What does "multicultural" mean anyway?

[removeduser_4536284751384]

Shouldn't it be "multiethnic" or something like that?

Surely noone is for having different cultures in a single society?

[Copperknickers II]

Of course they are, many societies have multiple cultures, its a mark of civilisation.

[Von Stein]

Of course they are, many societies have multiple cultures, its a mark of civilisation.

Paris, France







London, UK

Does this look like a mark of civilisation? I think not.

[Manco]

Does this look like a mark of civilisation? I think not.

Those people are not proponents of multiculturalism, they are rather striving for a new monoculture based on their own system of beliefs.
The only fault of multiculturalism in these instances, is that it has made it easier for such people to enter a country. Ideologically however, those protesters and what not are much closer to the multicul haters than with those who support it.

Oh, and the French rioters? Not just Maghrebin youngsters, there were more than enough disenfranchised white Frenchmen among them.

[MentshmitT]

If you define culture over the cusine, then a multitude of cultures may be the norm for most of us. You are, what you eat.

[skag]

Does this look like a mark of civilisation? I think not.

indeed
obligating people to pray in street without appropriate cult buildings is very big sign of retardantism

[Copperknickers II]

Paris, France






London, UK

Does this look like a mark of civilisation? I think not.

[/CENTER]

Racists, they are uncivilised savages I agree. Lucky they only make up a small proportion of both immigrants and natives.

[removeduser_4536284751384]

There is nothing wrong with multiculturalism, in today's society it is inevitable. Neo-Nazis and racist biggots use it as an excuse to mount their opinions of hate and intolerance, by disguising themselves as just caring about the white race. What a load of trash.

culture has little to do with the social construct of "race"

Of course they are, many societies have multiple cultures, its a mark of civilisation.

actually it isn't

society is divded far more by economic factors than "race" or religion. And at the lowest end of the scale is ghetto culture where education is frowned upon and eveyrone has been in jail a few times.

different cultures causes division.

[cenkiss]

Shouldn't it be "multiethnic" or something like that?

Surely noone is for having different cultures in a single society?

Same ethnic people can have different cultures.Just think about your won country.Is it same everywhere?

[Baron Thunder-ten-tronckh]

A truly multicultural society would be enviable. It would ideally, through exposure to other cultural ideologies, break down the dogmaticised doctrines of the 'host' country.

However it appears obvious that multiculturalism either may not be possible, could take a long time, or only lasts a short time (depending on whether you see society progressing or degenerating) and that in its place is a fragmented country where tolerance is hard and harmony between cultures just a dream. I don't know whether I'd call Australia - or I suppose Britain (never having been to the place I'm just guessing) - a multicultural country. On the fringes, sure, its acceptable for ethnicities to intermarry, but I see a lot of subconscious segregation. For instance, I've noticed the Asians, in cities, conglomerate together - even in schools. That could be indicative of elitism, or subserviency, or just an instance where two cultures are having trouble finding common ground.

[Basil II the B.S]

Multiculturalism is the acceptance or promotion of multiple ethnic cultures, applied to the demographic make-up of a specific place, usually at the organizational level, e.g. schools, businesses, neighborhoods, cities or nations. In this context, multiculturalists advocate extending equitable status to distinct ethnic and religious groups without promoting any specific ethnic, religious, and/or cultural community values as central.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiculturalism

The bolded part is the reason I oppose multiculturalism, and also the reason no multicultural society actually exists.

[Strelok]

The bolded part is the reason I oppose multiculturalism, and also the reason no multicultural society actually exists.

A sort of intersubjective 'central' value that may be adhered to does not equate to promotion of a central dogma. Our multicultural societies would be more of the former in my opinion.

[Basil II the B.S]

A sort of intersubjective 'central' value that may be adhered to does not equate to promotion of a central dogma.

Too vague. Expand?

Our multicultural societies would be more of the former in my opinion.

Except for the fact there is no such a thing as multicultural society by the sociological definition widely accepted that I posted.
Countries like the UK, USA, Australia and so on, as much as multiculturalists would love to call them ''multicultural'', have their own central values which are not interchangeable with anything else.

It's not about dogmas, it's about pillars. Take them away from a society and the society dies.

[Strelok]

Except for the fact there is no such a thing as multicultural society by the sociological definition widely accepted that I posted.

We don't really have a central authority that proposes a standard, do we? Like I said, it's more like an intersubjective adherence.

And where on this planet you find such society?

You attempt to start one if a person is so inclined.

So people are no longer supposed to take pride and joy from their own cultural heritage but toss it away?

I never proposed this and what I proposed wouldn't take pride and joy away from their cultural values. There just wouldn't be active promotion of a singular value. You just find it yourself within people who identify with you in the society. It doesn't necessarily have to be actively promoted to have the sense of belonging to a certain culture.

Read any thread, newspaper or television program where immigration critical views are established and you will see multiculturalists attack ad hominem their opponents with insults which I listed.[/quote]This once again barely establishes anything and is purely a form of anecdotal evidence.

n fact, the very post I quoted started such namecalling immediately. You yourself in your first paragraph described people who do not embrace foreign/alien cultural tradition in very unfavorable choises of words.

Unfavorable according to you apparently. I made no active distinction or insult towards people who believe others. Unless of course you're talking about my comment on people who teach that their values are ultimately superior. This is different than people who disagree with multiculturalism.

Read Bowling alone. Book which dealt with study on how multicultural societies turned out to be ones where there was steady decline in trust in one another and also in official authorities.

More direct citations or explanation of how this study was reliable or not would be appreciated.

And result is fractured society where there is no unity.

You're making an arbitrary leap from non-unity to fractured.

Instead it has plethora of minor cores for each small group who have ever radically different perception on world. Leading to situation where instead of unified front it presents bickering and divided one.

Divided on a specific issue but this does not necessarily hinder their ability to function together.

[Basil II the B.S]

We don't really have a central authority that proposes a standard, do we? Like I said, it's more like an intersubjective adherence.

It's not about some sort of ''standard'', it's about the pillars of society.

[Tiwaz]

You attempt to start one if a person is so inclined.

I'm not the one proposing multiculturalism as functional system.

I never proposed this and what I proposed wouldn't take pride and joy away from their cultural values. There just wouldn't be active promotion of a singular value. You just find it yourself within people who identify with you in the society. It doesn't necessarily have to be actively promoted to have the sense of belonging to a certain culture.

And how you will create nation/society/community without unity established by common values?
Your idea is unrealistic and poorly thought out. How does community form if it has no binding principles but everyone out for themselves?

This once again barely establishes anything and is purely a form of anecdotal evidence.

It is perfectly valid evidence of trend within multiculturalists. You just try to insist it is not because it proves that multiculturalists are the most narrow minded group in the "discussion".

Unfavorable according to you apparently. I made no active distinction or insult towards people who believe others. Unless of course you're talking about my comment on people who teach that their values are ultimately superior. This is different than people who disagree with multiculturalism.

Name existing cultural group which thinks it's values are inferior to those around them.

More direct citations or explanation of how this study was reliable or not would be appreciated.

Google it. It is valid research and familiarizing yourself with it would be smart.
http://www.bowlingalone.com/
http://www.bowlingalone.com/data.htm

Putnam believes that USA, source for study material, can rebuilt itself. Myself I am less inclined to believe so. Because first whole idea of multiculturalism would have to be abandoned and unifying American culture rebuilt pretty much from scratch.

Once community cohesion has fallen, it is far more difficult to build it than it was to dismantle.

You're making an arbitrary leap from non-unity to fractured.

No, non-united is fractured. It is cliqued into small groups which may or may not have uniting attributes with other cliques, but issue remains that there will still be more groups with whom any given group does NOT share core values. Thus, cooperation between such groups is extremely difficult if possible at all.

Enmity towards people who act/think wrong will cause problems in such non-unified society, thus fractured society.

It is same as taking one big field and bringing in football team and american football team and saying "play".

Lack of common ground would doom any attempt of running meaningful game.

Divided on a specific issue but this does not necessarily hinder their ability to function together.

Yes it does. Modern country is massive collection of people. It is shared culture which made it possible, and it is lack of shared culture which breaks them into smaller pieces which compete and argue with one another. Specific issues touching core cultural issues will surface sooner or later in multicultural society and cause disfunction of different groups.

Take female circumcision, for purpose of this thought exercise assume it is NOT illegal in given country. One group sees it as absolute act of barbarism. Other one sees it as essential part of culture and morality (it is very difficult in certain societies for uncut female to find husband).

How can those groups ever see face to face? They can't. Both groups upon looking at other will see immoral people with disgusting habits.
And in cases where there are radical differences it rarely is just one thing which is in conflict.


Multicultural society in principle can work if cultures which form it are very, very similar. If they are completely different they are more likely to fail than succeed. But not necessarily even similar culture will work.

Look at Belgium. Those guys have had ages to get their act together and make perfect multicultural utopia. And where are they?

[Oldgamer]

Multiculturalism is the acceptance or promotion of multiple ethnic cultures, applied to the demographic make-up of a specific place, usually at the organizational level, e.g. schools, businesses, neighborhoods, cities or nations. In this context, multiculturalists advocate extending equitable status to distinct ethnic and religious groups without promoting any specific ethnic, religious, and/or cultural community values as central.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiculturalism

The bolded part is the reason I oppose multiculturalism, and also the reason no multicultural society actually exists.

I agree with you.

In the United States, "multiculturalism" is the replacement for "pluralism". Pluralism allowed for people to live in the nation, enjoy their own culture and languages in their neighborhoods and homes, but assimililate into the overall culture, observing the language of the nation, and respect the nation's borders.

Multiculturalism and the emphasis on "diversity" is merely an excuse for some groups ... political and otherwise ... to de-emphasize American culture. Especially in the area of politics, it is a means of splitting groups off from the rest of the population, and making them dependent upon the political party.

[Basil II the B.S]

I agree with you.

In the United States, "multiculturalism" is the replacement for "pluralism". Pluralism allowed for people to live in the nation, enjoy their own culture and languages in their neighborhoods and homes, but assimililate into the overall culture, observing the language of the nation, and respect the nation's borders.

Multiculturalism and the emphasis on "diversity" is merely an excuse for some groups ... political and otherwise ... to de-emphasize American culture. Especially in the area of politics, it is a means of splitting groups off from the rest of the population, and making them dependent upon the political party.

Exactly my point.
The fact is, that many multiculturalism supporters often do not know what actually multiculturalism is all about, and most of the time confuse it with cultural pluralism.
Then call those who oppose them ''ignorant'' and come out with example such as ''multiculturalism is awesome because I can eat kebab and drive German cars''.

[redhammer]

Obvious visible evidence of multiculturalism is seeing temples of different religions and town halls of different ethnicities in a city. Less visible evidence is people who speak a different language at home or are part of groups who take part in cultural and/or religious ceremonies different from those of another group. Therefore, multiculturalism can and does exist in the modern world.

@Basil II the B.S. I didn't quite understand your post. Are you saying that you oppose multiculturalism because multiculturalism promotes no single dominant religion or ethnicity?

[Basil II the B.S]

@Basil II the B.S. I didn't quite understand your post. Are you saying that you oppose multiculturalism because multiculturalism promotes no single dominant religion or ethnicity?

No, because it refuses the centrality of certain cultural values, which is a completely different thing.
Example: pretty much any western country is built on the central values of democracy, secularism and so on, which are products of the western culture. Multiculturalism doesn't allow such a thing. Since every culture is equal/equivalent, so are their values, and therefore, Sharia, or the commandments of the Emperor Sky Dragon of Absurdistan are interchangeable with Western values in a truly multicultural society. No thanks is my answer.