Defending a walled city

[Boriak]

I've been playing RTW for a year, half of that with EB. Through this time I have never had to defend a walled city. I always sallied or waited for reinforcements but it always killed me seeing my troops dwindle from waiting. Now I've begun to play a Makedonian campaign and in 260 BC I find myself besieged in Pella by a full stack of Epirotes, led by Pyrrhus himself. Thankfully he left his elephants back home.

I have a full stack defending Pella: 4 archers, 4 slingers, 3 Hoplitai Haploi, 3 regular hoplites, 3 levy phalanx, 1 Galatian shortswordsmen, 1 Hellenic skirmishers, an a FM. Finding myself in a numerically inferior position and no chances of reinforcements, I decided to see and experience a siege from the receiving end. Pyrrhus built two siege towers, two rams and four ladders. When he assaulted, I put all my missile units on walls along with most of my infantry. I heard that phalanxes are poor on walls so I let them remain on the ground, defending the town center.

Now, my battle CTDed halfway so I will have to do it again. I did however made some serious casualties with my missile troops even though the Epirotes all came at my walls diagonally, presenting their shield side.

The question I want to ask is about infantry on walls. Most of my infantry was in a seriously bad shape by the time the game crashed. Where one siege tower came, unloading a unit of Thureophoroi, I had Hoplitai Haploi defending. My unit was right in front of the tower so the enemy cut my unit in half when they came. Should I have put that unit sideways so they block the enemy's path only from one way?

What kind of infantry is best to defend walls? I have mostly spear carriers because Makedonia in the early stage has no sword infantry.

Also, does aiming archers at the towers/rams actually destroy them or are the arrows fired from towers the decisive ones?

Any info on defending a siege would be useful at this point.

[Magic Man]

Fire Arrows are still good for destroying Rams/Towers.

I don't know if this is luck, or whatever, but ive always had much more luck in dry places like the middle east. If its raining, for example, dont even bother firing at them. Except for firing at the Ram if they have a buttload of Cav.


As for the wall fighting, ive found troops with swords are generally much more effective. So your Galatian swordsmen would have done sterling work there.

And as for the unit getting split in half by the assaulting troops, its much better to have two units defending against a tower, with a gap in the middle for the intial attackers to spill into. That way they get attacked on both sides, still, but your unit won't suffer any penalties for being split in half, and a bunch of your men won't be pushed off the wall. Ive found i lose at least twenty - forty men from just falling off the walls when they get pushed back if i place them directly in front of the tower.



All in all though, ive found defending the streets/city centre to be much more effective than defending the walls, so its really up to you.

[Anubis88]

You should keep your phalanxes guarding the doors. If the enemy get's hold of your main gate, the gates will open, and the entire enemy army will go through... In that position a Phalanx can be most usefull.

Fire arrows do damage against siege towers and Rams, that's for sure. Of course rams are much easier to set on fire then towers.

The best units to defend the walls are definetly armoured swordsmen with high lethality. There's another very special unit imo... The axemen (of course also rhompaia and falx dudes) are great against armoured units on walls. Cappadocian, Anatolian and eastern axemen can defeat even Roman legions on walls, since they are Armour Piercing... Not to mention Thorakitai and other Successor armies...

They are cheap and very strong, so i always used the extensivly... Their greatest weaknes is that they are not armoured, but that's much less important on walls then on field battles.

Oh, and another tip. Slingers rule! Archers are only good at taking down rams and towers, but the infanry killers are definelty slingers

[athanaric]

You should keep your phalanxes guarding the doors. If the enemy get's hold of your main gate, the gates will open, and the entire enemy army will go through... In that position a Phalanx can be most usefull.

If you're really mean, you can arrange three phalanxes behind the main gate, like this: \_/ (the gate is on the upper side, the phalanx pikes facing inward)

Fire arrows do damage against siege towers and Rams, that's for sure. Of course rams are much easier to set on fire then towers.

Siege towers also fire an inordinate amount of machinegun rounds. If you want to set them ablaze, your archers should shoot from a position where the tower can't face them, i.e. from the sides. This is recommendable with Cretan Archers because they have a long range and are very valuable (they're decent swordsmen too).
Alternatively, you can have a unit of Toxotai directly facing the siege tower try to torch it. Toxotai are the weakest archers in the game and will, apart from their anti-siegecraft task, serve as cannon fodder to distract the approaching tower from your melee units that are likely more valuable.

The axemen (of course also rhompaia and falx dudes) are great against armoured units on walls. Cappadocian, Anatolian and eastern axemen can defeat even Roman legions on walls, since they are Armour Piercing... Not to mention Thorakitai and other Successor armies...

Most axemen also carry javelins, which are great against infantry that approaches with a siege tower or ladders.

Oh, and another tip. Slingers rule! Archers are only good at taking down rams and towers, but the infanry killers are definelty slingers

You can also use slingers on the walls to snipe the enemy general, if he comes into range. That may cause a rout...

[Turtle Hammer]

I'm a big fan of putting a Phalanx box at gates or bridges too, but occasionally it can backfire. Inspite of having equal frontage, I've found they can still be pushed back by superior numbers of phalangites and even cavalry and subsequently they lose formation. I had this happen to me against Arche Selukia once and became very frustrated with the way my phalanxes kept getting driven back from the gates. I even tried having them in front of the gates with their backs to buildings to minimise flanking, but their formation was always broken up and they switched to swords rather than maintaining a phalanx. But it does normally work if you have enough of them.

As for taking on towers, leave your walls clear infront of them as much as you can. I run the defending units up into position after the tower's at the walls to avoid being mauled by it's ballistas. Archers I tend to just bite the bullet and keep in place as their fire arrows are useful enough to justify the sacrifice.

Also, if the enemy sieges you from a corner, when you sally they will normally change position and march their whole army within bowshot of your walls. In my current Baktria campaign I've killed about 350 men per turn with about 4-6 units of good archers (Heavy Persian, Caucasian etc) doing this, sallying, then exiting once they're out of ammo. Even if you can't get them from the walls, you can usually safely march out if the enemy is weaker in missile troops(even if they're not, cavalry can drive them off), then march back in to exit. I've defended settlements from armies that'd win if they stormed by wittling them down over several turns like this dozens of times in my Baktrian campaign.

Another option to consider is defending the central square and leaving your walls clear. The enemy has no advantage from it's towers, and your units will not rout unless pushed out of the central square, in which case you're probably losing that battle whichever way you cut it. I've found it much easier to defend sieges against Romans like this, since phalanx troops are nowhere near as effective on walls as they are in a normal battle. By fighting the battle in your own square, you maintain the advantage of the phalanx and are able to fight a field battle in effect, and as I mentioned your guys will stick at it no matter how bad it gets. Also, the enemy will often arrive piecemeal allowing you to carve them up with relative ease.

Hope this is useful!

[Katsumoto]

What I always do I just set up my troops along the roads leading to the central square, preferably with phalanx troops, and then just let the enemy come in. Usually they just go along one or two roads, so even with far less troops you can usually hold them off or inflict heavy casualties. If you've got cavalry or skirmishers you can use them too when most of the enemy's troops are commited; just send them round and attack from behind. I've found this the most effective option when defending cities, large or small.

[Boriak]

I've sallied many times. Most of the time I put my archers on the walls so when the enemy runs alongside them, they get decimated by the missile troops.

With this siege I had the intention of cutting the enemy down with missile troops and holding the walls as long as possible, then retreating to the town center. I feared that by abandoning the walls initially they will arrive to the town center too strong for me to defeat even with the infinite morale at hand.

I have limited infantry in this siege, mostly they are spear infantry. I do not have axemen of falxmen, only one unit of Galatian shortswordsmen. The foe is attacking with Thureophoroi and Illyrian spearmen.

[athanaric]

I have limited infantry in this siege, mostly they are spear infantry.

Spearmen are better on the ground, but most of them are decent enough on walls. Phalanx troops suck on walls though.

I do not have axemen of falxmen,

Get yourself a unit of mercenary Bastarnae ASAP. They should be available in Greece. Later you'll get your Agrianian specialists via factional barracks...

only one unit of Galatian shortswordsmen.

They're good on walls. Mostly against unarmoured units though. Have them face the Illyrians if possible. Or skirmishers or phalangites, should the AI use these to man the towers.

The foe is attacking with Thureophoroi and Illyrian spearmen.

Illyrian Spearmen are relatively easy to kill with arrows. Try to shoot as many as possible. Thureophoroi are broken and require special care, preferably from your strongest troops (Classical Hoplites on the walls, phalanx on the ground). You should also try to decimate them with slingers beforehand.


Peltastai are great on walls, btw. They have very decent swords for a skirmisher unit. Plus their javelins are even better from above. You should use Hoplitai and Hoplitai Haploi to pin the assaulting enemy units on the wall, then sneak up from behind with the Galatians or Peltastai. It's good to have local superiority at some points (tackling an enemy unit with two of yours), while merely holding off other units at other points (until the first enemy unit routs and you can shift your troops).

[FriendlyFire]

What I always do I just set up my troops along the roads leading to the central square, preferably with phalanx troops, and then just let the enemy come in. Usually they just go along one or two roads, so even with far less troops you can usually hold them off or inflict heavy casualties. If you've got cavalry or skirmishers you can use them too when most of the enemy's troops are commited; just send them round and attack from behind. I've found this the most effective option when defending cities, large or small.

Yup, this is a great way to heroic victories in city defenses . Yesterday my Koinon Hellenon defenders used this tactic to hold Athens in 271 BC, despite being outnumbered 3:1 by two Makedonian armies that came over the walls. I killed 3800 out of 4000 Makedonians, and lost only 300 of my 1300 troops.

Additional tips: Make sure your phalanxes or hoplites are in guard mode, carefully sized to block off the entire street, and hit Backspace whenever they start fighting (so they don't tire themselves out). Ideally, start your general in the square so that everyone gets his morale bonuses. Your biggest dangers are heavy melee infantry whittling down your lines, or heavy cavalry pushing them back, but it sounds like the original poster doesn't face either of these threats.

Also, I like to put missile troops on the side walls, away from where the assault will come in. Once the AI has captured the gate, run inside, and brought all its troops down off the walls, I send the missile troops along the walls to recapture everything again. With stone walls, the AI troops inside the town will now be mown down by the towers firing into their backs. In yesterday's battle, the enemy took both front and back gates, but I then recaptured the front gate. This meant that when the full stack assaulting from the front finally broke, the routing enemy troops ran blindly for the back gate, and had to go through my lines to get there - the slaughter was terrible

[Steforian]

Ya, i cant stand wall battles anymore. I was defending as Koinon Hellenon, and 10 minutes in they pushed most of MY Spartans (generals guard) off the wall, and then after i knew i lost the battle, my general fell off the wall too...
I retried the battle whilst defending the city square, and won.

[athanaric]

Ya, i cant stand wall battles anymore. I was defending as Koinon Hellenon, and 10 minutes in they pushed most of MY Spartans (generals guard) off the wall, and then after i knew i lost the battle, my general fell off the wall too...
I retried the battle whilst defending the city square, and won.

Never put Generals on walls, they'll only suffer from the Lemming syndrome.

[Turtle Hammer]

Never put Generals on walls, they'll only suffer from the Lemming syndrome.

I learned this the hard way when I had Celtic Mercenary generals doing a Casse campaign. Suffice to say, I'm glad I learned it with mercenery generals and not FMs. Still though, losing them to Germanic Levy Spearmen?

[Anubis88]

What do you mean that the Thureophoroi are broken?

[athanaric]

What do you mean that the Thureophoroi are broken?

Too much armour in relation to their historical appearance and in relation to their stamina (the former is official, the latter is my opinion).

Of course they're easy enough to defeat with an advanced army, but the OP only has a limited selection available.