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  1. #1

    Default A good starting faction?

    Hi.

    I'm not a TW expert, not a Third Age expert aswell.
    I've tried Harrad - My eco got detroyed, and I can't defend againts one stack of Gondor army :/
    I tried Dale, but got steamrolled by Rhûn. Same thing happened when I tried Dwarfs.

    Elves - I hate fighting in woodlands, can't see a freaking thing!
    Tried Gondor, but to get killed by stacks and stacks of Modor. But when I tried Modor I got killed by elves and Gondor :/

    I tried the Free people of Eriador, but my economy sucked and then the Orcs came.

    I think often its my economy that is the main problem to my defeats. But I don't know what to do. I try starting trade as fast as I can, getting roads and tradebuildings. I've tried farms. I've tried to just go for military and capture as much as I can.
    Its really frustraiting.

    And I want to play on VH/VH.

    Is there a good starting faction? A good starting build?
    Should't there be a newbie guide?

    Cheers.

  2. #2

    Default Re: A good starting faction?

    dont play VH/VH.


    * its unfair to the player, and not for a "newbie". AI its the same in medium or VH. But in VH they get more money from nowhere and free armies, also their units are more powerfull ("unfairly" boosted).


    When you play more that would be likely be the way to get more challenge. But atm is that.


    * I mean, you wont get a less stupid AI by playing VH/VH. Just an AI with better and more units than normally. (in a short explanation, AI cant be modded (only minor changes), only buffed so it is kinda a challenge.)



    As for starting factions, rhun or harad seems easy ones for me. Elves and dwarves too
    Last edited by Black_ice_Spain; September 10, 2010 at 07:56 PM.

  3. #3

    Default Re: A good starting faction?

    My first campaign I went with Eriador and I played Eriador the most at of all my campaign, so I think I can give you some tips.

    Your main enemy should be the Orcs of Gunabad and the Orcs of the Misty Mountains. You should try to get an alliance with the Dwarfs as quick as you can. This will help stop the Dwarfs and The High Elves from attacking each other and they might even ally with each other too. Also you should give the Dwarfs military access so they can fight the Orcs. Also you might want to let the Dwarfs take the territory to your north, so they can fight the Orcs more directly.

    To get your economy good, first you should make dirt roads in all you cities. This will boost trade income. Also you should try to take your troops you start with and combine them into a big army to limit the amount of troops you have to buy. Also I would only build troops in the settlements that are bordering you enemies.

    You shouldn't have to worry about Isengard to much early on, they will be focused on Rohan for awhile. Between you, the dwarfs, High Elves, and Silvan Elves should should be able to beat the Orcs into submission. By the time the Orcs are gone, then you should be able to take down Isengard pretty fast. There northern settlements shouldn't be to highly guarded if there fighting Rohan, but you have to take what you can and take it fast because Isengard will be able to react pretty quickly to your aggression against them.

    If you are still having trouble I would recommend the High Elves. There are not as many trees compared to the Silvans and you should have time to develop you economy before you do any serious fighting. I don't too much on how the High Elves will work for you, because I never played them.

    Hopes this helps.
    Last edited by Stitch074; September 10, 2010 at 08:00 PM.

  4. #4
    delra's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: A good starting faction?

    VH/VH Eriador. Don't fight much, expand economy for 100 turns, grow Annuminas to max size, create Arnor. Get an idea how building tree is done, how much cash you will have at your disposal and so on.

    Don't listen to people who say VH/VH is too hard, mod was made to be played at this difficulty. Everything below is lame.
    Last edited by YD23; September 12, 2010 at 08:13 PM. Reason: Insulting.

  5. #5

    Default Re: A good starting faction?

    Quote Originally Posted by delra View Post
    VH/VH Eriador. Don't fight much, expand economy for 100 turns, grow Annuminas to max size, create Arnor. Get an idea how building tree is done, how much cash you will have at your disposal and so on.

    Don't listen to people who say VH/VH is too hard, mod was made to be played at this difficulty. Everything below is lame.

    Just play the difficulty that you are comfortable with in till you get used to the game. I started out on the medium difficulty. When you get better then try making the difficulty harder. Don't play VH/VH just because someone on the Internet said that its lame to play on a lower difficulty.
    Last edited by YD23; September 12, 2010 at 08:13 PM. Reason: Edited quote.

  6. #6
    The Holy Pilgrim's Avatar In Memory of Blackomur
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    Default Re: A good starting faction?

    Quote Originally Posted by delra View Post
    VH/VH Eriador. Don't fight much, expand economy for 100 turns, grow Annuminas to max size, create Arnor. Get an idea how building tree is done, how much cash you will have at your disposal and so on.

    Don't listen to losers who say VH/VH is too hard, mod was made to be played at this difficulty. Everything below is lame.
    Now why are you using such a derogatory term like this for? Everybody has their own opinions and they should be respected. Just because somebody doesn't confrom to your ideology of "awesome" doesn't make them losers. Please do try and show others a little more respect.

  7. #7
    _Tartaros_'s Avatar "Harzschütze"
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    Default Re: A good starting faction?

    best for every faction in every game - learn to win heroic fieldbattles and how to defend city´s.

    learn how to use bows, cav, infantry and off cause siege weapons (i like catapults and ballistas for defending my city´s with the mousetrap-tactic)

    second important - kill the enemy general as soon as possible

    cav and bows are the most important unit on field - heavy infantry and siege weapons in citys

    if you can win battle with a small amount of troops, your econmy got the breeth to work well in the first 60 turns.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    8. Tips and tricks

    There are also several tricks that one may utilize in order to help defend against assaults when in castles. I have summarized them below.
    Reverse Psychology

    Sometimes, though not often, I will opt to place artillery inside my walls. Generally, trebuchets and mortars are the only weapons with arcs of fire high enough to get over the wall, but used right, and they can be deadly. They can destroy artillery and siege weapons far easier than towers, and at greater ranges. Cannons, serpentines, ribaults, and basilisks can be used inside the walls, though only for street fighting. Bombards and grand bombards are not recommended.
    Regicide

    The enemy general is the most valuable enemy unit, especially in siege warfare. Attackers are touchy when assaulting stone in addition to men, and are therefore easy to rout. Concentrating on the general, so much so that you waste far more troops than you kill, can be used as an atom bomb to enemy morale, and will work when all other hope is lost.
    Catapult Banzi

    Enemy artillery is often the most effective weapon they can use against you, and what's worse, is that they are generally out of range. By sending your cavalry out, you can try to rout their weapons before they can severely damage your walls. Be forewarned: your cavalry are almost certainly screwed, and even so, chances for success are not good. This is not a job for your general.
    Suckerpunch

    An interesting method I sometimes use can help weaken the strength of enemy battering rams. As the ram nears my gates, I will send men out to attack the unit arming it. The ram will stop, and them men will start fighting, giving my archers time to get rid of the ram. Also, if your men make it back inside, your gates are still serviceable.
    Mousetrap

    An addition to the suckerpunch method, you can attack and then draw the enemy inside your walls. Then, after a sufficient amount are separated, attack at the end of their column, separating them from the gates. If you do this right, the gates will shut, and then half their army is between your pissed off troops and a hard place.
    9. Preparation

    Preparing for siege is also important. If I notice that the enemy is about to attack me, I will start preparing as soon as I notice. This often will be when they attack, which is a little late, but if I happen to figure it out beforehand (hint: large enemy stacks hanging around your cities is a good harbinger of doom), I will do some things to prevent my ass from being kicked. This consists of making repairs and retraining and recruiting last minute units. Do not build anything that takes more than one turn, because if you do, it won't be finished in time, and production stops during a siege. There are some good units to have, and there are bad units. Try to keep them straight:

    Examples of good units:
    Heavy infantry
    Archers
    More archers
    Some light infantry
    High-trajectory artillery (Trebuchets, mortars)

    Examples of bad units:
    Cavalry, for the most part
    Low-trajectory artillery
    Lots of light infantry

    Now why are some good, and some bad? Heavy infantry can hold key positions far easier than light infantry, which is only really effective when moshed. A mosh pit of infantry can be demoralizing to an enemy, but is particularly dangerous; if your general is not present in the mosh pit, one rout can start a chain reaction that will destroy you, and if your general is in it, and he dies, the battle is pretty much lost. Heavy infantry are also very effective on walls. Gone are the days of RTW when units routed on walls they fought to the death; now, your men will actually rout. This is good for the defenders, because it means that the enemy is far easier to get off the wall, but it also means that stronger units must be placed on the wall. Also, stronger units will outlast the enemy, and sieges, even in battles, are often simply a waiting game. Whoever routs first will lose, and the longer your men can hold out, the better.
    10. Types of defense

    There are thee main types of defense when holding off an enemy army. These three types are a Static Defense, a Dynamic Defense, and a Composite Defense.
    Static Defense

    A Static Defense is the most simple of all defense strategies. When one is utilizing a static defense, one simply places his units directly in front of the enemy, and does not give them orders. This works fairly well, most of the time. It also has the advantage of not requiring you to give your men orders, and this is very important, as I have pointed out in my previous section on the stupidity of your soldiers. However, static defenses can have problems, especially when the odds are particularly out of your favor. A static defense cannot react well, and will not have a reserve. While it may have several lines of defense, it is not conducted with a fallback plan in mind. A static defense can basically be termed as a fight to the death, since there is no room for error. They must be meticulously planned, but if done right, can be very effective at crushing enemy troops at minimal losses. The problem, of course, is that you must be there to meet every single enemy attack, and you only have enough men to do that when the odds are not far out of your favor. Even so, they maximize the chance of victory, though they increase the chance of heavy casualties being sustained.
    Dynamic Defense

    A dynamic defense is a very hard thing to pull off, and relies a lot on luck. The only time you really need to use a dynamic defense is when you have a lot of cavalry units. Cavalry works far better under charge conditions, and so it is better to place your cavalry far from the gates, so that when the enemy breaks through, you can meet them in stride. Placing infantry around your gate in an ambush is another method; a dynamic defense usually relies on a small force at the wall, followed by a large, strong reserve that is brought up where it is needed. This strategy is only very effective when one has a lot of cavalry, and is not recommended otherwise.
    Composite Defense

    A composite defense combines both elements of a static defense and a dynamic defense. Composite defenses often result in higher enemy casualties than static defenses, but are far riskier. Composite defenses are most effective in citadels and fortresses, where your men can fall back to a second line of defense. A composite defense will have a moderately sized reserve, with static defense positions interwoven. When utilizing a composite defense, one is at liberty to do more things - however, if you make a mistake, you are often far more screwed than you would under a static defense. The advantage of a composite defense lies in its ability to accept odds. When the odds are far out of your favor, and you do not have many mounted units, a composite defense can be utilized to help secure victory.
    Sallying forth

    Sometimes, it is best to sally forth. This sort of defeats the purpose of the siege, so I do not do it often. However, sometimes it is a good idea, under specific purposes. The obvious time for this to happen is when you are about to surrender, and it is your only hope. A good tool there is the mousetrap method, which I described earlier, though this does not always work. However, another important time to sally forth is when two armies besiege you, and your general can conduct a night attack. Attacking at night will remove half the enemy reinforcements, and you can therefore greatly increase your chances of victory. When sallying forth, send your cavalry out first. Then, send out your infantry, and get them in formation before assaulting. Sometimes, it is a good idea to place your units in column formation. That is a good idea if you are planning on fighting within the indent that forms in your wall around the gate. However, if you are not planning on doing this, move your men into a standard formation, and fight it as if the walls were not there.
    .

  8. #8
    Vaul's Avatar Miles
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    Default Re: A good starting faction?

    For defending cities I recommend that you put melee units on the walls, and put your archers behind the walls, or rather beneath the walls... when the enemy climbs onto your wall, they will form a small crowd in the middle of your defenders... when that crowd becomes bigger, let loose your archers (with fire arrows if possible)... they will flee in a very short time, and you will hold your walls no matter the foe... stronger enemies will withstand your arrows a bit longer, but in the end they will all flee, every time... I never lost my walls, not one single time

    Holding the gates is a different matter of course, but there's nothing special to recommend there hold the line!

  9. #9

    Default Re: A good starting faction?

    Quote Originally Posted by _Tartaros_ View Post
    best for every faction in every game - learn to win heroic fieldbattles and how to defend city´s.

    learn how to use bows, cav, infantry and off cause siege weapons (i like catapults and ballistas for defending my city´s with the mousetrap-tactic)

    second important - kill the enemy general as soon as possible

    cav and bows are the most important unit on field - heavy infantry and siege weapons in citys

    if you can win battle with a small amount of troops, your econmy got the breeth to work well in the first 60 turns.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    .
    Never heard of the mousetrap-tactic, do explain please.

    The Orcs of Gundabad Erin go Bragh FROGS

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  10. #10

    Default Re: A good starting faction?

    Don't believe that. If you don't want to play ALL battles yourself go for m as battle difficulty. Otherwise you will not win any battle without playing it.

  11. #11

    Default Re: A good starting faction?

    Quote Originally Posted by Friedrich Barbarossa View Post
    Don't believe that. If you don't want to play ALL battles yourself go for m as battle difficulty. Otherwise you will not win any battle without playing it.
    I'm pretty sure that the results of auto-combat are influenced by the campaign difficulty, not battle difficulty.

    And I really see no shame in trying a lower difficulty if VH/VH is no fun for you, though I never did it in this mod.

  12. #12

    Default Re: A good starting faction?

    High Elves are the easiest, move your capitol to Mithlond, trade and alliance with dwarves, work down the coast and Defend Imladris and take Ost in Edhil, by turn 100 you have gold archers and infantry and higher tier units everywhere. The orc factions, and Isengard are pretty helpless against your archers especially early and not too many trees. Silvan are harder, Eriador I have to turtle with others don't.

    DO NOT AUTO RESOLVE WITH ELVES. Fight the battles yourself and you will find it far less expensive.

  13. #13
    delra's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: A good starting faction?

    This "someone" is authors of this mod in the very first message you get. ;-)

  14. #14
    NSFW's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Re: A good starting faction?

    Quote Originally Posted by delra View Post
    This "someone" is authors of this mod in the very first message you get. ;-)
    Funny, but to me that message appears to be saying that you shouldn't complain about the game being too easy if you're not playing on VH/VH, not that anyone who chooses to play on a lesser difficulty should be persecuted by other members of the community.

    Have you considered the harm that your bigoted attitude does to this community? By being so derisive of those who play below VH/VH you encourage them to hide the fact, as if it's a "dirty secret" of which they should be ashamed.
    This, in turn, means it's less likely they'll mention their difficulty level when they talk about their experiences with the mod, which makes it harder for others to make the best use of their advice, or to compare relative game experiences meaningfully.

    I really don't understand why some people get so up themselves because they play VH/VH, or look down on others for not doing so.
    Truth is even VH/VH isn't all that hard; Once you know how the TW engine works winning mostly just comes down to attention to detail, which in turn comes down to taking the time to micro-manage one's kingdom.
    Personally my RL responsibilities don't leave me much TW time these days, & I choose to play on H/H so that I don't have to worry so much about the "busy-work" which playing on VH enforces; quite simply it means I get to do more of the bits of the game I enjoy, which is kind of the point of any hobby.

    If other members of this community choose to ignore my opinions, or advice, because of this then it's probably their loss. *shrug*
    "Never argue with an idiot; They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience." -Obake Date

  15. #15

    Default Re: A good starting faction?

    For those who played a few years, and know the tricks VH/VH is fine. I remember starting and I certainly did not do well. Its easier learn while having fun so there is nothing wrong with a new guy playing on medium or whatever he wants. Its his game on his computer, after a couple campaigns as he learns unit match ups and learns some tactics (forums are really helpful for that) he'll be on VH/VH soon enough

  16. #16
    Baywatch's Avatar Ducenarius
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    Default Re: A good starting faction?

    There's no shame in starting out with the training wheels on, everyone has to start somewhere. The mod is meant to played on VH/VH but, if it's too much to handle lowering the settings so you can actually have fun and learn the game is preferable to getting your arse kicked again and again and then likely giving up out of frustration.

    A faction I highly recommend for your first go would be the High Elves. A very easy starting position, excellent troops, and a good economy make them a great faction to start playing with.

    Clearly has his priorities straight.

  17. #17

    Default Re: A good starting faction?

    I'd also recommend high elves. Easy starting position. You only have to worry about OOG at first. You can sometimes get rewarded with some of the best starting cavalry during missions. Battles against OOG will also take you out of heavily forested areas so you don't have to worry about trees so much unless you get attacked in or near the region where Imladris is located.

    There are several guides in the Guide section of this forum. There's also at least one on the High elves.

    Another possiblity is Rhun which I have never played. It also has a strong starting position and its cities can get very very rich. Also as an evil faction you get to take part in invasions. And you have no forests to worry about initially.
    Last edited by 3MKA; September 11, 2010 at 01:20 AM.

  18. #18
    Libertus
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    Default Re: A good starting faction?

    Get alliances with the other good/evil factions to keep them from deciding you're an enemy.
    Use low taxes to encourage settlement growth(especially important as high elves, you need ports for trade)
    but don't leave generals governing settlements with low tax rate.
    If your conquering army needs to push foward and you deem you won't be able to keep recent aquisitions, sell them to allies with culture in that settlement, or peace treaties with nearby enemies to keep your rear secured. Different allies have different amounts available to them, you may want to sell territories to bankrupt allies at 100 each to keep them afloat a little longer, but generally you want $$/turn.

    Hills hills hills. Tempt an enemy army to attack your much weaker one in a spot where they have to climb a big hill before they get to your army to fight, exhuastion makes for a heroic victory every time. Example: Defending Hornburg from just outside the fortress is a billion times more effective than defending the fortress itself.

    Catapults are great anti-troop, ballistas are great anti-catapult because they rarely miss.

    Look to conquer and keep:territories that have high culture of your own, enemy economic centers, enemy training centers. Taking Isengard won't completely destroy Saruman, but it'll lower your heart rate by 20 beats per turn.

    If invasion called against you, probably best to lose that settlement before the crusaders arrive in your lands...preferably to someone you can take it right back from afterwards

    ..and move capital around while checking financial screen....central location is highest revenue.
    Last edited by enkidu; September 11, 2010 at 12:34 PM.

  19. #19

    Default Re: A good starting faction?

    Best first faction to play would be Rhun imo.
    Your early units are very good and you can utterly destroy early Dale armies with minimal losses using skirmishers and horse archers.
    Later on when you get access to the yellow Loke -blahblah units you got great archers, superb cavalry, and very strong melee units....and your early horse archers and skirmishers still remain useful.
    Easy starting position.
    Potential economy very good due to Sea of Rhun area.
    First opponents (Dale) are weak and you can destroy the faction quite early on (more fun to let them grow and fight their later units tho which are a lot stronger).
    Length of campaign maybe a bit daunting (hold 50 regions) but multiple ways to do it after killing Dale - go down and whack Gondor via Dol Amroth while their armies are fighting Mordor and Harad, smash the dwarves (tough nuts but your mobility means you should have no problem as long as you fight in the open) or even turn on Harad. The pope (ehem I mean Dark Lord) won't like it though.
    Last edited by menawati; September 12, 2010 at 09:09 AM.

  20. #20
    withfriend2's Avatar Tiro
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    Default Re: A good starting faction?

    hmm i agree, there should be a "newbie guide" or at least a general guide that tells you good starting moves i would create one but im still getting accustomed to this game and i have no guide writing experience

    Btw the tips you guys posted helped my campaign, thanks :

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