The crusader states campaign

[equinoxsolar]

Ive had just attempted a cursader campaign on vhard/vhard and have found it exaclty as descirbed by an earlier poster: impossible.

The FC declare war within 5 turns of capturing kerak. Your economy is small and any attempt at expanding it in the beginning impossible due to the constant need to keep a half stack (minimum) to defend jerusalem. Your northern forces cannot link up with those in the south as they are constantly intercepted when travelling by land. Moving them by sea is the only option i can think of but have been attacked by rebels and had my ship sunk.


So, i tied allying with FC, and to my amazement it works. This is probably more annoying that the impposibility of the players task. Surely this is not intended? This alliance is 100x more ludicrous than England and France becoming allies in the period.

I feel as though i am cheating by allying with the FC, but i can think of no other way to survive.

Playing the game on SAVAGE AI

[RollingWave]

yes, allying with both egypt and turks until the crusade start getting to cairo is about the only way you can pull it off in that setting.

[gfortune]

Please check out my Kingdom of Jerusalem submod, under the submod area. I have historically modified the crusader faction correctly and have balanced it for longer survival. The main issue that once you attack a rebel town or castle you will need to before hand ally yourself with all parties in the area. The historical characteristics of all the other factions in the area, may be the real issue, because at the time of taking Jerusalem during the Baron's Crusade, the other factions were in such disarray they could not mount a major invasion due to their own internal problems. I think that the are few of the cities or castles need to be under rebel control or reduced in size and number buildings, to re-balance the situation.

[ninja51]

I actually never allied with either. I just attacked a number of the rebel settlements with only a general and one or two units of average troops and took them once they sallied out. I moved all remaining mercinaries and troops to attack damascus and in only 7 turns due to leaving a fair garison in kerak and jerusalem I was able to get myself having 7 or so settlements and was bringing a fair profit in. Once the fatamid actually did deside to attack I just moved my mercinaries down and moved up some of my weaker garison troops to discourage the turks. Difficult, not impossible

[dominion]

I always play Gracul's AI, VH/VH and BYG IV, i'm talking about the early era campaign, so.....first time i played CS i was wiped out in ten turns. But look at the map now http://www.twcenter.net/forums/attac...0&d=1284062007, so don't say it's impossible. My advice is pull back your northern troops from Antioch and Edessa (just leave one cheap unit in it) and sail them to jerusalem....in the mean time let the garrison of jerusalem take Kerak. After that your ship sailed to jerusalem...and now launch an all out attack on the Fatimids and wipe them out (Gaza and Al Aqaba first)...it will be hard but how longer you wait how harder it will be to take out the Fatimids. Don't waste your effort on the rebels because they act as a buffer cause the Byzantines and the Seljuk turks will focus on them when attacking in your direction. If you conquer the rebel settlements first it will be very hard to survive cause you'll be at war with three major factions. So focus on wiping out the Fatimids, once that is done your western flank is relativly secured. BTW in my last game as CS i wiped out the Fatimids by turn ten, the ironie about that is that i was wiped out by turn ten in my first game playing CS. And if you should wonder, no cheating. The Late Era campaign is the hardest but played that just once. Good luck with your campaign.

[RabidSheepLegion]

lol dizzam! turn ten, you killed all their family members, thus into rebels? or they just didn't advance as far as they could of?

[dominion]

lol dizzam! turn ten, you killed all their family members, thus into rebels? or they just didn't advance as far as they could of?

I attacked them by turn three...by turn four i took Al Aqaba and Gaza. One army stack back on the fleet (the one that took Gaza) and sailed to Damietta. The army that took Al Aqaba marched to Cairo by land. Turn after that Damietta was taken. A part of that army (very small sailed to Alexandrie and took it, their garisson was very small in Alexandrie). The main army(the one from Al Aqaba and the other units from Damietta) went to Cairo. Two huge battles took place there with...as you mentioned...a lot of generals on both sides in the army....Fatimids lost apparently all their generals and were wipped out. Offcourse for a blitzkrieg you need spies for immediate assaulting and taking settlements. There is no time for siege. What i didn't mention in my previous post was that i was fighting rebels the next 20-25 turns and that was very hard too.
In my opinion wipping out Fatimids by turn 25 is very reasonable, the campaign i described is not always possible...it depends on variable factors i suppose

If you're looking for a real challenge CS and Khwarezmian are....especially in late era campaign.

[RabidSheepLegion]

lol i know, try scotland from early... they have horrible units IMO and just get owned by cav almost everytime lol

[barcamartin]

Copying my posts from another thread;

My first (and so far only) 6.3 campaign is with the Crusader States. VH/VH, Savage AI, Real Recruitment, Watchtower-thingy, Longer Assimilation. (Edit; Sorry about the long post, I got carried away..)

I have had very little trouble so far, even though the war with the Fatamids demanded several tough battles. I can't quite remember, but think I started by grouping whatever troops I could in the north, taking Tortosa. At the same time I used my Faction Leader to take Kerak, then Acre. As I combined my forces to take Damascus, the Fatamids besieged Jerusalem with a few units of Spear Militia. I fought off the siege with my small garrison and the Prince, and once my King returned south from Damascus (leaving it in rebel hands) the doom of Saladin and his countrymen was sealed. In a massive siegebattle for Gaza, I defeated the Egyptian Crown Prince and a very large army, and acquired a superb recruitment center (compared to Kerak and my cities). Note: I occupied all the settlements I took, and had Low Taxes everywhere.

After Gaza I moved to and took Al-Aqaba, splitting the Fatamids in two halves. Take care of your three units of Armenians of Cilicia (starting merc archers), they are awesome! Simply devastating! After Aqaba, I focused on the Nile Delta, fighting several large battles, winning all. Damietta gave me another recruitment center, the sack of Cairo a nice influx of cash, and Alexandria is a generally nice city. At this stage, the Fatamids were broken, and I split my forces, sendign an army under the Prince's command north, to take Alleppo (mission by the council) and Adana. The Turks had taken Damascus, so that was out the question. Both the Adana and Aleppo garrisons were wandering around, leaving the castles weakly defended. The wandering armies were strong, especially the Armenian one, so I left them until later.

At this stage, I just pushed south on both sides of the Red Sea, all the way to Luxor, and stopping at Medina. At that stage, I signed a ceasefire and alliance with the Fatamids, leaving them with Benghazi and Mekka, in return for 10,000 florins.

I should note I allied with the Byzzies on turn 2, and was determined to honour that alliance. The Turks besieged Edessa with a token force, which I fought off. I swiftly struck at Damascus, taking it and uniting the Levant under the Crusader banner once and for all. My Prince then led a sweep into Anatolia, defeating several armies in the area around Ceasarea, while the Byzzies launched several failed assaults at the fortress. I didn't want to commit troops to an actual siege of Ceasarea, so my Prince marched north of it, slaughtering whatever Turks he found. I managed to take Ankara, which I gifted to the Byzzies, and then Ikonium, which I kept.

At this stage, I could focus all my efforts on the East, meeting the advancing (but hesitant..) forces of the Turks. I took Diyarbakir, Mosul and Qarisiya without much trouble, until my border met the Khwarezmian at Baghdad.

Sometime around there, as I had just started preparing for the inevitable conflict with the Shah, the first Jihad was called on Jerusalem. This would be at turn 40 or something. The Moors and Shah joined, and soon the Shah had two armies at Jerusalem. By now though, Gaza was really able to pump out troops, and I had a healthy supply of both Knights of Jerusalem and Hospitallers, aswell as the useful Armenian Cavalry.

Now I'm at turn 47. Two new Jihadi armies have replaced their fallen comrades of the first wave, but in the east Baghdad and Tabriz have already fallen to Crusader forces, and Alamut and Basra are soon to follow. I have yet to see any Moorish troops though, and I signed a ceasefire (very generously..) with the Seljuks.

So yeah, that is the short(?) version of my rise to power as the Crusader States. Without much trouble, and never having and significant money issues. I guess I was lucky that the first Jihad didn't come until I was an established empire already, but on the other hand the first Crusade was called on turn 40 or something aswell, on Vilnius (which my King is besieging as we speak).

I'm thinking the key to my success are low taxes and chivalrous generals allowing heavy growth, meaning better buildings, better troops and more money. Obviously, I have won lots of battles against superior odds, but that's no special achievement.

This is all I can think of at the moment, this post is far too long already. Hit me with questions, since I honestly have had quite an easy ride so far. I have had lots of fun, and I really like the Crusader States. Key for me has also been to purposefully waste and sacrifice large numbers of militia, levies and mariners in order to spare my starting high quality units.

As an addition to my earlier post;



As you can see, Jihadis! Shouldn't be an issue though, I am going to wait until they lay siege and assault, since some of them are pretty Horse Archer-heavy. If they just hang around, I'll finish perfecting my stack in Gaza, and smash them to pieces. Also, solid economy, and pretty vast territorial holdings.

I had no issues at all. Sure, you need a lot of Heroic Victories, but that's why we play Very Hard, isn't it? From that point on, it's been very straight forward. Tune in to my AAR to follow the path of my Crusader States!

[equinoxsolar]

Thanks for the tips guys. Ive been playing iwth the grim reality submod and the extra cost burden of nobles has rendered it impossible to recruit any new units until turn 12. I am in constant negative for the first 8 or so turns and can only get out of debt around this time..

I managed to survive this long by using existing units and those gained by completing some missions.

Ill have another go tonight, now that i know it can be done.

P.S i love the fact that crusades now cost alot of money. Before they were pretty much an 'I win' button. I reallydioslike teh fact i can ally with the muslim factions so early on. Kills all immersion. I play without allying.

[Spoon]

I've played CS on VH/VH with Savage AI and it isn't that diffecult. Just rush the fatamids at turn one with all your forces. One army should attack Gaza and the other one at Cairo. Move your garrison from Edessa and most of Antioch to Alexandria and Damietta. I sold Edessa to the papal states and allied myself with the turks. At turn 5 the fatamids were defeated( I killed their last family member in a battle at Cairo which made Al Aqaba and Luxor rebel settlements)

[Ichon]

Thanks for the tips guys. Ive been playing iwth the grim reality submod and the extra cost burden of nobles has rendered it impossible to recruit any new units until turn 12. I am in constant negative for the first 8 or so turns and can only get out of debt around this time..

I managed to survive this long by using existing units and those gained by completing some missions.

Ill have another go tonight, now that i know it can be done.

P.S i love the fact that crusades now cost alot of money. Before they were pretty much an 'I win' button. I reallydioslike teh fact i can ally with the muslim factions so early on. Kills all immersion. I play without allying.

Historically there were several temporary alliances and betrayals around the Crusader States so a temporary alliance is actually not that bad. If you'd rather play without one it might increase difficulty moderately in the first part of the campaign but usually an alliance with Fatimids only holds a few turns anyway so it does not actually play out hugely different in most games.

Use the money in the CS treasury wisely as you've noticed there will be debt for several turns due to BGR costs. You might consider dismissing some of the mercenaries if you can't use them quickly. Any archers are more valuable because until Kerak or Gaza is captured CS does not have access to decent archers. Due to the low religion levels in most of the regions CS controls its difficult to recruit in the early turns so your initial spending is really important. Fatimids start the early campaign controlling few regions but capture rebel regions quite quickly.

If you get into a war vs Fatimids early consider sacking everything of theirs you can reach except Gaza. If you can take and hold Gaza that makes a huge difference and even giving back Damietta and Aquaba or whatever you manage to capture for temporary peace is handy so you have time to convert Gaza to a level you can recruit from.

There are several different ways to play CS early era and be successful. The easier is to ignore the north for the most part, perhaps capture Tripoli before moving the forces there to Jerusalem but that region is surrounded by rebels so the Turks or Byzantines won't usually be a threat for many turns and even once they go on offensive the terrain favors CS with the bridges near Antioch and 2 cities within 1 turn reinforcements by ship. Almost 1 turn by land even if you have a good general with +movement traits.

Keeping Jerusalem is especially important in BGR because that is your main income until Antioch is developed a bit more or some other cities are captured. Ballista towers there will keep it safe with a 1/2 stack garrison from anything except a Jihad which means even with the low money CS should be able to keep one 1/2-3/4 full field army busy.

Using a navy is important however you end up playing CS if you are using BGR as you don't have the income to march many armies overland. The first 10 turns or so there are quite many pirates/rebel fleets but they thin out and move away rather fast usually. If in doubt just get a cheap ship and move it towards Greece or Crete to draw them and send a 2nd ship with your armies aboard down the coast. Once CS has Tripoli and Acre there are plenty of harbors to rest in and attacks by fleets are less of a danger.

A CS with Jerusalem at the center surrounded by Acre, Kerak, and Gaza should be able to hold vs both Fatimids and Turks even if temporarily losing the north. It is easier to take out the Fatimids first since they are more concentrated and a more immediate danger than the Turks or anyone else but I did try a campaign where after capturing Gaza and Kerak only defended against them. With 2 castles as the frontlines defense is usually rather easy against the weak roster Fatimids have access to early in the campaign.

If you can hold out to turn 30 or so CS should be getting access to better units with Edessa Guards and Hospitaliers available in cities and the castles supplying numerous other useful troops.

Missions are also quite useful... to make it easier you can often empty a city and receive a mission next turn to garrison it- then just move the troops back in and free troops at the Capitol. Personally I think that is unnecessary unless you have terrible luck in the missions your get.