Christmas - now a hallmark holiday.

**Kanaric** · December 06, 2005, 03:16 PM

With all these incredibly overly pc marketing campaigns going on to make Christmas available for everyone it makes the holiday completely lose its meaning. Companies, and even George Bush call Christmas trees "Holiday trees" as corporations try to use campaigns like "Chrismahanikwanzikah" so that it turns it into a HUGE buying day for the whole nation, not a religious holiday for Christians.

IMO this is completely ridiculous, first the main thing that pisses me off is George Bush, whose supposed to be "pandering to the religious right" as I hear many die-hard liberals on this board say, even is involved in this BS. Its also annoying because its basically turning a holiday associated with the majority religion into something like a Thanksgiving with gifts, a securlar holiday. I'm not a religious person but it still annoys the hell out of me. Simply because I know its corporate executives that ordered this, not because its PC but because it makes more money in the longrun. As a result of this its a corporate hijacking of a religous holiday.

Sure the buying gifts and other things associated with it has been around for ages but the real meaning of the holiday was kept intact, however now its turning into like the holiday is in Japan. Something with no real meaning, just another day to buy gifts to fill the Virgin CEO's pockets.

**imb39** · December 06, 2005, 03:20 PM

Bah! Humbug!

People like giving and receiving presents. Perhaps the message of Christmas is getting lost but, there again - in Britain at least - we are becoming increasingly secular and the bible is losing its impact. It has formed the basis of our laws. For me, that's enough. Knowing some bible stories is nice, though. Good yarns, if you ask me. Biblical, even!

**Kanaric** · December 06, 2005, 03:22 PM

Then why turn a holiday that is ment for one religion into a hallmark holiday just to fill a fat man's pocket? I wonder what would happen if we secularized a minorities holiday?

**imb39** · December 06, 2005, 03:24 PM

Well, I'd enjoy it. Another day of work. bliss......

**Neurotransmitter** · December 06, 2005, 03:24 PM

Dude, nobody said you couldn't still call it Christmas. And if you're all bent outta shape that a freakin politician is being politically correct, then you're really as naive as you sound.

The truth is that nobody cares what you call Christmas, even the non-Christians. They don't give a **** about our holiday, and i don't give a **** if some company wants to advertise with "season's greetings" instead of "merry christmas". No use getting bothered now about the cheapening of Christ's birth celebration. Shoulda been mad at freakin Santa Claus and pine trees decades ago.

If Christmas is truly a religious holiday for you, what the **** do you care how much money a capitalist economy makes off it? Capitalist economies make money off EVERYTHING... that's why we call them "capitalists". Concentrate on what's important about the holiday and why we as Christians celebrate it, not about what other people want to call it.

**therussian** · December 06, 2005, 03:25 PM

Originally Posted by Kanaric

Then why turn a holiday that is ment for one religion into a hallmark holiday just to fill a fat man's pocket? I wonder what would happen if we secularized a minorities holiday?

They would rise up and start demonstrating, saying that thier Constitutional rights are being hampered. Todays governments are such brown nosers to minorities these days. Especially the UK. It's disgusting really. All I feel is contempt.

**Erik** · December 06, 2005, 03:26 PM

Originally Posted by Kanaric

even George Bush call Christmas trees "Holiday trees"

"Christmas trees" have nothing to do with christianity.
It's a pegan tradition and existed long before christianity came to Europe.

Also: Christmas isn't of any religious significance so who cares that it's a commercial event?
Christians should celebrate their real "holy-days", like Easter, and leave "Christmas" to the pegans like it was for thousands of years.

**therussian** · December 06, 2005, 03:27 PM

Originally Posted by Erik

"Christmas trees" have nothing to do with christianity.
It's a pegan tradition and existed long before christianity came to Europe.

Also: Christmas isn't of any religious significance so who cares that it's a commercial event?
Christians should celebrate their real "holy-days", like Easter, and leave "Christmas" to the pegans like it was for thousands of years.

Are you serious? It was the (supposed) birth of Christ. Even though Orthodox celebrate on January 6

**Justinian** · December 06, 2005, 03:29 PM

Originally Posted by therussian91

Are you serious? It was the (supposed) birth of Christ. Even though Orthodox celebrate on January 6

Jesus was born in September/October. Or possibly August.

**therussian** · December 06, 2005, 03:32 PM

Originally Posted by Justinian

Jesus was born in September/October. Or possibly August.

Yes, I've heard that theory, but for religious sake, he was born in late December, early January.

Erik: It doesn't matter whether they celebrated or not. And if it was started after only a "few" centuries after, then what about the remaining centuries? Plus, you must remember, that Christianity only gained a strong foothold presicely a "few" centuries after his birth, with Constantine. Thats when the whole idea and philiosophy started to flourish.

Though, I must admit that Easter is MUCH more important than Christmas, Christmas is still probably the second most religious holiday.

**Erik** · December 06, 2005, 03:38 PM

Originally Posted by therussian91

Erik: It doesn't matter whether they celebrated or not. And if it was started after only a "few" centuries after, then what about the remaining centuries? Plus, you must remember, that Christianity only gained a strong foothold presicely a "few" centuries after his birth, with Constantine. Thats when the whole idea and philiosophy started to flourish.

My point, as a non-christian, is:
STOP hijacking our holiday you christians!
You have your own holidays, let us have ours.

Stop calling our decorated trees "chrismas trees", they have nothing to do with your gods.

**Erik** · December 06, 2005, 03:32 PM

Originally Posted by therussian91

Are you serious? It was the (supposed) birth of Christ. Even though Orthodox celebrate on January 6

So?

People in the middle East didn't celebrate birthdays.
This is a typical Roman habit.

"Christmas" didn't exist as a christian holiday until sever centuries after christ.

Easter, named after the Pagan Goddess Oestre (or something like that). Symbol was an egg (I think) for fertility...

Easter is a combination of a pegan and christian holiday.
If yo utake out the eggs and bunny you are left with the most important christian holiday.
Easter has real religious significance because it's about major events in the life of Christ.

**imb39** · December 06, 2005, 03:28 PM

Originally Posted by Erik

"Christmas trees" have nothing to do with christianity.
It's a pegan tradition and existed long before christianity came to Europe.

Also: Christmas isn't of any religious significance so who cares that it's a commercial event?
Christians should celebrate their real "holy-days", like Easter, and leave "Christmas" to the pegans like it was for thousands of years.

Easter, named after the Pagan Goddess Oestre (or something like that). Symbol was an egg (I think) for fertility...

**Kanaric** · December 06, 2005, 03:28 PM

And if you're all bent outta shape that a freakin politician is being politically correct, then you're really as naive as you sound.

You know this is George Bush who i'm talking about right? The so-called champion of the religious right? The one who was elected partially for religious nature? The one who when he does this kind of thing shows EXTREME irony? The very same president who same constituancy is HIGHLY annoyed by this?

This is just a way to make it so that the minorities dont feel left out from spending millions at Sears, nothing more. Its less PC than it is that....

"Christmas trees" have nothing to do with christianity.

Almost all christian traditions have nothing to do with Christianity. Easter only has the Jesus story behind it, besides that its an old fertility holiday. Its still a tradition associated what that singual religion, the pagans no longer exist.

**therussian** · December 06, 2005, 03:29 PM

Originally Posted by Kanaric

You know this is George Bush who i'm talking about right? The so-called champion of the religious right? The one who was elected partially for religious nature? The one who when he does this kind of thing shows EXTREME irony? The very same president who same constituancy is HIGHLY annoyed by this?

This is just a way to make it so that the minorities dont feel left out from spending millions at Sears, nothing more. Its less PC than it is that....

"Hypocrisy is the foundation of sin"...

**Kanaric** · December 06, 2005, 03:31 PM

Jesus was born in September/October. Or possibly August.

They didn't really know that when they created the holiday. Like how they say he was born in 3 BC as well.

Which makes me wonder, how do these people know it was in October and 3 BC? They have a time machine? Its not like he left any relics behind.

**imb39** · December 06, 2005, 03:31 PM

Originally, Christmas was in March. Then the calendar was changed... I might be wrong on this. Do we have a resident expert here?

**Comrade Alexeo** · December 06, 2005, 03:39 PM

I fully agree with you.

I have an interesting perspective on this, being Jewish. Let me list my thoughts because I'm too lazy to use paragraph form:

1) I remember in elementary and middle school always being asked to explain Chanukah. Besides the obvious bit of "Hey I'm the token Jew!" there's also the fact that Chanukah isn't an important holiday. It doesn't even come CLOSE to being one.

The most important Jewish holidays are, in occasionally varying order:

A) Yom Kippur (the Day of Atonement)
B) Sukkot (a spring festival)
C) Rosh Hashanah (the Jewish New Year's and the start of thinking about Yom Kippur)
D) Passover (when we left Egypt)

Chanukah probably has one of the more interesting stories behind it (except for Passover - locusts and boils? the Nile turning to blood? no contest), but its not that important - and yet everyone thinks it is. I used to think it was!

Chanukah wasn't meant to be the Jewish version of Christmas. My mom told me that when she was a kid, her parents might give her a few small things - but it wasn't Christmas, and she was fine with that.

Now Chanukah has become all weirded-out. If there were a holiday to give presents in Judaism, it'd probably be Sukkot - but how many Jews celebrate Sukkot? How many people have even heard of it?

2) Stop with the stupid Political Correctness. Its a friggen Christmas tree - it doesn't belong to Judaism or Islam or Buddhism or any other religion. There are no "Chanukah bushes" except for people who watch "It's a Wonderful Life." The tree is for Christmas, so call it a Christmas tree (or "German paganism tree" at the very least).

3) Kwanzaa. Kwanzaa is another one of those things that is unbelievably stupid - but if you're white you can't say that it is or you're racist. I mean, come on - a holiday celebrating your blackness or something? That just HAPPENS to be around Christmas (does Africa ever get snow? NO!)?

Can you imagine if there was a "Caucasian Day?" People would go NUTS!

Worse yet, Kwanzaa isn't even a "holy day" - its not religious. It'd be like making Arbor Day a big deal and praising God for being black-er, I mean, for trees existing. Chanukah may be a minor holiday in Judaism and so lumping it with Christmas is bad enough - but then you throw Kwanzaa in the mix? It'd be like having Easter, Passover, and... well, Arbor Day, and calling it "Eastassobor."

Now I have nothing against African-Americans. But Kwanzaa? Are you kidding?

That's enough for now... I have a feeling I'm going to get my arse kicked if I keep talking