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Thread: Do the Palestinians want peace? should they?

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  1. #1

    Default Do the Palestinians want peace? should they?

    I know im going to take a lot of flak for this, but I hope people will be able to see it in the hypothetical light I do.
    I often wonder not only if Palestinians actually want peace , as its entirely possible that they do or dont without me knowing, but if they actually think it makes sense from a geopolitical point of view.

    First id like to state that a common point of view by many palestinians/muslims and even people in the west is that Israel is a demographic time-bomb and will eventually implode with too many palestinians around and will cease to function as it does (either as a democracy, or as a jewish state, or at all, etc) This is in fact the point of view that most people use to encourage Israel to make peace, I dont know if theres any truth to it or not, But its a very commonly held opinion.

    Next id like to point out that at least in my opinion, most of the backing palestinians recieve is different from the type Israel recieves, Most of the support Israel recieves is conditional (despite many claims its not) and comes and goes and changes. While most of the support palestinians recieve is unconditional and will remain regardless of any methods they use, After all its remained through 2 intifadahs and countless suicide bombings, in a sense their reputation can only improve simply because its already at a point where killing innocents is more or less acceptable. While palestinian backing also comes and goes depending on the flavour of the day as it were, (some days an earthquake is a big deal, the next its huamn rights etc) Its usually something thats ingrained.

    So now id like to go on to my point, currently palestinians have found less and less avenues for violence, perhaps justifiably or not improving their overall reputation by default (failed suicide bombings dont get much attention) with very little actual decrease in their terrorist capacity (they still have a large terrorist base , thats more or less inactive) and the world is putting pressure on Israel despite any measures taken such as a settlement freeze or negotiations, In other words the support for the palestinian cause seems not only to be unconditional, but increasing, while they dont have to give up any of their threats (demographic or militaristic)

    This seems to imply that for the palestinians avoiding peace is not only a realistic option, but possibly a desirable one. After all agreeing to peace means having to deal with Israel, probably being inferior economically (not garunteed, but its likely in my eyes) and having to drop their complaints, which may be hard to do if they feel they have gotten an "unfair" deal. (which believe me, everyone will think they received in any peace deal whatsoever , and both sides will always believe they got screwed) The setlements are theoretically threatening, But the more of them that exist the more of an economic base there is left for the palestinians to take over when they leave (if they believe theyre garunteed to leave) so its not as terrible as it might seem, if they believe its temporary and reversable to their advantage.

    Apart from this, achieveing peace is currently difficult, Israel is not the only side for which a status quo is more convinient, for the PA and Hamas both it means not bothering with elections and staying in power indefinatly, with easy money from international supporters that they would have to otherwise raise through tax revenue. And both the PA and Hamas have an inherent animosity that makes dealing with both of them nearly impossible and one dealing with the other difficult .

    Does anyone have any thoughts? please keep it civil if you can. Please forgive me in advance if I cannot respond promptly, I probably will not be able to.
    Id also appreciate it if people dont come in and post one-liners consisting of "WALL OF TEXT" please
    "If you can't get rid of the skeleton in your closet, you'd best teach it to dance." - George Bernard Shaw (1856-1950)

  2. #2

    Default Re: Do the Palestinians want peace? should they?

    Some do, some dont.


  3. #3
    ♔Goodguy1066♔'s Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Do the Palestinians want peace? should they?

    You have no idea what you just started, Roy.
    The flame-war will come extremely soon, and when it does it will hit you so hard you won't want to come near the internet for a month!
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    Both male and female walruses have tusks and have been observed using these overgrown teeth to help pull themselves out of the water.

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    Walruses use their iconic long tusks for a variety of reasons, each of which makes their lives in the Arctic a bit easier. They use them to haul their enormous bodies out of frigid waters, thus their "tooth-walking" label, and to break breathing holes into ice from below. Their tusks, which are found on both males and females, can extend to about three feet (one meter), and are, in fact, large canine teeth, which grow throughout their lives. Male walruses, or bulls, also employ their tusks aggressively to maintain territory and, during mating season, to protect their harems of females, or cows.
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    The two subspecies of walrus are divided geographically. Atlantic walruses inhabit coastal areas from northeastern Canada to Greenland, while Pacific walruses inhabit the northern seas off Russia and Alaska, migrating seasonally from their southern range in the Bering Sea—where they are found on the pack ice in winter—to the Chukchi Sea. Female Pacific walruses give birth to calves during the spring migration north.
    Only Native Americans are currently allowed to hunt walruses, as the species' survival was threatened by past overhunting. Their tusks, oil, skin, and meat were so sought after in the 18th and 19th centuries that the walrus was hunted to extinction in the Gulf of St. Lawrence and around Sable Island, off the coast of Nova Scotia.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Do the Palestinians want peace? should they?

    Quote Originally Posted by ♔Goodguy1066♔ View Post
    You have no idea what you just started, Roy.
    The flame-war will come extremely soon, and when it does it will hit you so hard you won't want to come near the internet for a month!
    Well im probably just going to cherry pick on responding to civil comments actually.
    But in all honesty its quite likely I really wont be able to respond for a couple of days(or only infrequently). So to see what will happen will be interesting to say the least.
    "If you can't get rid of the skeleton in your closet, you'd best teach it to dance." - George Bernard Shaw (1856-1950)

  5. #5

    Default Re: Do the Palestinians want peace? should they?

    Quote Originally Posted by ♔Goodguy1066♔ View Post
    The flame-war will come extremely soon, and when it does it will hit you so hard you won't want to come near the internet for a month!


  6. #6
    Ordinarius
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    Default Re: Do the Palestinians want peace? should they?

    I think it will play for the palestinians hands if they keep the current situation as it is.
    they get more money and power,our goverment is on constant preasure from the world,the number of arabs living inside israel is growing (more than 20%)...
    even if a palestinain country will be created and peace will be achieved...there would still be over 20% palestinians living inside israel...and they give birth to alot more children than we do...so even if they do get a country,those left in ours will be the majority within 50 years or even less...so i dont really see a good solution that will actually solve anything and last for a long time.
    and i am not even starting to talk about politics and the power of hamas and fatah and the internel fights between the pals...

  7. #7

    Default Re: Do the Palestinians want peace? should they?

    I think average Jew and Palestinian both want peace but they want it on their own terms and extreme elements on each end keep things inflamed to ensure there will never be meaningful compromise. Imo Jewish have to accept sharing of Jerusalem and Palestinians have to accept existing settlements are going to stay which just isnt going to happen. The one state solution isnt a real solution and anyone who preaches it fully knows it because whether we like it or not Israelis are NOT going to accept as you put it demographic time bomb. And you cant blame them really.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Do the Palestinians want peace? should they?

    My opinion is that the US doesn't want peace between Israel and Palestinians. Such a frozen conflict allows the US to have more control in the middle east region. Same reason, for example, Russia wants to keep the status quo between Armenia and Azerbaijan over Karabakh, because once peace is achieved Russia will lose valuable power and leverage in the South Caucuses.

    Do Palestinians want peace? Depends on the Palestinian. Some don't and just want to continue fighting Israel and realize their wet dream of destroying Israel, others are suspicious of Abbas's intentions but want peace that favours Palestinians heavily, and others are more realistic and support the current efforts. I don't believe such a thing can be generalised for the entire Palestinian population.

    One of the problems in realising peace is the enormous amount of anti-West propaganda that fills Palestinian society; I believe this propaganda is a main culprit.
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  9. #9
    CamilleBonparte's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Do the Palestinians want peace? should they?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Mov View Post
    My opinion is that the US doesn't want peace between Israel and Palestinians.
    Wow. Really?
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  10. #10

    Default Re: Do the Palestinians want peace? should they?

    Quote Originally Posted by CamilleBonparte View Post
    Wow. Really?
    Not overtly of course. By keeping the status quo US actually retains a good amount of power over the region. This is very similar to the way Russia is keeping control of South Caucuses by keeping the status quo in the frozen conflict. It's a typical move by big powers.
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  11. #11
    hellheaven1987's Avatar Comes Domesticorum
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    Default Re: Do the Palestinians want peace? should they?

    The only peace for Palestinians is to wipe up Israel from the map; any term besides that is just a temporary truce for next war.
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  12. #12

    Default Re: Do the Palestinians want peace? should they?

    Palestinians cannot seriously expect any form of 'victorious outcome'...be that peace, sovereign statehood, or even a bag of cement to repair their living room bulletholes.

    I liken the situation to a hand of Spades, wherein the Palestinians may hold a single deuce of spades while Israel holds all others plus most aces and kings. It's time to "Shoot the moon", according to the local variant of house rules by which I learnt the game. If your hand is so pathetic that your chances of winning even 1 or 2 tricks out of 13 are slim, your strategy must become a controlled, intentional losing one, wherein your opponent cannot realize what is really happening until the final few tricks. It's a truly wonderful thing to accomplish: first tricks falling to your gloating opponent as your face can reveal only disappointment and surprise, middle tricks also falling as your opponent gradually catches on to the real game at play...finally, throwing away the last of your utter-crap cards as your opponent desperately tries to lose tricks while still holding the very best cards in his arsenal.

    If you can successfully shoot the moon, you win the entire game, all previous scorekeeping is irrelevant. If not, as typically in 9/10 hands your opponent slips in and gives you a trick, you've usually killed any chance of winning the game by handing your opponent a huge pile of points.

    Even if Palestine might win a small victory of sorts through negotiation, their position is so weak that they stand more to gain by casting aside what little leverage they do possess...encourage Israel to inflict their very worst, while hoping for the best eventual outcome. Desperation enables the craziest strategies...but every once in a while, one works.

    EDIT: I just realized, ironically enough, that we used to joke about Spades being a "jail" game. How appropriate...
    Last edited by chamaeleo; September 16, 2010 at 06:48 PM.
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  13. #13

    Default Re: Do the Palestinians want peace? should they?

    At the moment it's bad for them to want a complete peace as Israel is unwilling to give anything back.
    The right answer would be that they do want peace but under the circumstances that they want which can also be surely said for Israel.

    Considering both nations would stop the fight tomorrow:

    Israelis are in no way willing to give up land or the already established settlements.
    They want Jerusalem and have it be accepted as the capitol.
    It's also safe to assume that they don't want millions of Arabs in their state that could potentially change the political structure and definition of Israel.
    So they don't want the right of return exercised.
    They also won't let a Palestinian state with all of its freedoms including military ones.

    Palestinians want pretty much all of the occupied lands.
    They want complete freedom and sovereignty of any nation, including militarily.
    They want Jerusalem.
    They want the right of return to be exercised.

    The facts above are kinda why there won't be peace; there can be a long lived ceasefire though if both sides can establish mutual professional trust from the start.
    They also make me believe more in the UN partition plane as the only sensible option.
    Last edited by PointOfViewGun; September 16, 2010 at 09:57 PM.
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  14. #14

    Default Re: Do the Palestinians want peace? should they?

    Israel just wants to Palestine more. No wonder many Palestinians are angry and unwilling to peace (though many also do want some form of peace that would benefit them). Israel is just creating settlements in there land, so it's obvious Israel also doesn't want peace, as the same as Palestine. So don't be hypocritical by saying Palestinians don't want it, when Israel doesn't want it also.

  15. #15
    Blaze86420's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: Do the Palestinians want peace? should they?

    The better question is: "Do the Israelis want peace? And why the don't they?"

  16. #16
    Jaketh's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Do the Palestinians want peace? should they?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blaze86420 View Post
    The better question is: "Do the Israelis want peace? And why the don't they?"
    cause they are hardcore and thrive on the suffering of their enemies

  17. #17

    Default Re: Do the Palestinians want peace? should they?

    As other said, Does Israel want peace?
    The Palestinians have little in either bargaining power or military power.
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  18. #18
    Ordinarius
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    Default Re: Do the Palestinians want peace? should they?

    Of course israel wants peace.
    but what is the meaning of peace? a situation where both people can live peacefuly and thrive,protected without any threats.
    We cannot give them the 'right' of return. simply because thats a death blow to israel.simple as that.
    800,000 jews have been kicked from muslim countries and moved to israel,all their property,lands and money stolen.what about the right of return for them..? no right of return will be given.
    the pertition plan was relevent to 1947 ,its been 62 years dont forget that...things have changed dramaticly,the demographics,power and political...everything had changed...
    so for you...the only thing you want is peace,but for us,that "peace" of yours can be a death blow to israel and the jewish people. this is not one sided of course,we cannot give up everything while they dont do anything in return, it should be mutuel in a way that both people can live together...but as i see it now? they want us to give up everything and it seems like they are just wanting to regain power and strike again when they are stronger and we are weaker.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Do the Palestinians want peace? should they?

    The most correct question must be "do Israelies want peace?". Not the other way.
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  20. #20
    Tiberios's Avatar Le Paysan Soleil
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    Default Re: Do the Palestinians want peace? should they?

    No. It's not a one sided conflict in which you can blame one party as being solely responsible. Both sides have screwed this up and both have to want peace before anything significant steps towards peace will take place.

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