EU in 1310?!?

**Spartan90** · September 29, 2010, 03:16 AM

SS 6.1 HRE H/VH

So playing as the centrally located HRE, I guess one is able to dictate European diplomacy as a whole. But I've never experienced something like this before. Back story:

Western Europe did the usual rush of France that happens in all games. The Spanish factions managed to grab Toulouse and Bordeaux, Genoa grabbed Marseille, and I pretty much snatched everything else - leaving France in the corner with Paris, Rennes and the north-eastern cities before declaring peace (didn't want to extend my borders too far and too quickly so as not to contend with the wrath of the British Isles).

From here I allied with Denmark to secure my northern land route into Scandinavia. I hate having allies usually, but I thought because my empire was already sizably large, I'd play my hand at diplomacy, and only ally with factions that 100% will not attack each other (forcing me to choose and lower my rep). Genoa attacked, and they thoroughly disappeared within a few turns. Naturally, Venice attacked as well. But with a combined effort of Sicily, Hungrary and myself, they were kicked out of the Adriatic and Balkans and back to the Ukraine. From here, I bought myself all the regions halfway down the Italian Peninsula and allied with Sicily to secure my southern borders.

Here's where it gets interesting. My Danish allies killed off Norway and has complete control of Scandinavia. I bought every region of France except for Paris and allied with them through marriage. Poland is very preoccupied with the Teutonic Order and the pagan Lithuanians, so I haven't heard from them all game. Same with the Hungrarians with the Byzantines. The British factions all allied with each other, so I also allied with them as well. The Spanish factions are busy kicking the Muslims out of Iberia, and most importantly, I pretty much puppeteer the Pope.

It's 1310, no Catholic nations are at war with each other. Everyone is pretty much allied, or at relative peace with their Catholic nations. No one cares at all about the Crusades now that KoJ got wiped out by the Muslim factions. I'm in the middle of it all, giving all Catholic factions money to keep them happy, and no one for at least 100 turns has attacked anyone unless they border a Muslim nation. Have I accidentally created the medieval version of the EU?

More importantly, has something similar to this happened to anyone else? I can't even begin to imagine the World War 0.5 that will happen if someone dares attack another!

**JohnGlave** · September 29, 2010, 04:58 AM

I've had a slightly similar situation to this twice actually.

The first time was as Venice, I allied to Genoa so I could concentrate on the HRE and the Romans. After about a 100+ turns, two alliance blocks had formed. One was all my allies and the other was all Genoa's allies. None of Genoa's allies were allied to any of my allies, except me. Then Genoa back stabbed me, but it didn't go world wide just me and them fighting...

The other time was as the HRE. I allied to most people around me who I didn't want to fight (Poland, Hungary, Venice). The problem was, I had lots of money, and thus great garrisons in all my border settlements. So no one choose to attack me; and of course I didn't want to be excommunicated so I became glued in a vast stalemate...

**For England Men** · September 29, 2010, 05:14 AM

I think this would only be possible as the HRE as when I play a catholic faction in the west I tend to pick my friends (ones that are allied with each other) then the other half of catholics gradually ally with each other and both sides tries to keep the pope happy. Most wars are instigated by or against the HRE though so if you play them and choose peaceful behaviour it sets the trend, also what AI are you using or is that not relevant in 6.1 ?

**Spartan90** · September 29, 2010, 08:17 AM

Originally Posted by For England Men

what AI are you using or is that not relevant in 6.1 ?

AFAIK, it's irrelevant to 6.1

I'd say its the calm before the storm, as you said, it will, eventually be WW0.5 soon enough, this is, afterall, TOTAL WAR xD, so they will eventually get greedy for settlements, unless you actually managed so ALL of them have their campaing goals complete, wich i doubt, even if so, they would eventually start a war, and drag their allies in it

You make a good point, but I just can't see anything happening any time soon. All Catholic nations pretty much have the Holy Lands as one of their victory conditions as well, yet no one is even bothering about the Crusades anymore. Apart from the Muslims ripping each other to pieces in Asia Minor, the only wars happening after 200 turns of gameplay are the Spanish factions v Moors, and a mixture of factions fighting over the Lithuanians. I'm actually finding it interesting trying to keep all my allies happy, and getting a delicate balance between all the neutral factions with a gift here and there.

**bɑne** · September 30, 2010, 07:21 AM

Originally Posted by Spartan90

AFAIK, it's irrelevant to 6.1

I think there is at least one CAI submod for 6.1 out there but the switch isn't included like it is in 6.3

Originally Posted by Spartan90

Wow, seems to be a huge difference in the versions. I'll be doing the big jump between 6.1 and 6.3 in the upcoming weeks.

Campaign experience will vary on the CAI you select in 6.3 - and remember that you can keep your 6.3 install parallel to the old 6.1 so no need to uninstall unless you need the diskspace (about 5.8gb) for 6.3.

**Meneth** · September 30, 2010, 07:25 AM

Originally Posted by bane_tw

I think there is at least one CAI submod for 6.1 out there but the switch isn't included like it is in 6.3

Campaign experience will vary on the CAI you select in 6.3 - and remember that you can keep your 6.3 install parallel to the old 6.1 so no need to uninstall unless you need the diskspace (about 5.8gb) for 6.3.

Isn't it just 4-5 GiB? Without applying the Compilation or UIOP, that is

UIOP currently makes the game ~200 MiB bigger, due to some of the images being 32-bit instead of 24-bit. The Compilation adds 100-200 MiB. Not sure how much it adds after including TC, though. Might not have increased SS6.3 by much, since it mostly overwrites existing textures.

**bɑne** · September 30, 2010, 07:33 AM

Originally Posted by Meneth

Isn't it just 4-5 GiB?

I got 5,73 GB currently, thats without saves but I believe with the latest fixes.

**bɑne** · September 29, 2010, 05:27 AM

AI question aside peace shouldn't last. (Local) Military superiority should tip the scales back to war.

**HolyDevil** · September 29, 2010, 07:39 AM

I'd say its the calm before the storm, as you said, it will, eventually be WW0.5 soon enough, this is, afterall, TOTAL WAR xD, so they will eventually get greedy for settlements, unless you actually managed so ALL of them have their campaing goals complete, wich i doubt, even if so, they would eventually start a war, and drag their allies in it

**HolyDevil** · September 29, 2010, 12:46 PM

I must admit it has to be quite a diplomatic challenge, since the game mechanics were designed for war, peace, backstab, only xD, so i guess u could enjoy a little of it, see how much u can keep it up, if ur enjoying it

**Fakir** · September 29, 2010, 01:43 PM

Originally Posted by Spartan90

World War 0.5

**me_hungarian** · September 29, 2010, 05:09 PM

i have had something happen to me as Norway, once the HRE was gone, it was peace for ever(30 or more turns). I think i had to piss people off and pay off the pope to have a war even start, tho once it started it hasn't stoped. I killed the poles, and denmark has declared war on me only to become ex'ed so they are next lol.

**sbroadbent** · September 29, 2010, 08:13 PM

Compared to the AI in later versions, the 6.1 AI is rather docile. You can easily get 10-12 alliances, and very easily have a Very Reliable Reputation, with few of them breaking down. You can give minor gifts of tribute (say 100 florins for 10 turns) and boost your relations.

You get the typical skirmishes between certain factions, but otherwise you don't have the entire world going to war. As the HRE, you don't have every neighbor gang bang you 15-20 turns in on VH/VH.

In 6.2 (Gracul AI) TOTAL war starts around turn 15-20. The intention was to not make it easy on the player at VH difficulty. You're lucky if you can get a handful of alliances, and if you're ever at peace at any point (or have less than 4 enemies), the AI will randomly do port blockades (with no further military assaults) to ensure you have 4-6 enemies. Your reputation will sink like a stone, and if you're really unlucky, you will have 5 factions coming at you from every direction with anywhere from 2-3 settlements sieged a turn. In 6.2 relations between most factions tend to be rather poor, and it takes sizable donations to have much impact on your relations. If you want to get an AI faction to ceasefire, you have to literally take a minimum of 2-3 settlements, have a clear advantage over them and destroy several stacks worth of troops before the faction is willing to back down. If you just try to defend and tell them to go away, they will continue until you are destroyed.

The only option in 6.2 VH is to make friends with factions you know will stay friendly and hope that your alliance block holds, otherwise you will have to start choosing between allies.

I wouldn't expect anything ground shaking to occur in 6.1.

**Spartan90** · September 29, 2010, 09:35 PM

Wow, seems to be a huge difference in the versions. I'll be doing the big jump between 6.1 and 6.3 in the upcoming weeks. But I've played VH HRE quite often, and I usually have a five-front war going on. This time though, everyone is pleased as punch to just sit back, consolidate their economy, and take their place in this huge Western Europe alliance bloc with my empire at the forefront. I'm kind of pleased that with a micro-managing diplomacy, I've been able to pretty much puppeteer the Western world.