This just in, Air Marshal uses deadly force

[Francisco Montana]

This just made my head pop up from my keyboard.


Passenger shot by air marshal is dead: report
Wed Dec 7, 2005 3:40 PM ET

MIAMI (Reuters) - An American Airlines passenger who claimed to be carrying a bomb was shot by an air marshal on a jetway ramp while trying to flee a plane arriving from Medellin, Colombia, at Miami International Airport on Wednesday, a U.S. official said.

CNN, citing information from law enforcement sources, said the passenger had died.

"Shots were fired as the team attempted to subdue the subject," the U.S. Homeland Security spokesman said.

The incident took place as American Airlines flight 924 arrived from Medellin for a stopover in Miami en route to Orlando, Florida.

The spokesman said the passenger indicated during the flight that there was a bomb in a carry-on bag and upon landing immediately exited the aircraft through the jetway at Gate D42. Air marshals pursued and ordered the passenger to get down on the ground.

"The passenger then reached into his carry-on bag, at which point, consistent with air marshal training, the air marshals took the appropriate actions. Shots were fired as the team attempted to subdue the subject," the spokesman said.

American Airlines spokesman Tim Smith confirmed: "There was an incident on the jet bridge on one of our aircraft in Miami."

The flight, a Boeing 757, arrived from Medellin, at 12:16 p.m. The flight was due to leave for Orlando at 2:18 p.m.

[danzig]

Yeah looks like a mental case though who yelled he had a bomb after running down the aisle of the plane. His wife (or woman saying she is) said he was biopolar and hadnt taken his medication. Kinda of sad if this is true but really Air Marshalls had little choice and shot and killed him.

[Boudicca]

This does sound very tragic. Wheater deathly shots were actually legal or not will depend on the circumstances of the case. If the claims of this man were credible, and it was not recognizable that he might have a mental disability, and if the Air marshal did have all reason to think he would detonate a bomb by reaching into his bag, well, then he actually did not act justified but should legally be regarded as justified. It is just like any common self-defense situation:

A person claims to have a gun in his bag, by the use of which it is going to shoot you. It reaches into it's bag (to draw out the gun that is not there). You yourself do have a gun to prevent this and fire. Later (you're always more clever later), the police finds that the person actually did only have an apple within its bag.

[danzig]

Mr Focker said it best:

Norm : I got a plane full of people saying you threatened that stewardess.
Greg Focker : I was not threatening her. I was just trying to get my bag into the overhead storage thing...
Norm : You were acting like a maniac and you threatened her with a bomb.
Greg Focker : No, I said I didn't have a bomb.
Norm : But you said bomb.
Greg Focker : I said, "It's not like I have a bomb".
Norm : You said "Bomb" on an airplane.
Greg Focker : What's wrong with saying 'Bomb' on an airplane?
Norm : You can't say 'Bomb' on an airplane!
Greg Focker : Bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb bomb bomb bomb bomb bomb. You gonna arrest me? Bomb bomb bomb bomb! During the war I was a BOMBadier!

--
As far as the marshalls go the key moment seem to be the guy reached for his backpack after being taken to the ground, if true that alone combined with the bomb claim justifies him being killed. You just cant take that risk no matter how tragic it is if he is indeed someone with issues.

[the_mango55]

Wow, that is kind of sad, but what an idiot. I had never heard of an Air marshall shooting someone before.

[Francisco Montana]

I had never heard of an Air marshall shooting someone before.

That's really why I posted this I guess. And I agree with your assesment Danzig. Assuming the guy really was nuts, this is sad, but, again, you can't blame the Air Marshal for making a split second decision and following training protocal) I did, however, feel this was best put in the Mud Pit incase someone comes along and tries to condemn the Air Marshal's actions.

[Erik]

That's sad, especially if he realy is a mental patient.

[Farnan]

It is sad but neccessary. What is worse, a dead man who falsely claimed to have a bomb, but didn't; or a whole plane full of dead people because the man had a bomb?

[Richard the Lionheart]

I think the Marshall might have panicked for a minute and thus over-reacted. But his concern was obviously justified and so he had to make a split-second decision. Though perhaps he could have shot the guy somewhere else, so he wouldn't die.

[Admiral Nelson]

What if the terrorists are trained pilots themselves and gain a job with an airline? Bulletproof doors would serve no purpose then.

[PyrrhusIV]

My news Station said their are roughly 4,800 , so I guess me and the other poster have some different numbers. All I know is 75% of them are given priority assignments that usually include foreign in and out flights, the other 25% have U.S to U.S Priority. And they are training more daily.

I personally like this protective measure.

[HorseArcher]

The marshalls are doing their job. That's my input. I'm happy that they don't hesitate on anyone.
At least all the idiots with stop joking (not this mentally disturbed man, but the ones who think they can joke about this) with the word "bomb" they soon find a bullet in their back real quick.

bulletproof cabins and doors?
you forgot about the passengers. dude, if the terrorists start threatening and actually killing off passengers that's oK? But the pilots alive? Yeah, they might not killed the pilot or hijacked the airplane (if the pilot has super-nerves), but they would kill off the entire flight.

The guy shouldn't have passed by metal detector/search? heh, those are already proven as an "aid" not a solution. Hey, i passed the search and the detectors with 3 lighters in my pocket. and i wasn't even trying to hide them and they are prohibited on US flights.
It's not like they gonna open your handbag unless you have an obvious looking object, but yeah, you could fill a small capsule with nitro-gliceryn and claim it as your medication, and that bulletproof door don't have a chance against explosives.

[John I Tzimisces]

While sad, it DOES prove that if an Air Marshall is on board, any attempt by a terrorist of any sort poses significantly less threat than before, particularly in a hijacking attempt. The presence of Air Marshalls seemingly removes the need for the ban on sharp objects being carried on board...good, I say. I'm more worried about plastic explosives than I am about a box cutter. Let THAT be taken care of at the airport itself.

A good statistic that could cause some worries as to their actual widespread presence is that there are 28000 flights daily in the US...but only 2000 air marshalls. Considering there was less than 100 on 9/11, I suppose thats an improvement...

Bipolar or not...when you're in a situation like the marshall...do you have time to think or negotiate? What with all the remote-detonation technology out there, the guy could have set off a bomb at any point during the incident. Of course, as we found out later, the guy seems to have posted no threat. But what if he had? We'd have dead passengers and people asking WHY did this happen, why did this happen, even though we took these precautions?

[Ó Cathasaigh]

I don't see the problem, anyone would have shot the man in the Marshalls position.

[Darkragnar]

did they mention about finding a bomb or a weapon on him ? or is this anyother case of mistakn identity ?

[Machiavelli's Apprentice]

did they mention about finding a bomb or a weapon on him ? or is this anyother case of mistakn identity ?

It really doesn't matter if he had a bomb or not. Banks have been robbed by unarmed men claiming they had guns.

"Give me the money, or I'll pull out a gun and shoot you".

This is a great way to rob a bank, as no one out of hearing distance could tell that a robbery was taking place, and nothing incriminating appears on the security cameras.

[danzig]

did they mention about finding a bomb or a weapon on him ? or is this anyother case of mistakn identity ?

Nope no bomb according to news and comments from officals though it isnt a case of mistaken identity...claiming to have a bomb is as good as having one.

[Legio XX Valeria Victrix]

I don't know....

I can understand why it happened, but I can't understand why they shot the guy when they did.

The way I'm picturing how it happened was the guy's cornered with his hands in the air and he reaches into his bag...boom. What I mean to say is, if the man had a gun in his bag a) how did it get past the metal detectors and bag checkers? b) Why couldn't the agents, who already had their guns trained on the man I presume, wait to see what he was taking from his bag? Chronologically speaking, unless he's Clint Eastwood he's not getting a gun out of his bag, aiming it at an agent and getting a shot off before the agents can identify that he's got a gun and shoot him before he can even aim it. I'm not passing judgement, but I'd like to think in a similar situation, I would've waited to see what was coming out of that bag before I fired.

[danzig]

I don't know....

I can understand why it happened, but I can't understand why they shot the guy when they did.

The way I'm picturing how it happened was the guy's cornered with his hands in the air and he reaches into his bag...boom. What I mean to say is, if the man had a gun in his bag a) how did it get past the metal detectors and bag checkers? b) Why couldn't the agents, who already had their guns trained on the man I presume, wait to see what he was taking from his bag? Chronologically speaking, unless he's Clint Eastwood he's not getting a gun out of his bag, aiming it at an agent and getting a shot off before the agents can identify that he's got a gun and shoot him before he can even aim it. I'm not passing judgement, but I'd like to think in a similar situation, I would've waited to see what was coming out of that bag before I fired.

Er read the story he said he had a bomb not a gun and there is no way you were going to let someone who claims to have a bomb reach into a bag where the bomb and ability to set it off would be.

[Legio XX Valeria Victrix]

Er read the story he said he had a bomb not a gun and there is no way you were going to let someone who claims to have a bomb reach into a bag where the bomb and ability to set it off would be.

Ah, my mistake. I must've read 'gun' from one of the other posters and thought it came from the story. My bad.

And it's quite simple, really. Make the cabin doors bulletproof and locked shut, and have a pistol handy in the cabin/cockpit/whatever its called. Sure, it costs money, but people would feel much more secure and it would foil 90% of terrorist plots.