"Hedgehog" phalanx formation

[melnikovav]

Has anyone tried to do a square defensive phalanx? I find it incredibly strong when you are being attacked. I had 14 leavy pikemen positioned in square and 5 pelistas in the middle with general recently vs dacian barbarians. It looks like AI is smart to concentrate attack on one spot - however its still very strong. U can also have few pikes inside to reinforce whatever side you need to. What is the best way to break phalanx anyways?

[Jaytee]

If you sit in a square I am going pepper the out of your army with my four units of bowmen, not to mention my slingers AND my seige machinery which will drop rocks on your head plus on top of this bombardment, all ten legionary cohorts are going to surround you and unleash their pillums onto you. I don't even need to mention your general will be a sitting duck in the middle of this the entire time. Don't try that formation online is my advice.

[ethan340]

If you sit in a square I am going pepper the out of your army with my four units of bowmen, not to mention my slingers AND my seige machinery which will drop rocks on your head plus on top of this bombardment, all ten legionary cohorts are going to surround you and unleash their pillums onto you. I don't even need to mention your general will be a sitting duck in the middle of this the entire time. Don't try that formation online is my advice.

and what if i counter it with more archers than you? not to mention the pikes can deflect missiles too

[DarthLazy]

and what if i counter it with more archers than you? not to mention the pikes can deflect missiles too

My archers would be in loose formation and yours would be bunched up. A few volleys and they will be all dead. Then its a simple matter of shooting at the backs of your pikemen. THey dont work, unless the enemy does not have any archers or cavalry, do not even try it.

[ethan340]

My archers would be in loose formation and yours would be bunched up. A few volleys and they will be all dead. Then its a simple matter of shooting at the backs of your pikemen. THey dont work, unless the enemy does not have any archers or cavalry, do not even try it.

then i rely on upgrades instead of numbers.

[melnikovav]

I am talking about fighting barbarians in cammpaign. I am macedonians invading romania right now- its all forested and i feel uneasy moving into forests where barbs are hiding. Multiplayer in total war is broken since campaign mode isnt avalable- skimrishing to me seems pointelss with no overall strategy.

[Jaytee]

What is the best way to break phalanx anyways?

[coldfusion21]

For AI : heavy armored cavalry like cataphracts or better, those will easily brake trough levy phalanx if you don't weaken them before they charge. Another big threath is heavy armored infantry with effective against armor bonus like Armenia has.

Why use skirmishers, use something like 6 archers(the more arrows they have the better) and 13 phalanx. But if you find a nice place on top of a hill i don't know what AI army can beat that.

[youdig66]

What is the best way to break phalanx anyways?

Many ways...I prefer to make the AI split their line up in 2 or 3 parts so I can get in between and attack them from the rear, encircling them. Attacking for the side will also be a powerful phalanx-destroy tactic.

[melnikovav]

I wonder if i get elite phalanx and maybe double the files- i could invade rome. Archers is a good area I just didnt have the option to get them in my settlement. 1 cav unit is good for chasing down the broken enemies.

[DarthLazy]

So you want to make a noob box and brag about it?

[Chris Death]

Didn't find him bragging about it - did you?

He's been asking if others may have tried that too because to him it seems
to work against ai.

In singleplayer the term noob box does not even exist since against ai on your pc
you can do what you want and how you want and the best is - you don't even need
to tell somebody about how you did it.

Where's the point in naming a tactics against ai noob-xxx or noobish or whatever?

@melnikovav: yes this tactics is well known at the forums and yes - ai cannot counter
to it like it should be.

In multiplayer it is called "noob box" since it's in most cases noobs who think that tactics
which do work against an ai which cannot react individually onto player tactics but
always do the same, will work out the same easy way in multiplayer.

Then when they try it out in multiplayer it will work against the one or other noob but as soon
as they get into a battle versus a player who has already passed the noob-box stage they will
soon realize that it limits noone else but themselves.

Phalanxes don't like to get shot by missiles in their backs so advanced players turn off fire at will
and surround the noob box with their missile troops - then they shoot into the backs of the phalanxes.
They won't charge head on into your phalanx from the start - they will take their time to weaken
you since you are in a fixed defensive position you will get no other chance than to wait it out
until gg.

~S~ CD

[melnikovav]

Because you are protected in a box you can easily have half of ur troops as archers- which means you will outshoot anyone on the battlefield.

[AotxLoGiX]

Because you are protected in a box you can easily have half of ur troops as archers- which means you will outshoot anyone on the battlefield.

Problem is there are things called rules.
One popular rule is only 6 of the same unit meaning you can do a "noob-box" with phalaxes but you can only have 6 archers when the other player can have archers and mobile units like legionaires who throw pella so you are no matter what most of the time your "out-gunned" and when you run out of ammo you have a box of pikes with half of the men dead and a bunch of useless archers in the center. So if you lose a pike unit you lose the game....

[Bull3pr00f de Bodemloze]

Besides, they aren't reliable at all, even against the AI. If the AI breaks one side of your box, you're basically dead in RSII because he'll surely have some elite non-pike troops in his army.

[Magefsx]

Unless they have seige weapons, of course...

[melnikovav]

Unless they have seige weapons, of course...

ISNT 'no artillery' a common thing on multiplayer? And in single player- ai doesnt have many of them especially as barbarians.

[CliffBarney]

ISNT 'no artillery' a common thing on multiplayer? And in single player- ai doesnt have many of them especially as barbarians.

I'm Rome on H/M, year 623, 82 regions controlled. I've fought only one field battle where the enemy had siege weapons -- the Greeks, I think. They had the dumb thing sited in a gulley and every shot took out their own front ranks. Their 4th or 5th shot took out their own General!

-- Cliff in Virginia

[AotxLoGiX]

I'm Rome on H/M, year 623, 82 regions controlled. I've fought only one field battle where the enemy had siege weapons -- the Greeks, I think. They had the dumb thing sited in a gulley and every shot took out their own front ranks. Their 4th or 5th shot took out their own General!

-- Cliff in Virginia

They have artillery just dont use it very well well.

[Veliky Kaiser Theos]

Attack the corners of the phalanx square. They're poorly defended and heavy infantry will tear it apart. Which brings me to my second point: Why a square? why not a semi circle with cavalry support?