy way to win would be to buy 3+ arty units (any sort) and pound at the pikes,
Then send some horse archers in at the pikes, forcing them to form a slower defensive (phalenx) formation (if your enemy is already in that formation all the easier for you).
then whilst they chase your calvalry, send in some strongly defensive infantry, followed closely by peasents and very strong attacking units,
the defence will take the damage and scince pesants are fast they will make contact second, and in the melee it will be harder for your enemy to click your offesive units (plus the stronger units tend to be smaller, making it easier to hide amonst the peasents), this will take out the muskets.
as for the heavy infantry they should be sandwitched between your calvalry and your musket-veterans by now.
I think you know what to do now

[VersionLangley]

glad you found something that works ...if you could plz post a replay
most the game played banned artillery...although if musket is allow, maybe art should be allow as well?

[D00d]

- I don't want to play reneissance TW (and some factions who should have gunpowder infantry - like Hungary or scotland - lack it for some reason)

Play 'high' period.

The only guns you'll find there are the short range handguns. Playing specific period, even if it's 'high', is generally more balanced than the 'all' period. In 'all' you have all the units you could possibly get in the campaign, meaning all factions are more or less the same (boring), except for those who get muskets, who are at an advantage. Specific periods are much more interesting and factions feel more unique.

[Armatus]

I play early, but it seems to lack variety or uniqueness.

[VersionLangley]

early seems better....all eastern faction start rushing in high period including Russian, Byz, Hung and Pol. All period is pikes spam and horse archers is becoming less effective starting with high

all period w/o muskets is good

[Armatus]

I like playing 5K early games