TROM2 - Feedback and Suggestions

[Surveyor K]

Great work with the new release! Is it just me or is the the trom2_extras.pack missing in the new 1.81 release?

[littleleo]

Hi all ...

I use TROM since the first on EMPIRE and i love it ... and now i stop to play Napoleon with NER mod and i try TROM 2. I like you'r mod philosophy but i have few suggestion after some hours of game :

1/ Artillery is ineffective and the canister shot is like send a bowl of rice ! In each battle they cannot stop an infantry charge (6 12 lb ... no serious casualty to infantry line !!!) I remember that is a same problem at the beginning on the first TROM. So can it be more effective ... ? Actually I do not use any more artillery because a full stack of infantry is more effective (cavalry is a less weak than i think they will ... but it's an other problem).

2/ Brit's are too concentrate on land army ! they can send full stack after full stack on the continent ! Or, we know that they can't match a continental army alone !!! I propose to increase a lot the unkeep cost of all British land unit.

3/ I thinking Napoleon army must be more oriented on light infantry unit ...

4/ the unit moral is too hight ! sometimes they continue to fight with only 20 or 30 !!! they must be rout when 1/3 or 1/2 of them are kill (my line infantry had 200 men and continue when they are only 34 of them !!!)

5/ I love, like for the TROM for Empire, the AOR system and the strategic gameplay.

Thanks to all TROM moders !

[Yarkis de Bodemloze]

I imagined all of the requisite units would have been available from the Napoleon campaign mode (the invasion of Italy, for example, and the Egyptian campaign). Maybe I'm wrong!

Only for some nations. For other big ones like Prussia, Russia, Britain, Spain you need custom made units.

Hi Mr Yarkis. First of all I would like to thank you for this mod, because I'm enjoying very much the economic changes that you did, it's really trying to simulate the difficulties that every nation had in that time, even more in an age of war.
Anyway, I don't know if it's a problem only with me, and if not this should be read like a sugestion: Could you take off the recrution capability of buildings like the theater, for example? I mean, there is a problem with this because even when you have a barracks which gives you the option to recruit more veteran units, you are only able to recruit the unit with the less level, since you have another building that gives you the ability to recruit the unit in question. For example: In Paris I can only recruit fusiliers of line with no level, even with the barracks giving the option to recruit a 1+ veteran fusilier of line. And this is because of the fusilier recruit capability of the theater.
I hope that you understand what I mean, and sorry about the english too...

Anyway, great job man, I'm looking forward for your upcoming versions!

I implemented the possibility to recruit a basic set of units in administration and cultural buildings to improve the CAI. In provinces with only one building slot in the main settlement and no garrisson building the CAI could only recruit militia. That low level buildings in the same settlement override the experience bonus given by higher level buildings is unfortunate, but a price I am willing to pay. Since one main goal of TROM2 is to provide a challenging gameplay, changes that improve the CAI take precedence over changes in favour of the player.

Great work with the new release! Is it just me or is the the trom2_extras.pack missing in the new 1.81 release?

Yeah, no new extra pack yet.

Hi all ...

I use TROM since the first on EMPIRE and i love it ... and now i stop to play Napoleon with NER mod and i try TROM 2. I like you'r mod philosophy but i have few suggestion after some hours of game :

1/ Artillery is ineffective and the canister shot is like send a bowl of rice ! In each battle they cannot stop an infantry charge (6 12 lb ... no serious casualty to infantry line !!!) I remember that is a same problem at the beginning on the first TROM. So can it be more effective ... ? Actually I do not use any more artillery because a full stack of infantry is more effective (cavalry is a less weak than i think they will ... but it's an other problem).

2/ Brit's are too concentrate on land army ! they can send full stack after full stack on the continent ! Or, we know that they can't match a continental army alone !!! I propose to increase a lot the unkeep cost of all British land unit.

3/ I thinking Napoleon army must be more oriented on light infantry unit ...

4/ the unit moral is too hight ! sometimes they continue to fight with only 20 or 30 !!! they must be rout when 1/3 or 1/2 of them are kill (my line infantry had 200 men and continue when they are only 34 of them !!!)

5/ I love, like for the TROM for Empire, the AOR system and the strategic gameplay.

Thanks to all TROM moders !

1. The cannister effectiveness was discussed before. Personally I think its quite right. Making it stronger will only make battles against the BAI easier, because the BAI tends to ignore the artillery. It's true that the artillery gets overran by fresh troops quite often, but that's fine. Otherwise you would have invincible lines by just using artillery.

EDIT: Manually aiming at the ground in front of a unit can increase canister effectiveness quite a bit. The auto targeting always aims at the end of a line.

2. Britain has the same upkeep costs as other nations. They still have less land units overall because they have to support their fleet. I like it that their are more active in the game now and the CAI can even send two invasions stacks in close succession. Historically they invaded the Netherlands and Denmark.

3. In 1.9 there will be a "special" light infantry unit for France and France has several AOR light infantry units. If the CAI recruits too little light infantry for France I can have a look at that.

4. If and when units rout depends on many factors like isolation, bonuses of generals, who is attacking whom, recent damage, and so on. I see units rout with much more then 40 men. Overall though I won't make units leave the map with not many caualities, because that makes battles much too easy and the campaign a cakewalk. Think of the battles you fight as parts of bigger engagements and you command the area where the heaviest fighting happens.

5. Thanks!

[littleleo]

Thanks to you Yarkis .. can you tell me how to do to make the canister more effective (what folder can i modifies ?)

I have a idea : if we increase the number of men in a troop (actually i multiply by 1,25 but 1,5 or 2 will be good) and we not change the number of artillery piece, we can do it more effective ... and artillery can take a little best part on the battlefield. Because is sad actually (artillery is one of the master piece of battlefield at this time or maybe) : if we have just infantry or cavalry i prefer play to TATW or ROME TW ... ? isn't it ?

After try to play British is too easy to win with us ... i think

[shane32ie]

Great mod and great work +rep.

Just wondering about spain, I was planing to play as them in a new campaign but they seem to have a very small unit roster, doing custom battles they have about 6 infantry units compared to the 10~12+ france,GB,ottomans have and so on.

Also is there any blood, and music sub mod i can use with this?

Thanks...

[hippacrocafish]

Excellent mod gentlemen!

My only suggestion would be to possibly add a campaign for one of the Italian cities, I know they were hardly large players in the Napoleonic wars but it would be fun to play Naples, Sicily, or even the Papal states. Personally I'd prefer Naples, it has a nice central starting position that will surely bring them into conflict with many factions making for a good challenge.

That is, of course, only a suggestion. I understand that you modders have a lot on your plate and not nearly enough time to do everything suggested to you. All the best for any future plans you might have.

[hippacrocafish]

Is it possible to make Venice actually emerge from liberating Venice instead of just Italy? I don't know why it would do that since Venice is already a faction in the Italian campaign. :/

[Serenissima]

I can't see it being a problem for Britain... but you're right about the others.

[cherryfunk]

I have to agree with hippa -- I'd love to see a Naples campaign -- it was an essential ally of Britain's and as a small state opposed to France, would make for one heck of a campaign. Also, it would be great if Venice could become it's own faction when liberated... two brilliant suggestions.

[raj100]

I have played a few battles with TROM. Much better than vanilla. My one complaint is that the Russian infantry is terribly over powered. I have tried battles of just Russian muskateers vs an army of cannons, horses, elite units and the russian line infantry wins every time.

[Yarkis de Bodemloze]

Hm, can't see how they are overpowered. They have -5 accuracy and -5 reload compared to standard line, so they are inferior in a firefight. To balance this out they have +1 in melee, defence and moral. If you play against the AI you will win because the AI does not know how to use its artillery and cavalry properly.

[raj100]

Hm, can't see how they are overpowered. They have -5 accuracy and -5 reload compared to standard line, so they are inferior in a firefight. To balance this out they have +1 in melee, defence and moral. If you play against the AI you will win because the AI does not know how to use its artillery and cavalry properly.

Hmmh I will have to try it out again.

[LordVaynard]

Can i mod TROM2 for my own use?

[Yarkis de Bodemloze]

Can i mod TROM2 for my own use?

For your own use of course. If you think, your modifications could interest other people, you can also present them as a submod.

[LordVaynard]

thanks a lot.

[Edax]

Anyway you could add the telescope animation back into TROMII?

Also, I've noticed that with ships of the line, with the moral maxed out, ships tend to explode from fires on deck, rather them sink from damage. Anyway you can VASTLY reduce the flamablilty of ships so that they can sink properly from crippled hulls?

Also, I think farms should have a higher replenishment/supply rate, considering that farms and their upgrades cost so much money.

[Pdguru]

All,

Today, Yarkis and I exchanged some thoughts on casualty rates. My observation was:

"On H/H and I am finding the casualty rates extremely high - units fighting to the last few men. The result is that most big battles result in such huge casualties that neither army is functional for months afterwards. ...Is that a deliberate feature?"

Yarkis observed that yes, it is a deliberate feature: The objective is to "prevent the player from dominating the game too quickly and getting one heroic victory after the other."

Soooooo...

I undertand this completely - the player can kick-ass if units rout easily because the relative tactical weakness of the AI (compared to the player) causes it to lose troops quickly... and therefore the armies rout before the AI really gets a chance to stand and fight.

This makes COMPLETE sense to me - it has indeed halted my progress early on although I am now also very susceptible to the AI armies who (especially the Austrians) have amassed a very large number of armies in the first year (they don't seem subject the cash restrictions at all!).

Another side effect however is that it makes even excellent tactical maneouvres by the player (such as timed flank attacks) inneffectual - the enemy remains unphased by flank and rear attacks, and easily beat off assualts by even the best cavalry. In short, I wonder if it makes any battles pointless until the player has built up huge armies (which is virtually impossible given the tight money in TROM2).

Is this a good thing?



Some suggestions at this point are to make wins possible without massive losses... if good tactics are used, i.e.

1. Significantly increase the negative morale effect of flank and rear attacks
2. Increase morale effect of being under artillery fire
3. Increase the effectiveness of cavalry (they kill more, faster)
4. Make changes so units so they fall back sooner, but have them rally more frequently
5. Increase the morale effect of friends fleeing - so if you can break several units, the others will be easier to break

I would also suggest that the armies "regenerate" a little more after each battle, but I gather this is not possible (it's hard coded).

Just some ideas.

Comments/input requested.

[Yarkis de Bodemloze]

Anyway you could add the telescope animation back into TROMII?

Also, I've noticed that with ships of the line, with the moral maxed out, ships tend to explode from fires on deck, rather them sink from damage. Anyway you can VASTLY reduce the flamablilty of ships so that they can sink properly from crippled hulls?

Also, I think farms should have a higher replenishment/supply rate, considering that farms and their upgrades cost so much money.

Hm, don't know about this telescope animation. Was it ever in? I did nopt remove anything.

I think I can reduce the explosion chance. Not shure about catching fire.

Farms also generate income. Their costs are based on the income they generate and is balanced against other buildings.


@Pdguru

I am really interested in feedback from more players. Personally I don't think that tactics don't matter, but there are no easy triggers like a cavalry attack from the flank will always succeed. It depends on the units and factions involved. Russian armies are more stubborn. Ottomans will run quicker. Moral bonuses by generals play a role, as well as bonuses of grenadiers and elite troops.

The AI has cash restrictions and the amount of armies they can have is finite. The AI can even go bankrupt if it fields large armies and you block their only trading port. Personally I can manage the larger number of CAI armies. I may loose a province or two at times but I get them back. Anyway I am interested in opinions and suggestions.

[Edax]

Hm, don't know about this telescope animation. Was it ever in? I did nopt remove anything.

I think I can reduce the explosion chance. Not shure about catching fire.

Farms also generate income. Their costs are based on the income they generate and is balanced against other buildings.


@Pdguru

I am really interested in feedback from more players. Personally I don't think that tactics don't matter, but there are no easy triggers like a cavalry attack from the flank will always succeed. It depends on the units and factions involved. Russian armies are more stubborn. Ottomans will run quicker. Moral bonuses by generals play a role, as well as bonuses of grenadiers and elite troops.

The AI has cash restrictions and the amount of armies they can have is finite. The AI can even go bankrupt if it fields large armies and you block their only trading port. Personally I can manage the larger number of CAI armies. I may loose a province or two at times but I get them back. Anyway I am interested in opinions and suggestions.

You had the telescopes in Empire. I've seen screenshots of them being used in Napoleon, but I don't know which mod allows it...Probably a sub-mod of All-In-One.

And the shipfires. BEYOND IRRITATING. My ships can spend 80% of a battle on fire...IN THE MIDDLE OF A RAINSTORM! They spend 80% of the time with fire-at-will off, which means that they should be combating to fire, which I can't tell if they are because the fire is so small it's not visable. Even so, being fire causes massive moral drop, and causes the ship to go up in flames RANDOMLY and at any second. The fires happen SO OFTEN, that I've seen only one 80 gun ship of the line sink, and about 40 ships explode from fires. Seriously, if this was realistic, Trafalgar would have been a navel disaster because Nelson would have lost his entire fleet to ship-fires before he'd even reach the Franco-Spanish line. I also note bitterly that the AI has no problems with fires. No matter how bad their on-board fire is, it always seem to die away eventually, even though they aren't halting fire, and getting shot at from all angles! If you could get rid of fire entirely, that would be a relief. Ships fires make navel combat even harder, as if one is on fire, you'll have to withdraw the ships from that line, and with the group pathfinding system, this would only cause the line to disintrate, and scatter to all points of the compass, all because a ship caught fire and had to stop. And because fires happen so often and so randomly, It just doesn't feel fun. No tactics are involved, no stratagy, doesn't even matter what ship you have. You could lose a First-Rate of the line to a merchent vessel just cause a 6 cannon broadside caused a fire!

Also, something to note in the campagin. After you win several navel engagements and control the seas, the AI stops building fleets entirely. I have never once deployed a steamship in the campagin because by then, there isn't anything left to fight on water. This is kind of a downer as you spend so much money building and maintaining a fleet, just to never be challenged on the water ever again.

[Spartan262]

Please make all factions playable in the next release it would make me one happy camper.