why is the Teutonic Order in the Baltic?

[Slaists]

Just wondering: why is the Teutonic Order placed in the Baltics in the time-frame of the game-start of KGCM?

Konigsberg, for example, was founded around 1250, after the Prussian Crusade. At time of the game-start, the territories allocated to TO in KGCM were controlled by pagan Prussians (several Baltic tribes, related to Lithuanians and Latvians). The Teutonic Order, on the other hand, was stationed in the Outremer and Armenia. I think, it would make the course of TO more interesting if, at the game start, it got a province in the Middle East and then would be forced to relocate (via a crusade) to the Baltic Coast.

Just an idea

[Magefsx]

Probably because the AI would have heart failure with that idea- although if scripted it could/would work!- but you should probably aim this at HHB and SF who's good at this sort of stuff. Would be tres groovy, I must say

[Slaists]

Probably because the AI would have heart failure with that idea- although if scripted it could/would work!- but you should probably aim this at HHB and SF who's good at this sort of stuff. Would be tres groovy, I must say

Yes, it would be lovely if someone (not me) could script this

[Soul Firez]

Hmm rubs chin indeed this could be possible via scripting although it would never work completely historically but a close proximation of such could be done. If someone wants to do the historical reaserch for dates and areas controlled by all means send it to me and i can make scripting for such .

I will try it out myself to see how well it works before including it in HHB but would add as an optional for start to see if people like the idea

[Peteriscoolz]

It would be pretty easy I might try it out too all you have to do is give The tuetons acre and then spawn about 2 stacks around the baltic in 1250.

[Soul Firez]

to be safe you would have to go a little beyond that as i fear the AI would if you just spawned stacks in the baltic it would send these men to the regions owned in the holy lands(AI will consolidate men in and around its original listed regions.

You would have to spawn these stacks with generals with labels so then by script you could force them to siege the baltic regions and most likely give them scripted building in those regions to avoid them well just abandoning the regions to again return to the holy lands. The AI is a fickle creature that needs to be heavily directed if you want some sort of semi historical effect lol.

[Swarbs]

Well, it should be noted that prior to around 1230 there was no Teutonic state as such, the Order just had an administrative role in the KoJ, without any actual autonomy.

@Soul Firez, the full timeline is as follows:

1190: TO founded in Acre to run hospitals and protect pilgrims. Like the Knights Templar but smaller and more German
1209: Grand Master Hermann von Salza came to power. He had the ear of the Holy Roman Emperor and was very ambitious. Annoyed that the TO didn't have any land
1211: Branch of the TO established in Hungary to fight the Kipchaks
1225: TO kicked out of Hungary for trying to create its own state, under the Pope
1226: Golden Bull of Rimini authorises a crusade to Prussia and authorises the TO to create their own state, under Papal authority, made up of Culmerland in Poland, and any other land they capture
1230: TO establishes a castle at Vogelsang and starts beating on the local Prussians

So if you wanted to do it right, you should probably have the TK holding Acre until 1226, then have the crusade called in Prussia, then have the TK relocate by taking Acre away and giving them a castle (probably a new region) between Danzig and Konigsberg. Or you could just give them Marienburg, even tho it wasn't built by then. The only problem is what if the TK expands outside Acre by 1226 (very likely if they are human controlled) and also who do they expand against, as Acre is surrounded by KoJ settlements. You could have the TK as an emergent faction, but then a human can't play them...

[Slaists]

I do not know much about modding. So, here is my uneducated idea. Would it be possible to start TO as a horde (similar to some Germanic factions in BI)? After all, the engine is pretty much the same as in RTW. Players could control hordes in BI.

[Dave Scarface]

Just wondering: why is the Teutonic Order placed in the Baltics in the time-frame of the game-start of KGCM?

Konigsberg, for example, was founded around 1250, after the Prussian Crusade. At time of the game-start, the territories allocated to TO in KGCM were controlled by pagan Prussians (several Baltic tribes, related to Lithuanians and Latvians). The Teutonic Order, on the other hand, was stationed in the Outremer and Armenia. I think, it would make the course of TO more interesting if, at the game start, it got a province in the Middle East and then would be forced to relocate (via a crusade) to the Baltic Coast.

Just an idea

Answer: KGCM is not a mod obsessed on historical accuracy like some mods. It is a game first and foremost and the fun factor is far more important. Your novel idea ruins one of the best campaigns in the whole mod, Teutonic Order, and makes them virtually unplayable with 1 settlement. What about the, mongols invading russia in 1180 AD? I presume you would want that scripted to happen much later as well? And while were at it the world is round event should be restored and the Aztecs frozen for 200 years?

I am assuming Marienburg and Konigsberg would start off rebel? Meaning Lithuania would have it way too easy. Unless you started Poland at war with Lithuania. But even then, 1 less faction in the Baltic makes a massive difference. A human TO player would have no chance of trying to play a historical campaign in the Baltic. You would be locked down in the outremer. The more I think of this idea the less sense it makes, sorry. I just think your messing with the balance of the mod too much. My honest thoughts.

Dave

[Slaists]

Answer: KGCM is not a mod obsessed on historical accuracy like some mods. It is a game first and foremost and the fun factor is far more important. Your novel idea ruins one of the best campaigns in the whole mod, Teutonic Order, and makes them virtually unplayable with 1 settlement. What about the, mongols invading russia in 1180 AD? I presume you would want that scripted to happen much later as well? And while were at it the world is round event should be restored and the Aztecs frozen for 200 years?

I am assuming Marienburg and Konigsberg would start off rebel? Meaning Lithuania would have it way too easy. Unless you started Poland at war with Lithuania. But even then, 1 less faction in the Baltic makes a massive difference. A human TO player would have no chance of trying to play a historical campaign in the Baltic. You would be locked down in the outremer. The more I think of this idea the less sense it makes, sorry. I just think your messing with the balance of the mod too much. My honest thoughts.

Dave

My honest thoughts are that it's your mod, so you're the master and can do as you please. I just made a suggestion that made sense to me since I was originally "from that end of the world".

As to the bit about Lithuania: my very personal preference for this time frame would be to have a pagan Prussia in the place where TO is now. In 1180'ies Prussians had much better defined statehood than the other Baltic tribes. Ironically, Lithuanian tribes (Samogitians and Aukstaisai) were kicked in the high gear by their resistance to TO's expansion in the XIII century while the ones considered Latvian nowadays (Semigalians, Couronians, Selonians, Liivs and Letgalians) were subdued by the Germans for the next 600 years.


Anyway, my compliments for your excellent work on this mod!

[chris7ian]

I think they were only a Military Order until the Baltic Crusades in which they setup their Monastic State.