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  1. #1
    RollingWave's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default purposal: Moorish (and others) roster adjustment project

    There have long been complaints and discussion that the Moorish roster is messed up in many ways, but so far little have been done to address it, I plan on doing some editing to present a more reasonable representation of the Moorish faction, and will probably spill over to some other faction as well, (namely the other islamic factions, though the Moors will be the priority)


    I have no skill as a moddler and I'm only going to do things that can be accomplished VIA the export_descr_building and export_descr_units.

    As of now, I'm going to do this with the idea that it's going to be early era based.

    General purposal so far, what I plan to get done before this weekend is done:

    Arab cavalry : move back to race track, adjust stats (lower cost / build time, slightly lower stats, slightly higher upkeep to keep it fair) for all muslim factions, these unit basically represent the wealthier citizens of the Muslim world anyway, they are basically the equivalent of the muslim milita cavalry / mercant cavalry anyway, I wonder why this was messed around. (already done in test version)


    Granadine Jinet : bulk up stats, (mostly defense and moral / dicipline). and bulk up cost. the later versions of the Granadine jinets were actually fairly elite units amoung the Granadine forces, even pretty close to the knights equivalent , so it's a joke that they were given the same stats as regular jinets AND is a higher on the tech tree with less discipline(!!) . suggest to up armour and defense a bit so the become more useful in melee (and/or survive poundings better) with significantly better morals so that they actually become different than the Jinets.

    Berber spearman : replaces Nubian spearman on the tech tree spot, Berber spearmans were by far the most common and important units of the Almoravid and Almohads, when the Moors were actually true powers, right now it's a joke that they're pure local units and the much more rare black slave soliders are somehow super abundent.

    Andalusian infantry : funny that this unit have been around forever and most other mods that have it put them in the Moors roster, but not SS. move to higher level city roster.

    Plan on sharing some of the militas between the Moors and Fatimids (namely the Moors get Halberd too and the Fatimid gets the axemans as well)

    Sudanese gunner : become a moorish unique unit, renamed black guard gunners . up stats significantly.

    -------------------------------------

    (Maybe will get done soon maybe not)

    For the Moor's feudal tech tree I suggest:

    (removing Faris, not historically realistic, it's basically a generic term for the Mamuleks or the Itaqars . since both already have far more specific representative why is it around? at least remove from moorish roster first.)

    1. Sanhaja warriors : basically the Lamtuna spearman, plan to bulk up their stats more (Sanhaja was the berber tribal confederation that the Lamtuna tribes belonged to, which made up of the primary members of the almoravid core).

    2. Almoravid retinues : I plan on moving the current merc unit bedouin cavalry to do this unit, since it's about the closest in representation that I can think of and it's a fairly unused merc anyway, essentially represent the Almoravid's elite force, a medium to heavish cavalry that relies more on speed than armour (but better armoured than the rest of the desert troops, maybe instill fear aspect as well since they were fairly barbaric even by Berber standards)

    3. Ghulams : although not a totally precise representation of the black guard units a lot of differnt Moorish rulers used (both Taifa / Almoravid / Almohad and others), it's about the closest thing around.


    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    (hoping to do , but not sure if it can be done properly)

    I plan on moving more units into the caravan buildings, so that it basically act like the Islamic mercenary building, currently planning on putting in Nubian spearman (might rename it ), Sudanese tribesman and javelin unit, and Akinjis for the Moors, hopefully with a different set for different muslim factions to better represent their core regions.


    It's just a preliminary idea of course, but at least I plan on doing the first part in the next couple of days.
    1180, an unprecedented period of peace and prosperity in East Asia, it's technology and wealth is the envy of the world. But soon conflict will engulf the entire region with great consequences and lasting effects for centuries to come, not just for this region, but the entire known world, when one man, one people, unites.....

  2. #2

    Default Re: purposal: Moorish (and others) roster adjustment project

    I'm looking forward to see how this work's out. I was allmost considering trying to do this myself but I'd probably have failed miserably as I wouldn't know where to start lol.

  3. #3
    RollingWave's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: purposal: Moorish (and others) roster adjustment project

    edit : nm for now
    1180, an unprecedented period of peace and prosperity in East Asia, it's technology and wealth is the envy of the world. But soon conflict will engulf the entire region with great consequences and lasting effects for centuries to come, not just for this region, but the entire known world, when one man, one people, unites.....

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    RollingWave's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: purposal: Moorish (and others) roster adjustment project

    what the hell? Berber spearmans aren't even in the game right now?????
    1180, an unprecedented period of peace and prosperity in East Asia, it's technology and wealth is the envy of the world. But soon conflict will engulf the entire region with great consequences and lasting effects for centuries to come, not just for this region, but the entire known world, when one man, one people, unites.....

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    RollingWave's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: purposal: Moorish (and others) roster adjustment project

    very early update on progress.

    changing arab cav stats and access in race tracks : done.

    changing Granadine jinet stats: done

    preliminary attempt to move lamtuna to fedual and change it's stats working.
    1180, an unprecedented period of peace and prosperity in East Asia, it's technology and wealth is the envy of the world. But soon conflict will engulf the entire region with great consequences and lasting effects for centuries to come, not just for this region, but the entire known world, when one man, one people, unites.....

  6. #6

    Default Re: purposal: Moorish (and others) roster adjustment project

    Looking forward to the changes!

  7. #7
    RollingWave's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: purposal: Moorish (and others) roster adjustment project

    a quick look

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Right now i have done...

    Moved Arab Cav back to race track, changed it's stats and description (basically more inlined with the Italian milita cav .)

    Buffed Granadine Jinet significantly (changed name to Andalusian cavalry), and made it more expensive as a result. (it is now basically the equivalent, if not somewhat better than, lithuanian noble sons.)

    Changed Lamtuna spearman's name to Sanhaja warriors: moved to fedual build tree, buffed stats a bit and made a bit more expensive.

    Moved the Merc Bedouin cav unit to the Moorish roster, dramatically buffed it's stats and changed it's name to Al-Murabitun cavalry, it represents the core chieftans of the Sanhaja tribes that was the ruling military elites of the Almoravid dynasty, the Bedouin cav is about as close a unit as I can think of in terms of model so that'll have to do unless someone want to model units . basically it has very high attack (on par with many of the better knights) not as much charge (reflect that they didn't use lance) fast, and additionally have the scare infantry trait, roughly a bit less expensive than F knights.


    I think I should be able to produce a working version soon enough that at least give the changes above along with a few more things that shouldn't be too hard (such as moving andalusian infantry to the build tree).

    The biggest problem I have right now is that I realize the Berber Spearman is gone from the roster(!!) and my attempts to reinstall it have failed miserablly so far, I'm asking Point Blank for some pointers on how to get it back, but all my attempts with the export_descr_unit and battle_models_modeldb have not produced any results. (other than an endless string of CTDs)
    1180, an unprecedented period of peace and prosperity in East Asia, it's technology and wealth is the envy of the world. But soon conflict will engulf the entire region with great consequences and lasting effects for centuries to come, not just for this region, but the entire known world, when one man, one people, unites.....

  8. #8
    RollingWave's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: purposal: Moorish (and others) roster adjustment project

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Basically, I nerfed both the Moorish axeman and Urban militia (both lighter armour now). but moved the axeman down a level (and cheaper + faster respawning) and the urbans now start from the start since it no longer start with heavy armour. also gave them the andalusian infantry in the cities, which is a somewhat expensive and slow replenishing but very solid spearman (basically a slightly better version of armoured sergents with a bit less moral).
    1180, an unprecedented period of peace and prosperity in East Asia, it's technology and wealth is the envy of the world. But soon conflict will engulf the entire region with great consequences and lasting effects for centuries to come, not just for this region, but the entire known world, when one man, one people, unites.....

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    RollingWave's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: purposal: Moorish (and others) roster adjustment project

    Alright, I came up with an half decent solution for the Berber speramens

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    I essentially kill two bird with one stone by simply making the Nubian spearman into the Desert Spearmen (but obviously now it starts at level 1 armour so it becomes hooded and hard to see it's black features.) which save me the trouble of needing to edit the building slots at the same time

    I plan on releasing a test run version in a few hours
    1180, an unprecedented period of peace and prosperity in East Asia, it's technology and wealth is the envy of the world. But soon conflict will engulf the entire region with great consequences and lasting effects for centuries to come, not just for this region, but the entire known world, when one man, one people, unites.....

  10. #10
    RollingWave's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: purposal: Moorish (and others) roster adjustment project

    also, I really love the BC's arabian cavalry model , espiecally the light version's shield, I'm thinking if I can try and combine the shield with a slightly heavier cav to turn into the Granadine lancers.
    1180, an unprecedented period of peace and prosperity in East Asia, it's technology and wealth is the envy of the world. But soon conflict will engulf the entire region with great consequences and lasting effects for centuries to come, not just for this region, but the entire known world, when one man, one people, unites.....

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