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  1. #1
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    Default The Highway of Death

    The Highway of death, the name given to a highway in the Gulf war which was bombed by Allied aircraft and resulted in the destruction of thousands of vechicles and is claimed to have taken thousands of lifes. It was one of the major reasons why the US stopped short of invading Iraq. The US military was afraid that if news were leaked of this incident they would lose the support of the population for the war. There were no reporters at the scene of the incident until a month later so what actually happened is sketchy at best. The US government and military claim that the "convoy" on the highway was comprised of Iraqi soldiers retreating from Kuwait, human rights groups and parts of the media on the other hand claim that although there were Iraqi military personal on the highway there were also alot of civilian refugees as well. And that the US military bombed the highway indiscrimately. And there is also controversy that the US bombed retreating Iraqi soldiers who posed no threat to the US, who would've surrendered.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiki, Highway of Death
    The Highway of Death refers to a road between Kuwait and Basra on which the retreating Iraqi army was attacked by aircraft during the Gulf War, on the night of February 26/27, 1991. Western news reports refer to the road as Highway 80, and it runs from Kuwait City to the border towns of Abdali (Kuwait) and Safwan (Iraq), and then on to Basra. The road was repaired during the late 1990s, and was used in the initial stages of the 2003 invasion of Iraq by US and British forces in order to invade Iraq.

    The offensive action for which the road is infamous became a controversial point, with some commentators alleging that the use of force was disproportionate, that the Iraqi forces were retreating, and that the column included many civilian refugees. Although no reporters were present during the action, and media accounts did not appear for almost a month, photographs taken afterwards showed dramatic scenes of burned and broken vehicles. Human rights groups cited the incident as a war crime of great magnitude — the deliberate bombing of a stretch of highway where fleeing Iraqi soldiers were stuck in a frenzied traffic jam. The United States, however, cited that few Iraqi soldiers were found in the wreckage.
    Quote Originally Posted by PhPWiki, Highway to Hell
    U.S. television tended to sanitize the pictures of the Highway of Death by removing troubling images of burned and mutilated bodies. Moreover, photographs of the episode were pulled from distribution to try to erase the memory of the unsavory episode. An image of an Iraqi soldier burnt to a crisp in the Desert Slaughter was published by the British Guardian on March 3 and created a great uproar...

    At the afternoon Pentagon briefing on March 1, Lt. Gen. Thomas Kelly said bluntly that the United States was not in the game of counting casualties and when pushed said that they had "killed an entire army." Details of the magnitude of the systematic annihilation of the Iraqis emerged, however, when reporters journeyed up the highway leading from Kuwait City to Iraq, and about twenty miles from the city found evidence of a tremendous slaughter of Iraqis who were fleeing from Kuwait. The first report on what became known as "the Highway of Death" was broadcast on CNN during the morning of March 1, which showed pictures of the road from Kuwait City to the Iraqi border. According to CNN correspondent Tom Mintier, video had just surfaced of a scene outside of Kuwait City depicting "vehicles who were going nowhere." The fleeing Iraqis took any vehicles that they could find to drive to Iraq and when they got outside of the city the allies put a pincer movement on them. They were hit by allied aircraft and artillery in place along the highway, producing a massive traffic jam and subsequent slaughter. The vehicles included civilian cars, buses, trucks, tanks, fire engines, and armored vehicles, some of which burned together as they caught fire and then exploded, producing a conflagration from which few, if any, escaped. There were hundreds of victims, Mintier reported, and charred bodies, burned beyond recognition, were evident inside and around the vehicles.

    The video showed pictures of a highway littered with civilian and military vehicles that had been destroyed in one of the most massive slaughters by air power in history. There were images of one vehicle after another, mile after mile, piled upon each other, evoking a picture of a giant traffic jam in which planes bombed and destroyed anything below themselves. Mintier stated that there may have been heavy civilian casualties, and it was not certain if the victims were Iraqis, their Kuwaiti hostages, or fleeing Palestinians.

    ...

    Mainstream newspapers tended to downplay the story. The March 2 New York Times inserted a couple of brief paragraphs concerning what was arguably one of the major stories of the war in the middle of an article by R. A. Apple, who tersely described the basic facts and, like the TV reporters, stressed the "looters" angle (p. 6A). The mainstream media in Britain, however, were more critical of the desert slaughter. A BBC report mentioned that the vehicles taken out of Kuwait City were mostly civilian vehicles and that there were very few tanks or artillery on the Highway of Death, raising the question whether the fleeing Iraqis with their hostages were a legitimate military target. The BBC's Stephen Sackur also discerned evidence of cluster bombs, antipersonnel weapons that are designed to break up into hundreds of little bomblets to maximize damage to both humans and machines. Sackur wrote: "It was the scale of the American attack that took my breath away. Was it necessary to bomb the entire convoy? What threat could these pathetic remnants of Saddam Hussein's beaten army have posed? Wasn't it obvious that the people of the convoy would have given themselves up willingly without the application of such ferocious weaponry?"
    Source

    Quote Originally Posted by A Report on United States War Crimes Against Iraq to the Commission of Inquiry for the International War Crimes Tribunal by Ramsey Clark and Others
    Incinerated body of an Iraqi soldier on the "Highway of Death," a name the press has given to the road from Mutlaa, Kuwait, to Basra, Iraq. U.S. planes immobilized the convoy by disabling vehicles at its front and rear, then bombing and straffing the resulting traffic jam for hours. More than 2,000 vehicles and tens of thousands of charred and dismembered bodies littered the sixty miles of highway. The clear rapid incineration of the human being [pictured above] suggests the use of napalm, phosphorus, or other incindiary bombs. These are anti-personnel weapons outlawed under the 1977 Geneva Protocols. This massive attack occurred after Saddam Hussein announced a complete troop withdrawl from Kuwait in compliance with UN Resolution 660. Such a massacre of withdrawing Iraqi soldiers violates the Geneva Convention of 1949, common article 3, which outlaws the killing of soldiers who "are out of combat." There are, in addition, strong indications that many of those killed were Palestinian and Kuwaiti civilians trying to escape the impending seige of Kuwait City and the return of Kuwaiti armed forces. No attempt was made by U.S. military command to distinguish between military personnel and civilians on the "highway of death." The whole intent of international law with regard to war is to prevent just this sort of indescriminate and excessive use of force.
    Source **WARNING GRAPHIC IMAGE**

    Pictures of the "Highway of Death"







    Which version is true? Did the US commit a atrocity against civilian in the first Gulf war? Was it necessary to bomb retreating soldiers? Does this incident support the role of the media in wars? i.e the media should get access to every war, so that the public may know what it's military is doing.
    Last edited by Guderian; December 08, 2005 at 11:13 PM.
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  2. #2
    John I Tzimisces's Avatar Get born again.
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    I dunno, was it necessary that Saddams army raped Kuwait mercilessly?
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    That is a really simple way of putting it eXc. It does not justify the killing of retreating soldiers. And you ignore the fact that their were civilian present...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guderian
    That is a really simple way of putting it eXc. It does not justify the killing of retreating soldiers.
    retreating soldiers that could rally and fight again.

    'live to fight another day'

    this pathetic talk of 'shouldnt of killed them when they were retreating!' is rubbish. u think the iraqis would have let american soldiers flee to rally at washington if the boot was on the other foot?

    its war for gods sake, they are soldiers, just because they are retreating for the time being does not mean they are out of the damn fight.

    its like that talk of the argentine cruiser? i think? that was sunk by a british sub in the falklands war, it was 'retreating' so shoudlnt of been destroyed blah blah blah.

    THEY ARE AT WAR.

    lol i would of loved to see the sight in ww2, as a german dive bomber comes down on a ship, they fire aa guns as it comes for them then as it flies past 'cease fire men! he is going the other way! we must wait until he turns round to atack again before we return fire!'

    jesus christ on a motorbike the logic of some people...

  5. #5
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    It is impossible to really prove that the militrary intentionally bombed civilians. There probably was concern that it was a major traffic of soldiers.

    That said, I've seen what one of our bombers can do. And this wasn't a couple smart bombs. This was carpet bombing. Works great in a long, flat area.

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  6. #6

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    In WWII we firebombed Hamberg day and night until the whole city was wiped out. How about atomic bombing of Japan...it is war. They had not surrendered, so the war goes on.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rustynail
    In WWII we firebombed Hamberg day and night until the whole city was wiped out. How about atomic bombing of Japan...it is war. They had not surrendered, so the war goes on.
    But morals don't apparently. One would have thought that 45 years later they were past the indiscrimate bombing of civilians. It's not like iraq's will had to be broken or anything. What's to prove?

  8. #8
    John I Tzimisces's Avatar Get born again.
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    Would you put it past Saddam to have killed them to make it look like US aircraft did it?
    You are right to a point about the retreating soldiers. I had relatives in Kuwait at the time of the invasion. It wasn't pretty. What if said retreating soldiers participated in the summary executions that took place in the streets and homes of kuwait, what about the rampant raping and looting? Does that make them exempt?

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    Quote Originally Posted by eXc | Imperator
    What if said retreating soldiers participated in the summary executions that took place in the streets and homes of kuwait, what about the rampant raping and looting? Does that make them exempt?
    That is like saying we should execute suspected criminals before holding any sort of trial. There is no way to prove which soldiers were in the vechicles. There was no reason for the bombing, other than to take the easy way i.e instead of capturing and processing them, they decided to simply bomb them civilians and innocence be damned. I find it ironic that this is dismissed so easily, if these were US soldiers and western civilians there would be outrage...

    Quote Originally Posted by eXc
    Would you put it past Saddam to have killed them to make it look like US aircraft did it?
    There is no doubt the US did it.
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    One would also wonder how Saddam Hussein would have accomplished that miracle, make a long highway look as if it's been bombed by american aircraft, complete with burned out wrecks and crispy corpses.

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    John I Tzimisces's Avatar Get born again.
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    I'll reiterate another point: The ridiculousness of the laws of war to begin with. Its all such hypocrisy, that I can hardly stand it...

    It is safe to assume that civilians would not be *intentionally* targeted in this day and age. Accidents happen in war, ESPECIALLY when its conducted at such a large scale as this. There is always the probability this sort of thing will happen, but when you have more people conducting an attack, its a law of probability that its more likely tragedies will happen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eXc
    I'll reiterate another point: The ridiculousness of the laws of war to begin with. Its all such hypocrisy, that I can hardly stand it...
    The laws are there for a reason. So that maniacs do not go on rampages, When the maniac is Saddam Hussein it seems these laws apply , but when the maniac turns out to be the US then these laws are hypocrisy...

    It is safe to assume that civilians would not be *intentionally* targeted in this day and age. Accidents happen in war, ESPECIALLY when its conducted at such a large scale as this. There is always the probability this sort of thing will happen, but when you have more people conducting an attack, its a law of probability that its more likely tragedies will happen.
    This was no "accident"...and it had nothing to do with ineffeciency of multiple nations conducting a singular attack.

    Quote Originally Posted by PhP Wiki, The Highway to Hell
    There was very little mainstream media discussion or commentary on the full scope of the high-tech massacre. One report observed that Marine Gen. Walter Boomer passed along a message to his commanders from Norman Schwarzkopf "not to let anybody or anything out of Kuwait" ( Bill Gannon, Newark Star-Ledger, Feb. 27, 1991). The Highway of Death was briefly featured but there were few reports on the other killing fields of the ground war. The other major route out of Kuwait to Iraq was a coastal route running north to the Iraqi border city of Umm Qasr and according to an Army officer on the scene there was "'nothing but **** strewn everywhere, five to seven miles of just solid bombed-out vehicles.

    The U.S. Air Force,' he said, 'had been given the word to work over that entire area, to find anything that was moving and take it out'" ( Michael Kelly , The New Republic, Apr. 1, 1991, p. 12). A Navy A-6 pilot noted that the convoy consisted of "a 20-mile nose-to-tail jam" ( Mike Gaines, Flight International, Mar. 6-12, p. 8).
    Same source.
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    John I Tzimisces's Avatar Get born again.
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    I don't mean multiple nations. I mean whenever you have a huge number of troops acting together, accidents are bound to happen. Besides, lets get real, it was a multinational force, but American troops, as per usual, make up the bulk.

    And gimme a break now, The "Laws" of War are ALWAYS and always have been hypocrisy. Try not to assume things about my opinions just because I live in america...

    EDIT: To avoid double-posting, and to just get this out in the air, I'll continue this tomorrow. I really need sleep. I have 5 college apps due monday, and I need the sleep, and besides, I can make a more coherent arguement.

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    This was no "accident"...and it had nothing to do with ineffeciency of multiple nations conducting a singular attack.
    Why was it not accident? What was the motive exactly?

    one more thing, this was the road leading from kuwait to iraq correct? Why would civilians use it to flee into Iraq from kuwait?
    Sure I've been called a xenophobe, but the truth is Im not. I honestly feel that America is the best country and all other countries aren't as good. That used to be called patriotism.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eXc
    I don't mean multiple nations. I mean whenever you have a huge number of troops acting together, accidents are bound to happen. Besides, lets get real, it was a multinational force, but American troops, as per usual, make up the bulk.
    Let's not get sidetracked, it was my misunderstanding. But the same thing still applies, this was a direct order, not a result of confusion. This is why Powel recommended the cessation of hostilities.

    And gimme a break now, The "Laws" of War are ALWAYS and always have been hypocrisy. Try not to assume things about my opinions just because I live in america...
    Point taken, but my point is that the laws are there for a reason, if you say those laws are hypocrisy then you have to apply that statement to every nation and group. Then all justification for wars would be null and void...even the ones that have actual justification.

    [EDIT]

    Quote Originally Posted by JP226
    Why was it not accident? What was the motive exactly?
    The motive was to stop people from leaving Kuwait, especially Iraqi soldiers.

    one more thing, this was the road leading from kuwait to iraq correct? Why would civilians use it to flee into Iraq from kuwait?
    Some were heading to Basra and others were using the Highway to get to their resepctive countries. You have to remember that countries like Kuwait and Saudi Arabia employ alot of "servant" workers from less well off countries.

    Quote Originally Posted by PhPWiki, The Highway to Hell
    To cover over the carnage, Saudi "mortuary platoons" quickly moved to bury the bodies without ascertaining whether the bodies were Iraqi, Kuwaiti, Palestinian, or Asian guest-workers. An episode shown on CNN on March 11 depicted the digging of mass graves for the massacred Iraqi troops, reduced to burnt-out corpses. But the mainstream media did little after the initial reports to investigate the Desert Slaughter, ranging from the bombing of Iraqis fleeing north to Baghdad or Basra, to those caught on the Highway of Death and other killing fields in Kuwait. No discussion took place either concerning who was responsible for the desert slaughter. Schwarzkopf had ordered at the start of the ground war "not to let anybody or anything out of Kuwait City" ( Newark Star-Ledger, Feb. 27, 1991) and after the war Air Force General Merrill McPeak ( 1991) stated: "I think we have tried to disarm the Iraqi Army as humanely as possible." But then he admitted that: "It's during this phase that the true fruits of victory are achieved from combat, when the enemy's disorganized" ( 1991). Yet what military "fruits" were realized in these senseless slaughters?

    Reports indicated that many of those retreating from Kuwait City had put white flags on their vehicles which were visible to U.S. pilots ( Rowan Scarborough , "Pool Report Aboard the USS Blue Ridge", Washington Times, Feb. 27, 1991) and, as noted, there were many reports that Kuwaitis, Palestinians, and other civilians were massacred by U.S. forces. Consequently, there were claims that the slaughter of retreating Iraqis and others constituted a war crime, violating "the Geneva Conventions of 1949, Common Article III, which outlaws the killing of soldiers who are out of combat" ( Joyce Chediac, "The Massacre of Withdrawing Soldiers on 'The Highway of Death",' in Clark et al. 1992, p. 91). The Bush administration claimed that the Iraqi troops were retreating to regroup and were thus in "fighting retreat," but, in fact, they were a "fleeing rabble," as the Pentagon would eventually admit.
    Same Source.
    Last edited by Guderian; December 08, 2005 at 11:54 PM.
    "In bourgeois society capital is independent and has individuality, while the living person is dependent and has no individuality." - Karl Marx on Capitalism
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  16. #16

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    I had a feeling this was yet another "America is the great Evil" thread.

    And sure enough, I was right.

    Get a grip. That highway of death was a blunder by Saddam and a lucky break for the coalition (a coalition that included SEVERAL arab nations).

    War is ugly. Saddam started that war btw, since you seem to have completely forgotten that fact. (Or convienently left it out because it throws this whole thread into the garbage where it belongs)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Al
    I had a feeling this was yet another "America is the great Evil" thread.

    And sure enough, I was right.
    Actually it started as something me and danzig were discusing in another thread.

    Get a grip. That highway of death was a blunder by Saddam and a lucky break for the coalition (a coalition that included SEVERAL arab nations).

    War is ugly. Saddam started that war btw, since you seem to have completely forgotten that fact. (Or convienently left it out because it throws this whole thread into the garbage where it belongs)
    You are completely ignoring the sources and the point Im making...
    "In bourgeois society capital is independent and has individuality, while the living person is dependent and has no individuality." - Karl Marx on Capitalism
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  18. #18

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    We didn't go into Baghdad because George Bush Sr didn't want to lose all the arab support he had recieved for ousting Saddam from Kuwait.

    Gawd, I wish we had. But I'm not going to second guess the Commander-In-Chief when he so brilliantly put that coalition together in the first place. Our biggest mistake was making promises we couldn't keep to the Kurds.

    As for your point? I had a hard time pulling the thesis out. All I saw was you accusing the US of either a) massacring a large number of civilians or b) were really mean to those poor old rapist republican guard.

    Both questions are rediculous at best.
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  19. #19
    JP226's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    The motive was to stop people from leaving Kuwait, especially Iraqi soldiers.
    So it was an accident then correct? The motive was not to kill civilians.

    Some were heading to Basra and others were using the Highway to get to their resepctive countries. You have to remember that countries like Kuwait and Saudi Arabia employ alot of "servant" workers from less well off countries.
    I don't exactly see why so many civilians would flee while the Iraqis were running away. Especailly if they had alrady sat through the sacking of their host country.

    Either way, you seem to be against this because we didn't know for sure. You'd rather have US ground troops engage them on the ground, senslessly putting our guys in a little more danger than they need to be.

    Well if you are against this, are you going to start a thread Falaise pocket.
    Sure I've been called a xenophobe, but the truth is Im not. I honestly feel that America is the best country and all other countries aren't as good. That used to be called patriotism.

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by JP226
    Well if you are against this, are you going to start a thread Falaise pocket.
    I was thinking about the same thing. The Falaise pocket
    was similar (actually worse) to the highway of death.

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