Thieves Guild Spam - guild system imbalance?

[bɑne]

The question of the week sparked by the report in #1846.

Fix the spamming of Thief Guild offers, and AI building of Thief Guilds.

The fix is VERY simple: export_descr_guilds.txt, rem out trigger 0212

;Trigger 0212_Spy_Mission
; WhenToTest SpyMission
;
; Condition MissionSucceeded
;
; Guild thiefs_guild a 2

This trigger is the principle reason for theif guild spam. There are still multiple triggers for the guild, including points for every spy you recruit, so its still easy enough to get the guild. But, without this trigger you don't have every city in every faction with tons of points towards theif guilds.

Considering what a universal complaint thief guild spam is, and how simple the fix is, it amazes me that this isn't fixed in every mod.

My current autorun campaign (AI vs AI) doesn't show any signs of a overpresent thieves guild - but thats only one campaign, so let me know your experiences.

[Meneth]

What you maybe should have written too, is that this feedback will be used, if proven necessary, to tweak the thieves' guild triggers/numbers.

[bɑne]

Ok, I felt that this was strongly implied, but yeah, this isn't just to satisfy my morbid curiosity.

[Spoon]

Maybe this sound strange but I almost never find a thieves guild in a conquered town nor do I get many offers of the thieves guild in my own cities.

[Shoryn]

I only had thieves guild offers in the city where I recruit all my spies/assassins (the same goes for the assassin's guild)

[k/t]

I haven't had that problem in SS. In Vanilla, yes. In fact, I think I've been offered only one Thieves' guild so far in all of SS. Then again, I have been recruiting a lot less spies since I found out about watchtowers.

I think in SS the AI uses spies and assassins less than in Vanilla.

Very, very few AI settlements so far have had a Thieves' guild in them. They tend towards Merchants' and Theologians'. I play RR/RC, but I don't think that matters.

[Neptune7]

I haven't had that problem in SS. In Vanilla, yes. In fact, I think I've been offered only one Thieves' guild so far in all of SS. Then again, I have been recruiting a lot less spies since I found out about watchtowers.

I agree on the watchtower thing. Ever since I found out about them I recruit alot less spies, and I never get offered thieves guilds. However that may change because I may use them to scout approaching armies. The only 1:1 battle odd battles that I lose is when the enemy outnumbers me in cavalry. They just crash into my infantry and a rout soon follows.

[Slyspy]

I'm eager to found a thieves guild in one of my cities, but keep on being offered merchants guild, theologians guild and chapter houses instead. So I'd say, based on my experience of 6.3 so far, that thieves guilds are not so easy to get. It depends on your playstyle I suppose.

Generally once you have one guild it seems easier to get more of the same than it does to get something different. For example, I have never ever been offered a horse breeders guild in any of my SS games no matter what version. I don't train many cavalry units and prefer to retrain existing ones to retain their experience until they become obsolete. Yet in my current game as soon as I captured a couple of castles with the guild I was offered them in quick succession for all my other castles.

Edit:

Not voted in the poll since no option completely describes my experience.

[Smokey Bacon]

In my experience theologians guilds are offered most, then merchant's, then St.john's chapter houses.

[sbroadbent]

I'm eager to found a thieves guild in one of my cities, but keep on being offered merchants guild, theologians guild and chapter houses instead. So I'd say, based on my experience of 6.3 so far, that thieves guilds are not so easy to get. It depends on your playstyle I suppose.

Generally once you have one guild it seems easier to get more of the same than it does to get something different. For example, I have never ever been offered a horse breeders guild in any of my SS games no matter what version. I don't train many cavalry units and prefer to retrain existing ones to retain their experience until they become obsolete. Yet in my current game as soon as I captured a couple of castles with the guild I was offered them in quick succession for all my other castles.

Edit:

Not voted in the poll since no option completely describes my experience.

In my Aragon 6.2 game, thieves and assassins guilds don't seem to come up very often. I've been training as many spies and assassins as I can (all from the city I want the guild in), sending them on as many missions as possible, and building the brothel line in evey city I can otherwise.

On the other hand, all of Castile and Portugals castles have had Horse Breeders, but with all the cavalry they have been pumping out, that's not surprising.