Explanation of Calvins Roman Leadership System?

[AgentGB]

@ AgentGB
Another problem with such a system is that characters are limited to a maximum of 8 ancillaries. For most of your family members, that would be way too restrictive.

It sounds great, but just don't do ancillaries. A big problem in EB was that ancillaries of provincial governorships could not be assigned to Senators because their ancillaries filled up by the age of 18.

Traits are definitely the way to go to make more military commands.

Thanks for the reply guys! ah i see now! hmmmmmm dam....

[SMoVader]

Will there be a patch etc. for the traits?

[dvk901]

Will there be a patch etc. for the traits?

Yes, there will be. I'm working on it with another fellow.

[mp84]

Yes, there will be. I'm working on it with another fellow.

boy that first patch looks like it's going to be a very interesting one, starting to get a bit anxious, lol. (just a bit, lol)

[Siegfriedfr]

Yes, there will be. I'm working on it with another fellow.

Imo simply focus on that. Other things can wai.

[apple]

Imo simply focus on that. Other things can wai.

No we don't work like that. We try to address as much as we can in each patch.

[dvk901]

There are six areas we want to address in the patch currently regarding traits:

1. A better battle system that awards Command Stars in some kind of battle\merit system (Jon Arbuckle is working on this.)
2. Getting the 'Conqueror' and Senate Awards traits working the way they should. (I have this fixed, hopely, but it's a matter of plowing thru a hundred triggers fixing them all)
3. Something is amiss with the Economic\Depression traits, so I have study that issue.
4. Correcting the issue of characters being adopted in Roman campaigns by a father of one Class, and still keeping their old Class...ie, a Patrician adopting a Plebeian and he remains a Plebeian, etc. This one is going to be a bear to fix, because it involves
not only the class of the character, but also the careers, his eligibility for offices, his military career, etc.
5. Make adjustments to the triggers that assign 'Tribunus' (Pre-Marian Generals) and Legatus or Legatus Legionus (Post-Marian). I'm not fond of the way this is working, so I want to 'fix it'.
6. Remove some of the 'nicknames' as people call them, in particular, 'Pious'. It's OK for a guy to be pious, but there's no sense changing his name over it. These should be rare, IMO.

[AgentGB]

There are six areas we want to address in the patch currently regarding traits:

1. A better battle system that awards Command Stars in some kind of battle\merit system (Jon Arbuckle is working on this.)
2. Getting the 'Conqueror' and Senate Awards traits working the way they should. (I have this fixed, hopely, but it's a matter of plowing thru a hundred triggers fixing them all)
3. Something is amiss with the Economic\Depression traits, so I have study that issue.
4. Correcting the issue of characters being adopted in Roman campaigns by a father of one Class, and still keeping their old Class...ie, a Patrician adopting a Plebeian and he remains a Plebeian, etc. This one is going to be a bear to fix, because it involves
not only the class of the character, but also the careers, his eligibility for offices, his military career, etc.
5. Make adjustments to the triggers that assign 'Tribunus' (Pre-Marian Generals) and Legatus or Legatus Legionus (Post-Marian). I'm not fond of the way this is working, so I want to 'fix it'.
6. Remove some of the 'nicknames' as people call them, in particular, 'Pious'. It's OK for a guy to be pious, but there's no sense changing his name over it. These should be rare, IMO.

thats brilliant! the traits are a special feature to this mod that makes it quite unquie to any other mod ive played!? just a small question, you mentioned "3. Something is amiss with the Economic\Depression traits, so I have study that issue." i dont think anyone as encountered the same problem as i have with them, and im wondering what triggers them or what could prevent them from not happening at all?

when i played my first 0 turn campaign as roma, the economic traits worked like a charm, you feel rewarded for your clever balance in management with military & building as such, & vice versa with the depression, even when i had faction leaders with bad traits, if the economy was booming(in which all build queues are full), i still got the global postive traits no problem!? (i have noticed some people saying that if the faction leader as negative traits, if the economy is booming or not, it will still note it as a depression, which it hadn't for me?)

Althou when i had started my 2nd fresh roma campaign on different settings H/VH, as M/M was a bit to easy for me, i seems to have lost the economics traits altogether? lts a shame, because i cant firgure out why? i can list all the variations if you think it would help with any troubleshooting, but they just don't seem to be active at all in this campaign, althou im a small minority with this problem, (the only one i think?) so i am trying to troubleshoot this myself? But if i could list my variations between the two campaigns, both pre setting wise (such as unit size/difficulty) before starting the campaign, and one i thought off recently (does rome have to be built to the top governed building for these traits to kick in at all?) bit gutted tbh, because i cant quite firgure out why they aren't active this campaign? Its a nice achievement for the players, but i seem to be the only one with a this problem, with no global economic traits, being that there totally non existent for me in my new campaign, (currently 150 + turns into my 0 turn campaign), and no sign of them, althou i still havent built my top tier governor building for rome, as im constantly depopulating it, where as in M/M on unit size large, it wasn't a problem? could this be what affecting it for me??

[dvk901]

thats brilliant! the traits are a special feature to this mod that makes it quite unquie to any other mod ive played!? just a small question, you mentioned "3. Something is amiss with the Economic\Depression traits, so I have study that issue." i dont think anyone as encountered the same problem as i have with them, and im wondering what triggers them or what could prevent them from not happening at all?

when i played my first 0 turn campaign as roma, the economic traits worked like a charm, you feel rewarded for your clever balance in management with military & building as such, & vice versa with the depression, even when i had faction leaders with bad traits, if the economy was booming(in which all build queues are full), i still got the global postive traits no problem!? (i have noticed some people saying that if the faction leader as negative traits, if the economy is booming or not, it will still note it as a depression, which it hadn't for me?)

Althou when i had started my 2nd fresh roma campaign on different settings H/VH, as M/M was a bit to easy for me, i seems to have lost the economics traits altogether? lts a shame, because i cant firgure out why? i can list all the variations if you think it would help with any troubleshooting, but they just don't seem to be active at all in this campaign, althou im a small minority with this problem, (the only one i think?) so i am trying to troubleshoot this myself? But if i could list my variations between the two campaigns, both pre setting wise (such as unit size/difficulty) before starting the campaign, and one i thought off recently (does rome have to be built to the top governed building for these traits to kick in at all?) bit gutted tbh, because i cant quite firgure out why they aren't active this campaign? Its a nice achievement for the players, but i seem to be the only one with a this problem, with no global economic traits, being that there totally non existent for me in my new campaign, (currently 150 + turns into my 0 turn campaign), and no sign of them, althou i still havent built my top tier governor building for rome, as im constantly depopulating it, where as in M/M on unit size large, it wasn't a problem? could this be what affecting it for me??

There may be times when those traits don't show up, because, believe it or not, the conditions for these are more 'harsh' or stringent than people may believe. In order for 'Depression' traits to appear, for example, your faction leader must meet a set of conditions that 'paints' him as a pretty inept and bad leader. The Noble, Troops, and People must all be highly disatified with him, or hate him, or be calling for his removal before this trait starts kicking in. Likewise, people will have to really admire and love their leader for Prosperity to kick in. Otherwise, the economy will be just 'balanced', shall we say, and neither of traits appears. So very good, and very bad leaders are supposed to trigger these.

What's NOT working is that some characters made heirs and subsequently becoming leaders are carrying along with them traits they shouldn't have....like the two above mentioned. The Faction Leader isn't supposed to have 'Prosperity' or 'Depression'...only the Governors under him. Nor should any character other than the Faction Leader have 'love, hate' traits. Also, I need to ensure that all Governors back out of traits they inherited from the Leader if that leader dies. Sort of 'clear the slate' so things start over. It's a very new system based on the work done by 'The Sloth'...who originally came up with the concept. I LOVED it, because it offered ways to do other things beyond what he had originally intended.

[AgentGB]

There may be times when those traits don't show up, because, believe it or not, the conditions for these are more 'harsh' or stringent than people may believe. In order for 'Depression' traits to appear, for example, your faction leader must meet a set of conditions that 'paints' him as a pretty inept and bad leader. The Noble, Troops, and People must all be highly disatified with him, or hate him, or be calling for his removal before this trait starts kicking in. Likewise, people will have to really admire and love their leader for Prosperity to kick in. Otherwise, the economy will be just 'balanced', shall we say, and neither of traits appears. So very good, and very bad leaders are supposed to trigger these.

What's NOT working is that some characters made heirs and subsequently becoming leaders are carrying along with them traits they shouldn't have....like the two above mentioned. The Faction Leader isn't supposed to have 'Prosperity' or 'Depression'...only the Governors under him. Nor should any character other than the Faction Leader have 'love, hate' traits. Also, I need to ensure that all Governors back out of traits they inherited from the Leader if that leader dies. Sort of 'clear the slate' so things start over. It's a very new system based on the work done by 'The Sloth'...who originally came up with the concept. I LOVED it, because it offered ways to do other things beyond what he had originally intended.

Thank you very much the reply! im sorta taking mental notes on the trait system and other parts of gameplay! I really hope you get round to giving the trait system a overhaul, it seems vry complex, but i am beginning to notice a pattern, althou some things i can't explain, i think the political general trait seems to occur if you autoresolve a battle? which seems more commonly gained this way, althou i have just gained it for no apparent reason when using generals purely as military generals with no autoresolves what so ever, but seems alot less rare in this case.

Also another trait which i think a bit unnecessary is the "careless" trait, i think it gained if you sit an army idol next to an enemy army, seems quite a harsh trait when your using the landscape to you benefit and trying to lure the enemy into an attack, not that i hog bridges, but the high ground. But again im not sure about the triggers,

I think my current economic situation must be in limbo and thats why im not gaining the economic traits, i think it may be to do with me constantly depopulating rome, but ill continue to play this campaign out as im thoroughly enjoying it!

thank you very much for taking the time to answer me!!! will look forward to seeing any preview/news on the trait system! Really does give the added depth for such an in depth game


edit:: if a general gains the political general trait it is possbile to get rid off it!! just keep him out in the the field and fighting, his currently a 6 or 7 star general! porbably my best general and its been well deserved,
He was a 2 star General but when i click next turn, he seemed to have lost some negative traits and just jumped right up to a 6 or 7 star general cant remember, just one of the neg traits for his military role was political general,
iill post a screenshot tommorrow!

[toluas]

Let me just throw in three weird "coincidences" concerning traits:
I had - and it stayed that way - a faction leader with very bad economic traits, hated by everyone and quite inept, but about half my governors had "our lands prosper". If I understood the team's comments correctly, those traits are leader-driven?
I had more than one, at least four or five, biological sons of patricians being either equestrian or plebeian. And no, I'm not talking about adoptions.
All my generals possess the "political general" trait - except for one who's been sitting all his life in Caralis doing nothing...No matter if the general has ever been inside a city or just in the field, they all get "political general" - and they do get it mostly after winning a battle.

[SMoVader]

Thanks for the answer and your hard work

[AgentGB]

edit:: if a general gains the political general trait it is possbile to get rid off it!! just keep him out in the the field and fighting, his currently a 6 or 7 star general! porbably my best general and its been well deserved,
He was a 2 star General but when i click next turn, he seemed to have lost some negative traits and just jumped right up to a 6 or 7 star general cant remember, just one of the neg traits for his military role was political general,
iill post a screenshot tommorrow!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2DIepwlS9o (quality of vid should go up once its processed)

Ok he was a two star general to start of with, he should have had more stars, thou certain traits such as the political general trait nerf him by two stars, which i got when i auto resolved a battle with him just once, one turn after processing the marian reform, i noticed he had lost that trait, gaining his two stars back, plus getting another two stars for the legatus somthing rank, plus another star, which i think was nerfed by another trait?

anyway, this is my 7 star general, just proving political generals are reversible!?

[Bosje]

well i was into a 1-turn campaign which may mean it's all skewed, perhaps

i edited the traits file, putting ; in front of all the marian triggers and those other ones as indicated a page or so back on this thread...

i had a bunch of armies with generals who were either tribune or centurion and they all went to legatus legionis and they all got the political general trait.

so basically, every single general has +2 command from his rank, and -2 command from being a political general.

this was after letting the new (edited) traits file run its course for 2 or 3 turns.
also, most of my characters were suddenly 'disloyal'

so yeah, that's pretty useless

[Nota']

Noob question I'm sure but:
What makes a faction leader hated or loved? I have a great leader, who is hated by his troops and the people, and has the leader hated trait. Just wondering, what did he do to deserve this???
Another question(not specific to the romans), what triggers the lands are prospering, or economy declining traits? Because in my selucid generals all get economy prospering while my income is small and my romans get nothing when every city is pumping out money because i have the money to improve them.

[apulum]

after the marian reforme:-will the family members have the pretorian general guard or will they have the same general guard as before ?(will i have to copy something from the important stuf folder?)
- what will trigger the apereance of a legion emblem in the characters traits(retinue) http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=211436 like this.

[apulum]

after the marian reforme:-will the family members have the pretorian general guard or will they have the same general guard as before ?(will i have to copy something from the important stuf folder?)
- what will trigger the apereance of a legion emblem in the characters traits(retinue) http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=211436 like this.

could someone please answear my questions?

[Drowsy]

after the marian reforme:-will the family members have the pretorian general guard or will they have the same general guard as before ?

They will, but you'll need to retrain excising family members.

what will trigger the apereance of a legion emblem in the characters traits(retinue) http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=211436 like this.

Beta feature i think, everyone hopes for its return, must be complications otherwise we'd see a sub-mod for it.

[terzer]

It would be awesome if the Legatus can gain this retinue!

[Alexander V. Suvorov]

I think in RS II that is no longer available.