How do I make Gauls stop attacking each turn?

[Landorin]

Hello,

first of all, this is a really great mod.

However, at my current progress, I estimate 1 - 2 real time years before I might finish this map. I know this mod isn't supposed to result in a fast game and I like this chess-like playtime kinda - at first.

I started things slow and with the help of the 15 turns survival guide I managed to stay alive and slightly expand my empire.
Don't know what the exact year now is, it claims 260 A.D. but at 180 or 160 B.C. it somehow suddenly jumped to 250 .A.D. (no other mod or so installed, just SPQR v7). Still pre-Marian units.

My issue is: the gauls keep and keep on attacking. Sadly, I can't auto resolve battles ever as they will even beat me with 1 legion vs 2 of mine. So I have to fight every battle myself which makes it extremely (!) slow to advance on the map in the south. Often I have to fight 2+ battles per turn.

I managed to establish solid defenses at all bridges so now pretty much all attacks are fought on a bridge which which makes it easier. But the annoying "fight lots of battles each turn" remains, it's tiring and not allowing much progress at all.

After reading some threads here I believe I am doing something wrong and could do better. One thread mentioned the AI compares the amount of legions and if I have more then gauls will "think twice before attacking me" (whatever that means in gameplay terms).


So here's my question: what can I do to get a break from fights and spend some more time on invading the south?


Some screenshots to show my situation:


The graph on the left shows Gaul total military (green) vs my military (red). Clearly they have a looot more.




Any help welcomed!

[Steuner]

Firstly, if you have been using the script since the beginning and you're at 260 AD, you've forgot to start the script again and the date bugged out.

The pre-marian units only get reset when you destroy the cartheginian land and build imperial palaces on their land (their original land that is).

In the beginning it takes a while to break through, the best part is (seeing as you got freaking 38000 denarii!!) to make legions!

I've got 25 legions and I can advance really fast (I'm using 5 legions to attack Spain/Portugal at the moment so that'll give a blitz-kind of effect, even though I play with the SPQR script).

Never auto resolve battles! They are always long and sometimes boring, but you can't afford to auto resolve as you'll loose too many units! Play the battles yourself, loose around 300 men and kill around 3000 and you're good to break through. Be on the offensive, destroy the two big armies up north and then attack Patavium and Medionalum. Go for the offensive and BUILD NEW LEGIONS so you can cover more ground !

[Landorin]

Firstly, if you have been using the script since the beginning and you're at 260 AD, you've forgot to start the script again and the date bugged out.

You mean loading it when I load my savegame? Might have forgotten that somewhere indeed. Why is it game over soon?
edit: ok I just read that the game does end at a specific date (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=376587) so it really would mean game over.

I didn't know this at all. So even with the normal date, what's the sense and fun in a rather "slow playing" mod if I can't play as long as I want? I am a turtle player and I think even the vanilla game even allowed me to continue playing. I don't wanna win, I just play for fun.
Is there no way to play as long as I like generally (with or without script)?

Be on the offensive, destroy the two big armies up north and then attack Patavium and Medionalum.

From what I read, conquering these towns would trigger the Germans attacking me. Wouldn't that make things much worse? Currently, holding my northern line of defense is already a big struggle.
I don't even know what the Germans are like but having 2+ battles per turns is already tiring enough.

[themrwho]

You are right, initial pre-reform troops are not strong enough, therefore it is wise NOT to be a neighbour of Germans early on, but there's no loss in delaying this, because even after the reforms they will welcome you with the same warmness.

I remember CA's reasing behind putting a time limit on the game engine - they explained this such: [BTW this is not a copy&paste quote but me practicing my great language skills and re-writing] "As we have to include many troop units / 'forces' (countries/nations/whatever you call them) we have to define the beginning and the end otherwise it will be too much of a task to add every single unit from every 'age'". << edit: oh I remembered, it's called a 'faction'.

So their reasoning was something along these lines. which makes sense to me. For example, I like civilization (the game) though I do not like to see catapult units destroying marines (or tanks or airborne units etc.) I don't even want to see catapults and marines on the same screen, maybe it's just me but feels wrong. From this perspective CA did a good job.

Dear CA, you have had your kudos, now please increase the unit size, actually while this is a dream, let's make it big, please free the source code. I can't imagine what would LT do to that in 6 months.

[themrwho]

@Landorin,

And don't worry to much about it, I assure you, you will have enough time playing 215BC to 260AD with 4PTY.

If I am correct, 215 to 0 = 215 years
0 to 260 = another 260 which in total makes 475 years.

Multiply that number with four turns per year = 1900 turns.

Now keeping on mind that in SPQR:TW you cannot simply "End turn" without actually thinking and possibly fighting a 30+ minutes battle...

Let's talk about this when you finish your first 900 turns and have only a thousand more to go...

[themrwho]

Search for LT's post on it but very basically build stacks of troops and put them next to the border to show who's the boss. That will NOT stop them but will slow them down so battles will not be that frequent.

[Steuner]

You are right, initial pre-reform troops are not strong enough, therefore it is wise NOT to be a neighbour of Germans early on, but there's no loss in delaying this, because even after the reforms they will welcome you with the same warmness.

I remember CA's reasing behind putting a time limit on the game engine - they explained this such: [BTW this is not a copy&paste quote but me practicing my great language skills and re-writing] "As we have to include many troop units / 'forces' (countries/nations/whatever you call them) we have to define the beginning and the end otherwise it will be too much of a task to add every single unit from every 'age'". << edit: oh I remembered, it's called a 'faction'.

So their reasoning was something along these lines. which makes sense to me. For example, I like civilization (the game) though I do not like to see catapult units destroying marines (or tanks or airborne units etc.) I don't even want to see catapults and marines on the same screen, maybe it's just me but feels wrong. From this perspective CA did a good job.

Dear CA, you have had your kudos, now please increase the unit size, actually while this is a dream, let's make it big, please free the source code. I can't imagine what would LT do to that in 6 months.

We're playing a different game here... I've not once lost a battle against the Germans (M/M), whilst being outnumbered, fighting in the snow and woods... The only "barbaric" tribe that ALMOST managed to defeat me, were the Dacians seeing as they had too much men for me...

What am I doing wrong? It's too easy to beat the German tribe for me to be fair :s They're a little harder than the Gauls but not by much

[themrwho]

Yeah, basically read 260 AD as game over. Hope you've good backups of savegames...

[Landorin]

Oh, so the time limit for the campaign is hard-coded then?
As far as I remember, in vanilla the game ended at a certain date but I could still choose to continue, it just didn't count as victory then - does that work with SPQR too (unless I remembered this wrong)?
EDIT: just read themrwho's post. I see your point, it takes a lot longer to end a turn than in vanilla indeed. It just feels good if you know you can take as much time as you want.


So what do you guys do to not have to face gaul 2+ battles each turn? Or is this all normal and you guys also sit there for many days to set a foot outside of Italy?

[themrwho]

...
EDIT: just read themrwho's post. I see your point, it takes a lot longer to end a turn than in vanilla indeed.
...

Yeah it's a REALLY long game play indeed. If this was a stand-alone game, it would definitely be the biggest bang for the buck. Every now and then in the news we hear about another isolated WWII Japanese soldier still playing SPQR 4 rescued by US marines. Some of them did not believe it was post-260 AD.

PS: That's a pre-v.4 era, old picture, the guy actually looks a bit older now...

[themrwho]

I don't know what's happening but I'm really talkative today (or post-ative). Assuming I am right with the calculation above, and bringing in another very broad assumption that one will fight a 30 minutes long battle in every 4 turns, that would make
1900 / 4 = 475 turns with battle of 30 mins...

475 x 30 = 14250 mins or 237.5 hrs

if you have 3 spare hours to SPQR:TW every day 7 days a week (who's paying the bills ) that will give you 79 days of non-stop action. Until you're finished LT will have the new map released so you can give it another try

[Landorin]

Thanks, I'll try that! Once I forced myself going back to an earlier savegame.

One more thing about the time limit. Is that enough time for the Marian reforms, too? From what I read, it takes a loooong time till you get them, I don't wanna end up finding out that I get them like 20 turns before game-over.

[themrwho]

In some mods this was random, here it is not. BTW there's a chance you may never get them at all.

It's a programmed response behaviour, so fulfill the requirements ASAP and and have them ASAP or never do that and never get them. Up to you. more info here.

But don't do like that guy, if you cheat three times SPQR:TW blows up the computer and the house. Really someone who had it told me.

[Landorin]

I hope those marines pointed him to SPQR 7.


Anyways, I may or may not be lucky!

My previous savegame shows 185 B.C. and is far more recent than I thought.

However, how do I find out whether this savegame is screwed? I ended the turn without activating the script and the year counted down normally to 184 B.C., shouldn't it have jumped now to 250 A.D. or so?

[czePowerslave]

Keep the script on all times.
And about Gauls. Dude. In my 6.4 campaign I killed 569k Gauls in 222 battles. So meh, 1-2 battles per turn, I laugh at ive fought up to 4-5 even later on. Good luck tho!/

[themrwho]

@Landorin,

That's the thing, you do not know until you see the seasons go crazy and start wondering if LT modeled global warming 2000 years early, but then you see 260 AD and you can be sure.

Regarding Gauls, cze's post reminded me of this thread and the beautiful summer of '86 a long one but you may want to have a look as it's fun.

[themrwho]

No idea, perhaps you're just too good. (Natural Born Commander trait)

[themrwho]

Can you take some screenshots of that Germanic armies you 'easily defeat' with pre-reform troops, battle start & end screenshots. Ideally in a new thread.

[Steuner]

No seriously though, it annoys me... I'm not cheating, I'm playing like EVERYONE else just placing the Hastati in front, with Principes on the 2nd line and Velites as a 3rd line. I got Triarii on the front (usually 2 on the right side, 1 on the left side) with Slingers on right side and my Cavalry on left.

The only thing that destroyed my army once were 700 spartans who ripped my legion apart... It's cool to win, for sure, but if you realise that the game SHOULD be harder when playing on M/M, you're wondering if you're not wasting your time... Anyone got a clue what I'm doing wrong? ='(

Edit: http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/4761/loyalty.jpg

Why don't I have Loyalty rings ?

[themrwho]

These are subjective topics of course, though I don't think this 'game' is easy at all. The limitations of the mod as a software is way too easy. "Difficulty attached to realism" comes from LT's house rules and your limiting house rules if you have any. Keeping on mind that long term goal means, at least for me, conquering the whole map, this game is anything but easy. It's not even average, it is difficult (but fun).

If we're talking about battle in 1 single combat context, (if you have fresh pre-reform troops Germans) it should not be too easy also.

You can win battles BTW, being an average or less skilled player, I do win battles against Germans with green pre-reform troops too. However, winning single battle or two is not a success if you'll eventually start losing armies and regions (Napoleon mode). Last time I tried invading Germany with pre-reform troops it was too much of a hassle, I turned back, realizing why imperial legions is necessary.

Also if you don't use house rules and go arcade, you can kill 10 or 20 German armies using one single unbalanced legion. Just put slingers/archers on top of an Everest like mountain, let them come and die. 1 coffee break = 1 german army dead.

EDIT- or use the bridges as ancient machine guns.

So if you want challange and realism you can use house rules (assuming you are not using them or at least all of them). If you are using HR and if it's still easy for you, I have an additional rule on top of LT's rules. I think not many people here do this but, I use numbered legions for pre-reform legions too. Therefore if I have Taras, I can raise only 1 'heavy' legion from there, and 1 'aux' legion. Now in terms of troops this does not have ANY difference at all in pre-reform armies, but I am taking it as if there's an imaginery main / aux legion difference. In fact I sometimes feel sorry for those aux legionnaries getting paid much less and sometimes nothing when they die, for greater risks, but that's how sentimental I am

So in the end, if you play with this style, you can raise a heavy legion from Taras and it's buddy 'aux' legion, they together travel to Munich in god knows how many turns, and they lose so many men in 1 or 2 or max 3 battles and now journey begins to all the way back to Taras. Their real 'fighting time' reduces to around 10% or max 20% of their active 'service time'. With this method armies real strength is being reduced much more and I end up with the necessity of carefully planning each century (e.g.: a stack of only 4 units chasing bandits), legion, army ('heavy' and it's aux buddy), task force (2 or more legions grouped together to achieve a specific goal e.g.: taking east iberia). No more clicking on sprites and taking losses unnecessarily because that will mean, in real life, I will have to spend next 2 hours (seems small but a huuuge 120 minutes that is) moving that units back to Taras and replenish and bring back to Munich for more lager.

To be honest I am not always using minimum 20 turns before replenishing legions rule because if I add that one too, I may end up without real Roman armies (romans fighting for republic and later on for Caesar) at all. PS: I don't like mercenaries too much and try to limit their use.

Now if you want a challange try playing like this, it will be a bit more difficult to fight Germans, or even Rebels if they're at the other side of the map, because even if you kill them in 1 turn, 'going there + 1 turn battle + coming back' will keep 1 legion busy for so long. [=therefore you have to strategically appoint policing legions / garrisons as they did in real history] For me all these turns the 'game' to 'simulation' and remembering the release date of the engine (2004) I don't think this will get old anytime soon. LT did an amazing job.