What are my "allies" doing?

[jamin620]

I have been playing a Silvan campaign for a while now, and I am astounded at the utter ineptitude of every other good faction.


The dwarves are at war with Rhun and the High elves and Arnor are at war with isengard. And yet, they are seemingly incapable of making any progress against either faction. This is especially egregious in the case of Arnor and the Elves, who are in prime positon to re-take bree (lost to a crusade) from Isengard or finish off Sauromon's holdings in the former Rohan states. Dealing wave upon wave of Mordor Stacks made up of Troll Catapults and Armored Trolls and Uruks is bad enough, without having to deal with the occasional Uru Kai army that occasionally wanders east to suprise me.

Anyway, to the point. Why does it seem that all the good factions are so passive? They have armies that they are sitting on.

Also, I am holding steady against mordor around Tirith anun and Edoras, but my flanks are totally exposed to Rhun and when Mordor eventually calls a crusade against one of my cities I will be really boned. Have you ever gotten to the point in a campaign where you are doing ok but see no realistic way of advancing?

[Death Blade]

damnO_O

[Cold]

imo factions are almost always to passive, unless they are next to you, in that case they almost always atack you:s very hard is a B**ch

[Mikail Mengsk]

If you expect the AI to really helping you, you are in trouble.

Expect yourself to have to rescue them, instead...

[Stabbyman]

rohan in particular are basically lobotomized chimps.
i saved them from isenguard gave them back edoras and held back mordor with one hand while mutilating gundabad with the other. and theres rohan with 6 stacks sitting at gineard grinning like a tard and picking they're noses. the evil factions appear to be the only ones who know what they are doing. oh allow me to correct myself there. the dwarves actually attack gundabad and rhun and they mysti mountain... sooo they at least are not doofus'

[menawati]

rohan in particular are basically lobotomized chimps.
i saved them from isenguard gave them back edoras and held back mordor with one hand while mutilating gundabad with the other. and theres rohan with 6 stacks sitting at gineard grinning like a tard and picking they're noses. the evil factions appear to be the only ones who know what they are doing. oh allow me to correct myself there. the dwarves actually attack gundabad and rhun and they mysti mountain... sooo they at least are not doofus'

Rohan just need a kickstart sometimes. The best way imo is give them chance to grow east. Last campaign I took Thoronburg and gave it to them....all their dormant stacks suddenly woke up, crossed the river and within 10 moves they were kicking Rhun to bits and suppressing Mordor. Also it took the heat off the Silvans and they recovered.
There seem to be a number of important locations which, if you can hold or give to your allies, can make a huge difference.

Another way to help allies survival is kick the enemy where it hurts. If you can afford it send raiding parties to sack their important settlements - just get in, sell everything and move on. The old 'sail down to Umbar' move is pretty well known but smashing up those coastal cities really does cause Harad to crumble. Even if you can't afford an extra large army you can smash up the smaller settlements with half a stack which usually avoids the garrison script anyway. If you want to postpone the war with them after your rampage just send your diplomat - the 'ceasefire' option may show 'generous' if you have scared them enough, if it shows 'demanding' just give them one of the settlements back that you have ruined as part of the deal.

I'm not helping the dwarves ever again though, took 3 settements back for them and 5 moves later it's 'give us 2000 gold, accept or we will attack' Next campaign I'm going to get Erebor and give it to Rhun.

[Avatar]

I have to agree with the ineptitude of Rohan. In my game they insist on besieging Isengard with poorly-built stacks and causing yet another bunch of elite uruks to pop out and slap them back. Whats worst is that they queue up so many of these poor stacks themselves, that I cant even get my own troops into siege range to try and manually resolve the situation. In the end I've decided to just leave them to it and turn north for Gundabad instead.

[Isildur's Heir]

That Dwarf settlement must be annoying you big time

[dannyalex]

Question:What are my "allies" doing?
Answer :Nothing

[oheels]

My allies always seem to help out..
In my current, very prolonged campaign as Arnor, I was being pushed back by the Orcs of the Misty Mountains and Isengard, to the point where Isengard had sacked Bree and started besieging Annuminas.
I was ready to give up, but as I had been playing this as my first campaign since the new TW release I held on a little longer, and the high elves retook 4 of my settlements from Isengard, then the Dwarves and Silvan Elves pushed west and destroyed the Orcs of the Misty Mountains.
They saved me and now I have taken Isengard, and am slowly pushing south towards Minas Tirith to relieve Gondor who is slowly losing against Harad and Mordor. Meanwhile the Dwares are pushing Rhun back slowly but steadily, and the Silvan Elves are pushing Mordor back towards the black gate, I believe they only have 1 or 2 settlements left before they reach it.

Maybe you should just wait a bit and they will help out like they helped me

[ObbaJobba]

oheels, that's what I dream of happening when I play as any "good" faction. But, definitely glad to hear of at least one success story. You say "very prolonged campaign", around how many turns is that and what difficulty?

[oheels]

oheels, that's what I dream of happening when I play as any "good" faction. But, definitely glad to hear of at least one success story. You say "very prolonged campaign", around how many turns is that and what difficulty?

'Prolonged' in that I've been playing it as my first campaign since 2.0 came out, but only playing it an hour or two a week

It's turn 156, I made a nice little screenshot of the map for you
I sent a full stack down at Harad and those stupid elephants killed me
My new Gonder Relief stack is going to have 4 units of balistas

[Mikail Mengsk]

Dwarves are the only exception to the rule: they are usually aggressive. THe problem is that sometimes they are aggressive toward good factions too

[Narhijan]

Dwarves are the only exception to the rule: they are usually aggressive. THe problem is that sometimes they are aggressive toward good factions too

Actually this is one of the most important factors that convince me to use RR+RC.

I really dislike when good factions become "corrupted by Sauron" and go to war against the others good fellows...

It's so against lore...

Btw, never let Mordor take Gondor, NEVER!

[Varjon]

Actually this is one of the most important factors that convince me to use RR+RC.

I really dislike when good factions become "corrupted by Sauron" and go to war against the others good fellows...

It's so against lore...

Btw, never let Mordor take Gondor, NEVER!

But isn't the main point of TW games and mods to shape your own history? If we would take something like that out of game the result would become more predictable and all playthroughs would feel similar.

[Narhijan]

But isn't the main point of TW games and mods to shape your own history? If we would take something like that out of game the result would become more predictable and all playthroughs would feel similar.

Good point, but I prefer follow the main lore, just my taste, maybe becouse I'm a Tolkien fan since I was 7 years old.

I dont like to see goods vs goods in TATW.

To avoid this often I've to use some diplomacy trick to bring back the deserters to the right side of the war.

[The Edain]

Wow the evil factions are really going to twon in you're campaign!

But isn't the main point of TW games and mods to shape your own history? If we would take something like that out of game the result would become more predictable and all playthroughs would feel similar.

Varjon?! Is that you! My god I havn't seen you around for a long while!

[Stario]

I drastically reduced the money bonuses the AI receives. The AIvsAI garrison script I've also edited to give each AI an equal number of cities that fire of the script. I also reduced the number of cities with AIvsAI garrison script to major fortresses/citadels only. The intention originally was to reduce AI stack spam but it also had a surprisingly positive effect on the survival of each of the AI factions. Now each AI; even Rohan, can hold its own. I am currently having a great turtle campaign as Eriador. Don't count for the AI to help you though.

[Liamar]

Actually this is one of the most important factors that convince me to use RR+RC.

I really dislike when good factions become "corrupted by Sauron" and go to war against the others good fellows...

It's so against lore...

Btw, never let Mordor take Gondor, NEVER!

So against lore?
So you mean that Elves and Dwarves wouldn't cut eachother throats if they had an opportunity? Or that if one of the factions felt save against the Darkness, they wouldn't mind sacking helpless bastards?
In middle earth there are no 'pure' good and 'pure' evil... Well Orcs are pure evil, but there is nothing that would stop 'good' factions to go to war with each other.

[Narhijan]

So against lore?
So you mean that Elves and Dwarves wouldn't cut eachother throats if they had an opportunity? Or that if one of the factions felt save against the Darkness, they wouldn't mind sacking helpless bastards?
In middle earth there are no 'pure' good and 'pure' evil... Well Orcs are pure evil, but there is nothing that would stop 'good' factions to go to war with each other.

Actually, after the Five Armies Battle and the death of the dragon Smaug, Dale and Dwarves are friends, allies and commercial partners, and the relations between Silvans and Dwarves becomes much better (relations between Silvans and the Men of the Lake was always good).

You know the "Quest for Erebor" script?
This is the goal of Gandalf.

And the same is for Eriador/High Elves and so on.

Maybe not all the good factions are "pure" good, but they figth no more each others, except against the Sauron's forces.
This is the lore, for good or ill.

They are still divided, maybe suspicious (maybe too strong or well organized in this game), but this is the story.

Probabably a mod at the beginning of Third Age, or in the Second or in the First Age, can be very much different!

Regards