holocaust

[Magister Militum Flavius Aetius]

Me and one of my colleagues were debating this...

How many jews died in the holocaust?
She said 6 million and I said 14 million. I was tought (and i read it a couple times) 14 million.
Answers? and sources?

EDIT: Just to let you know i am not an anti semitist - i have a friend who's jewish.

[hellheaven1987]

Roughly six millions, since there were about eight to ten millions Jews under Axis controlled territories.

Holocaust, however, did not mean only the massacre of Jews.

[Magister Militum Flavius Aetius]

I know that. But the Russians slaughtered jews in the holocaust too. and there were 9 million jews in axis territorries. I saw 5 million 8oo something thousand or something like that on wikipedia

so if you include the russian slaughter (which had a much larger jewish population) it would be about 14 mil, wouldn't it?

[Davebob]

Always thought the six million figuire was exagerated.

[Magister Militum Flavius Aetius]

no it's not - there were 14 million jews killed, not 6 - the holocaust wasn't only the nazis there were a lot of soviet allied and the USSR itslef that killed jews in the holocaust too - i know a lady who survived the holocaust after living in a USSR concentration camp in siberia

[hellheaven1987]

Holocaust is exclusively about German's action of genocide under Nazis and that term only means for that. Now, if you can find evidences that Soviet and Nazi secretly had agreement to slaughter Jews together...

[Magister Militum Flavius Aetius]

Oh yeah - everyone knows they did - the division of poland between the two in 1939 made them kinda have too - i know this because the lady i know LIVED in poland - i've talked to her and read her book

[hellheaven1987]

Oh yeah - everyone knows they did - the division of poland between the two in 1939 made them kinda have too - i know this because the lady i know LIVED in poland - i've talked to her and read her book

If Mussolini had gut to tell Hitler not touch Jews in Italy, I doubt Stalin would want to play little extermination game with Hitler.

[Magister Militum Flavius Aetius]

well stalin didn't like jews either - they were generally against socialism and communism. they were killing jews in kazakstan and ubekizstan and other places too.

[Visna]

Me and one of my colleagues were debating this...

How many jews died in the holocaust?
She said 6 million and I said 14 million. I was tought (and i read it a couple times) 14 million.
Answers? and sources?

EDIT: Just to let you know i am not an anti semitist - i have a friend who's jewish.

Some 5.7 million. Sources are at the bottom.
The Holocaust didn't just include Jews, but the murder of many other groups of "undesirables". Depending on which groups you include in the equation 14 million seems like a reasonable number, perhaps that's what got you confused?

[Magister Militum Flavius Aetius]

that's not it at all Visna - that's the number of jews killed in europe but you must also include the population in egypt, and in russia, and in USSR territories like the stans...

they estimate 11-17 million undesireables were killed in europe - but the holocaust wasn't just in europe

[Visna]

that's not it at all Visna - that's the number of jews killed in europe but you must also include the population in egypt, and in russia, and in USSR territories like the stans...

they estimate 11-17 million undesireables were killed in europe - but the holocaust wasn't just in europe

There were "only" some 9 million Jews living in areas of Europe under Axis occupation, and the Holocaust is exclusively about Axis crimes. Whether or not Stalin had a thing for Jews as well is irrelevant in that picture. (Note: he didn't, his "thing" was about power, not 'racial purity'.)

[Magister Militum Flavius Aetius]

i know that - i said that jews were generally against comunism (politically) and could present a threat to his control. it had nothing to do with antisemitist beliefs with stalin.

Thanks I understand - I was using holocaust to describe jews killed throughout the old world not just nazi-controlled territory. Thanks

[♔Goodguy1066♔]

i know that - i said that jews were generally against comunism (politically) and could present a threat to his control.

Wierd, I though Karl Marx was a Jew and Jews were some of the most enthusiastic communists in Russia and Europe.
A for the number of Jews exterminated in the Holocaust, estimates range from 5 million to 7 million. That's the reason the number 6 million is usually cited, as a compromise between the estimates.

[Spartan90]

Wow, this is definitely the first I've heard of mass extermination of Jews when it's not regarding the Axis-only Holocaust (I was also under the impression that the est. 6mil also included the other "undesirables", not just the Jewish population). Shows how ignorant I am...

My question is, if the Allied powers killed just as many Jews in their own homelands (OP said est. 14mil), why isn't this as known as the Holocaust? I mean, it's just as destructive as what the Nazis did, yet I bet the majority of people never knew about it, much like myself..

[Orko]

6 mio Jews + 5 mio other "Untermenschen"

[Dolgorukiy]

Me and one of my colleagues were debating this...

How many jews died in the holocaust?
She said 6 million and I said 14 million. I was tought (and i read it a couple times) 14 million.
Answers? and sources?

EDIT: Just to let you know i am not an anti semitist - i have a friend who's jewish.

no it's not - there were 14 million jews killed, not 6 - the holocaust wasn't only the nazis there were a lot of soviet allied and the USSR itslef that killed jews in the holocaust too - i know a lady who survived the holocaust after living in a USSR concentration camp in siberia

Sorry but that's just nonsense, there wasn't any particular persecution of Jews in the USSR, and certainly nothing in the scale of the Nazi holocaust. In fact as Goodguy pointed out earlier, Jews made up the main body of the communist revolutionary movement and its bolshevik fraction. Stalin wasn't really fond of Jews but this particular paranoia of his came into effect only later in his life - after the war (as exemplified in the doctors' plot).

Lots of Jews from the Soviet occupied part of Poland were sent to various prison camps all through the USSR but that treatment wasn't in anyway exclusive to Jews, some ethnic Poles were treated the same way and at times, worse (compare - the whole Katyn incident, it might be said that the lady you know got the better part of the deal).

[Valandur]

Around 1/3 of the Jewish Population in Europe and Russia was wiped out, but the Holocaust also included Slavs, Gypsies, Homosexuals and Cripples.

[Magister Militum Flavius Aetius]

i think it may depend on the country. i may have gotten that confused.

And yes the USSR DID persecute jews.

[Magister Militum Flavius Aetius]

i know that - this thread is starting to degrade. Close this.