Wars of Renaissance

[KamilW]

Yes, a lot of "should". That's how you talk English. I use "should" because some things "should" be in the mod or should be in this or that way. If you don't agree, well... I'm only trying to help. I understand you don't have time and it's only a hobby. You don't have to point that out to me! I was merely suggesting some changes and made some remarks. I like a lot of your units, but by far not all. I don't have to like all of them, right? And as fan of OiM I'm trying to help, giving my opinion about the units. You say I'm wrong. Intel said I was wrong. We discussed some things and I think we all agree on some aspects. If you're commenting on my posts with things like "there's a lot of 'should' in your posts", well, then that's a pity. People are different. If I were a mod maker, I would never ever say "some things are ok, some aren't". It's not my attitude. If I do things, I do them right, and I'll keep doing them until I get it right. You seem to have quite a different attitude. More of an attitude like; it's done and I don't care whether it's good or not.

and if you think "we all know how they dressed" it can be not really correct)))

Don't talk me like I'm a child. What do you think? That I don't know that? Of course we don't really know how cossacks dressed. But you can actually say this about everything in history. About every single thing you could say "We don't know how it really was". Of course we don't. The only thing we have is books and Internet. We have the sources and we don't know whether they're correct or not but we have to use them because it's the only thing we have. Otherwise you can make cossacks with helmets and machine guns as well. I'm trying to make this mod better, so you'll have more satisfaction and the players will perhaps enjoy it more. If your answer is "some things are ok, some aren't", well, like I said. It's a shame! I know one thing. Never listen to Russians talking about history. Don't have to explain that one, I think. Seriously, if you can't handle a bit of criticism and give answers like "it's only my hobby". Well, then don't do it, don't mod! All great mods are great because of dialogue, discussion and most importantly criticism/feedback. Don't forget that!

[druzhina345]

Here is a 1702 print of a cossack by Luyken based on an earlier drawing.

druzhina345
Illustrations of Costume & Soldiers

[druzhina345]

Illustrations of Safavid Persians from a Shahnama at Bayerische Staatsbibliothek - Ms Pers 10, 3rd quarter of the 16th century
. Faridun with Jamshid's daughters
. Faridun tests his sons
. The murder of Iraj
. Faridun replies to the 2nd message of Salm and Tur
. Manuchihr fights Kakuy, grandson of Zahhak
. Manuchihr kills Salm
. Sam asks the Simurgh to return Zal
. Prince Zal is presented to Manuchihr

MIRROR SITE
Illustrations of Safavid Persians from a Shahnama at Bayerische Staatsbibliothek - Ms Pers 10, 3rd quarter of the 16th century

druzhina345
Persian Illustrations of Costume & Soldiers

[KamilW]

Here is a 1702 print of a cossack by Luyken based on an earlier drawing.

Druzhina
sites of wargaming interest

Good picture! This is my idea of how the unreal cossacks (czern), even some real ones should be like. They didn't all wear a kaftan (kind of jacket, like in the units pictures of the mod, don't know how it's called in English).

[komatozz911]

well peoples are different)) as for me discussion in english its not ok to understand or explain everything.. anyway i wont change this units before release because i need to make another ones.. there are a lot of work for mod release))

[lekseus]

KamilW, please, have a look at cossacks http://www.rusizn.ru/armiyarom01_002.html
http://www.mirolova.ru/lot704.php
http://dimukraine.com/terracossacorum/?p=50
Do they look like peasants?

[rafalek91]

kamil w has right. but komatozzz too. there was cossacks whos looking like peasants. fighting with finding or stolen weapon, wearing poor clothes. but they have nobels too. they wearing clothes in polish style like kontush and used better weapons. some cossacks served as hussars, definitely elite formations, not for poor peasants. you must balanced this two styles, remember that cossack believed to be a
free peoples and they weared what they likes. not any uniforms. the last link from leksus is good example

[Yggdrasill]

I can't believe I didn't see this mod before. Renaissance is my absolutely favorite time period, and not a singl mod covering it exists...such a shame. I was devastated when it was leaked a few days ago that CA is doing Rome 2 next..I was really hoping for Renaissance.

Anyway, great work so far, and I really hope you manage to finish this project.

A couple of questions/suggestions:

1. What is the planned release date? What is the relation with OiM2 mod - both mods are by the same team, or are you collaborating? Will this be released before OiM2, or is OiM2 first, or are both mods released at the same time?

2. Will the mod include war-wagons (wagon forts) and other types of field fortifications (like earthworks, movable gulai gorods for Russians etc.). This was an important feature of warfare in the 16th century.
In case you don't have the manpower to work on this, please note that people have already managed to get a very basic war-wagon model incoporated in the game...Maybe you can use that?

3. In vanilla M2TW, English longbowmen had the special ability 'Plant stakes'. As far as I remember, no other unit had that ability, event though pretty much all factions and all infantry used such stakes as a simple field fortifications quite regularly, especiall in eatern Europe...for example, Hungarians, Ottomans, Cossacks...
So my suggestion is to enable this special ability for other infantry units also, and not only English longbowmen, and in particular for other archers/arqubusiers. In case you can't get the war-wagons and other field-fortification stuff incorporated, this would be a nice 'Plan B' to fall back on.

4. Is this mod going to use already existing mini-mods (modules) that improve various non-faction specific elements?? - for example better smoke, better blood, better combat animations, better vegetation and trees, better horses...
I ask this because I noticed that your human models are great, but horse models look very basic. You can easily improve this by including the already existing mods that improve these elements. Most creators are more than happy to share their work, so that shouldn't be a problem.
Also, there are other good mods you can consider. For example Real Recruitment/Real combat is a really great mod that improves strategic parta of the game...will your mod use any of these already available resources?

5. A couple of suggestions for other mods that may be willing to share resources with you and thus reduce your work load...
First, Magyar mod team have prepared a very complete, very good and historically extremely accurate roster for Hungarians and Ottoman factions. See this video: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=520019

The only problem is that they are very reluctant to share their work....but it's worth a try, no?
In any case, their units are gorgeous!

The other is Ottoman: For the love of sultans. http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=400778

Again, really high quality units, so if they are interested in a cooperation, it would be beneficial for all parties I guess


I am aware that you're up to your eyeballs in work with this, so please don't take my post as an unrealisatic whine by a fanboy...rather as a good faith list of suggestions/wish list of items that would improve your mod without much additional work for you guys (since most of this stuff is already available from other mods)...

Anyway, I am keeping my fingers crossed for you guys...I sincerely hope this mod works, so I finally get to play my favorite time period

[KamilW]

KamilW, please, have a look at cossacks http://www.rusizn.ru/armiyarom01_002.html
http://www.mirolova.ru/lot704.php
http://dimukraine.com/terracossacorum/?p=50
Do they look like peasants?

Don't you think I know?! If you had followed the whole conversation (I think roughly 10 post), you would know that in my opinion, just like rafalek said, there should be cossacks like the ones you show in your links, but also cossacks who are dressed like peasants. And as an answer to your question "Do they look like peasants?" I say: some of them, yes! Take for example the cossack from the first picture in the last link. The first one from the left I think. And if you look further in the same link, yes, there are quite a few cossacks who aren't dressed in 'uniforms' like the uniforms made for the mod. No, they wear baggy pants, a white shirt, or no shirt at all. Some have czapka's other don't have a czapka, but that typical cossack haircut. I'm only saying there should be much more variety and that the cossack units I've seen for the mod are almost clones (exaggeration). Some of these units look like they were regular army, all dressed in the same brown nice uniform and that's a bit wrong if you ask me. That's not how it was. And that's the only thing I said. I never said cossacks can't look like in the pictures in your links, never ever have I said that. I said there should ALSO be cossacks who are dressed like peasants. And I also said that it should be nice if there was more variety in the units, but Komatozz has already said he doesn't have time to make the units look better.

[Ensis1410]

http://www.moddb.com/mods/with-fire-and-sword-2-ii

[komatozz911]

Yggdrasill, hi))

1. release of OiM2 planned in autumn, there is only one team and OiM2 its lokal mod that will be released first, than will be global Reanissance mod
2. yes we have wagons but thats all, as far as i know its only one working thing
3. some units use stakes
4. now we pay our attention on base of mod - models, map, campaigns, after we will add some improvment, now we have better smoke, better blood, horses will be improved too
5. magyar mod not already released as for turks we already have own high quality models

[Yggdrasill]

Yggdrasill, hi))

1. release of OiM2 planned in autumn, there is only one team and OiM2 its lokal mod that will be released first, than will be global Reanissance mod
2. yes we have wagons but thats all, as far as i know its only one working thing
3. some units use stakes
4. now we pay our attention on base of mod - models, map, campaigns, after we will add some improvment, now we have better smoke, better blood, horses will be improved too
5. magyar mod not already released as for turks we already have own high quality models

Thank you for the reply komatozz

I am looking forward to this, and to OiM2 as well.

I just hope that the translations into English will not take too long - maybe you should make the mod directly in English?

[komatozz911]

Guys, all the discussions about OiM2 now here: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...4#post11643874

[Wallachian]

Good stuff!

[Antioco III]

Just discovered this mod! I love renaissance period and i can't wait to play it! here in Italy is nearly 2 a.m. and i think i'm having wonderful gunpowder-dreams tonight I'm dowloading the beta right now... i think.... i hope...

[druzhina345]

Illustrations from Kitab al-makhzun li arbab al-funun by al-tarabulusi. A manual of military practice and horsemanship, 1578-1579

Featuring:
Incendiary arms and incendiary bombs
Hand-to-hand combat
Horse archery
Archery
Crossbows

Mirror site
Kitab al-makhzun li arbab al-funun by al-tarabulusi. A manual of military practice and horsemanship, 1578-1579

druzhina345
Illustrations of Costume & Soldiers

[3R1C]

lol nice

[Mr Kriegtooth]

I got some questions! First off, this looks awesome! Well thats not a question

Anyway, is this mod in English, or at least has a translation? And to download it, would I just download all six parts? I cannot speak or read Russian

[komatozz911]

No english translation, its planned after release...

Yes all six parts..

[Mr Kriegtooth]

Awww How long until its finished?