Changing Motte and baily for Stone fort?

[makanyane]

looks right to me - what happens when you try that?

[Eothese]

CTD after partial loading of battlemap from campaign screen.

The log seems to show that all the relevent world type files have been loaded, successfully or not idk.
The last log entries are the loading of globallighting and banners...
As the game loads correctly for every other settlement type I'm completely lost now.

[makanyane]

Am a bit lost too, as it works for me, I don't know what to test to discover cause of your problem...

you said

Stone fort a is the buildable fort for SE on the campaign map

have you had working battles at those forts?

if you've confirmed that works maybe try changing initially the experiment to use stone fort a - as then at least you'd know that base files are all there and should load assuming the pkg etc is correct.... if that works and d / mine (which was based on b) doesn't then we can narrow that down


if stone_fort_a still doesn't work for the SE / teutonic / motte and bailey, then try changing some of those variables, eg a different faction or settlement level

[Eothese]

Yep, I have had working battles at the stone_fort_a loactions as buildable. Taking your advice and using stone_fort_a for testing.
Incidentally stone_fort_b has now become the buildable fort and is wooden on the battlemap, changing the culture to SE and variant from stone_fort_b to default_fort puts it back to stone. If only the motte was so easy.

Using the stone_fort_a for the motte I'm back in the old position of CTD with a faction variant, or default motte without the faction variant.

Keeping an eye on the log, when I get a CTD, the last line is spear.mesh
When the default motte loads, the line after the main_spear.mesh is config_ai_battle.xml...
I'm using the vanilla file... but there aren't any more of these in any of the expansions. I dont suppose your is custom written?

On with more testing variables, will try another faction then another settlement type/level.

Reduced the number of SE cultures to 3 made stone_fort's b,c and d type wooden_castles for these factions and SE culture. Still getting a CTD in the same place. Now also using the battle_config.xml from british_isles.

I succeded in changing the tc_stone_keep_a to a motte, simply by changing the culture to SE and the type to wooden_castle.

[makanyane]

I'm using the vanilla file... but there aren't any more of these in any of the expansions. I dont suppose your is custom written?

Nope the version I tested it in yesterday, didn't have one in mod-folder - so was using packed vanilla version..

...is still not making any sense really - if you can get a battlemap working with the forts as forts, then can't see why it won't work as settlement. From our testing they're interchangeable - anything with plaza and deployment outline should load as settlement. The only thing (most) settlements have and forts don't is the Techtree slots but that hasn't made a difference when I've tried it - you just don't get barracks etc turning up....

I succeded in changing the tc_stone_keep_a to a motte, simply by changing the culture to SE and the type to wooden_castle.

sorry just spotted that bit.... OK even more confused....

[makanyane]

(Ah was confusing stone_keep and stone fort...)

going back to the idea that it might be the pkgdesc that's the problem still have you tried it with pkg like the tc_stone_keep_a one?

the relevant difference between that and stone_fort_a (and my fort) looks like the tc one has
fortification none
and
variant none


I'd not found any effect from the fortification level line so far - but I do have a custom EDB which nerfed a lot of the upgrades, so that might be making a difference.

[Eothese]

Yes, I've tried it with fortification none, with variant none, variant as own name, variant wooden_castle. The last one it accepted as in it didn't CTD on launching. But still no luck on the battlemap.

Maybe a none relevant question, but whats the difference between using caps and lower case in these files? The hex values are different. I've kept to the same format as the file I'm cloning.

Well after another 8 hours the only settlement I got to work in place of the SE motte was the tc_stone_keep_a, if it wasn't for the fact that makanyane got the stone_fort_d to work in about 2 mins, I'd say it was down to the settlement plan size...

After 5 full days on this I'm all out of idea's now, so unless someone can offer another suggestion, it's going to be canned.
Mant thanks to those who tried to help.

[Mythic_Commodore]

I've just tried a bunch of different configurations with the file, and I can't get SE Motte and Bailey to load as anything other than...well...a motte and bailey. Anything else gives me a crash. This leads me to believe that my tutorial is faulty/missing something. I've gotten this to work before, and I'm going to try a few more times, but don't get your hopes up. This is definitely the hardest thing to do in Medieval II. Sorry I couldn't help.

[Eothese]

No problem Mythic, I know its been a pain and what sucks the most is that makanyane got it working so easily, it just make no sense.

[Ishan]

and what sucks the most is that makanyane got it working so easily, it just make no sense.

Lol so True.
I think the Medieval 2 engine hates us or something.
I mean it works for Joan of Arc but why not for a peasant like me.

[makanyane]

you may / may not be pleased to know - I've tried testing this in 'vanilla' british isles mod - instead of pkh and got the CTD (made scotland, southern european and tried calling stone_fort_d via faction specific pkg)


so now I get to go and figure out why it's different in our mod..... eeek!

[Ishan]

so now I get to go and figure out why it's different in our mod..... eeek!

Joan u are not telling us the secret.
Then i presume it has to be something in the main files that are inside the data folder like descr_walls.txt or something.

And what are those debugdata files for them in the blockset folder?
I mean in the british_isles folder they are there for a,b,c but not for stone_fort_d so i thought they are irrelevant.

And u may not remember our conversation when u helped me here. And it happened to me as well i was trying this for eastern_european culture as a whole then i came out to knew that in it we have to use northern_european and faction specific pkg file to get we want.

But in this case if change culture to south one then BAM CTD. and if i make north_euro culture in it and use Milan in it(pkg file) then i see no change and get the default one.

[Eothese]

you may / may not be pleased to know - I've tried testing this in 'vanilla' british isles mod - instead of pkh and got the CTD (made scotland, southern european and tried calling stone_fort_d via faction specific pkg)


so now I get to go and figure out why it's different in our mod..... eeek!

I'm certainly not pleased, just very relieved its not something I'm doing wrong. If you can't figure it out, then I'm not sure who can. I'd be willing to help 'sift' if you want any help.

#Ishan,
One thing I did discover with all this testing is that eastern european seem to use north european culture buildings and greek the south european. Also if you change the path in the packagedb, as I did to new_settlements, the game reads this file from both the modfolder and the vanilla one parsing from both folders. My instinct is that this file isn't required in the modfolder and after so much trouble, could it even be a cause?

[makanyane]

uuurgghhh - turns out to be a definite moment.

descr_walls.txt
(good idea Ishan)

motte and bailey level in vanilla is at level that only requires ram to be built eg:

wall
{
	level 0
	siege_tower_size too_small

pkh's is switched to

wall
{
	level 0
	siege_tower_size small

eg besieging it requires ladders / small towers....

that is what makes it work in mine... even if you just assault the stone_fort with Trebuchet's and don't build siege equipment, the mismatch in it's expected siege type is what's causing the crash.


That will by the way lead you on to the other problem that I've never managed to resolve - that you can't set the siege_tower height individually by culture - or seperately for castle / town line....

so if you swap that for the motte_and_bailey level it'll apply to both Town and Motte..... if anyone can figure out a way out of that one I'd be quite grateful!
EDIT: actually just going to double check if you can do it by culture - RTW had line for it...
EDIT2: nope - at least culture line in same position as RTW doesn't work =

21:53:47.890 [script.err] [error] Script Error in mods\british_isles/data/descr_walls.txt, at line 79, column 5
Expected level, found culture

[Eothese]

Right, thank you.
I will try and get my settelment change in then have a look at the new problem. You have been a life saver on this.

[Ishan]

I don't why i consider myself as a noobest modder, am i all i told u makanyane is hiding a secret.

But jokes aside i appreciate her valuable input and most of all the time spent in our problem(yes Eothese i'm in the loop too).
+rep to both of you, it has been a real eyeopener.

Eothese i presume u will upload the files if it works 100% or should i also test it on my PC also?

[Eothese]

I'll get to trying this after work, I'm going to push my luck and try for 3 different types in 3 types of enviroment. Then I'll see if there's anything can be done around the next problem makanyane describes with seige towers for towns.

Still just getting a CTD with the changed line in descr_walls
Also tried with changing the wall level of motte in EDB to 3, which would stop the problem of being able to build towers for towns.

#
Makanyane, any changes or additions to descr_campaign_db.xml?

      <siege_gear_required_for_city_level string="huge_city"/>
      <siege_gear_required_for_castle_level string="moat_and_bailey"/>
      <no_towers_only_for_city_level string="huge_city"/>
      <no_towers_only_for_castle_level string="moat_and_bailey"/>

I remember seeing wolfslayer posted something about this file...

#Edit
I can't get this to work in my current mod, in Expanded Americas or british_isles...

#Makanyane, if you got this working in british_isles mod. Could you upload the files you added/changed? I can't think of another way that I can 'see' what you've done, because I'm obviously missing something.

[makanyane]

Attached my BritishIsles bat and config - descr_walls / sm_factions (changing scotland to SE) and the pkg which I just put in settlements...

otherwise my British Isles should be vanilla - only other alterations would be if I forgot to change something back after testing - but it all looks like original dates

tested in unpacked british_isles folder

DELETED MAP RWM FROM BASE FOLDER (due to sm_factions change)

started new Britannia campaign (as Scotland) - took first 8 units from Perth and attacked the rebel settlement at Inverlochy which is a Motte with Scotland as faction creator - have tried as direct assault using the trebuchets and waiting to build seige weapons - both worked and came up with stone fort D


Uploaded with ImageShack.us

try that and let me know if it works or not..... then we can play spot the difference again....

[Eothese]

Ok, well... That actually worked! Added your files and followed your steps on the campaign in brittania and it worked first time. Now to try and get this across into my own mod.

Got it to work in my mod, finally. It looks like there are a few more changes in the descr_wall you uploaded. Both the wooden wall types have had the flammabilty swapped to none, and gatehouse entries added which adds the oil.

It looks like it was the gatehouse info that was required, you can leave the flamability info and the siege_tower_size as they are, leaving towns ok. It's a shame that the game won't take any notice of a change to the wall_level in EDB because in there you could set that wall_level differently per culture or faction.

Anyway, thank you Makanyane and everyone else who helped with this. Its been one of the most frustrating times and also one of the most rewarding, definitely one of the biggest obstacles since the wardogs.

[Mythic_Commodore]

Glad to hear you got it working, Eothese! And that's exactly how I'd describe settlement modding - incredibly frustrating and rewarding. By the way, thanks makanyane for shedding some light on how the files worked - I learned a lot from your last few posts. +rep