Elven Factions Re-Development

[Louis Lux]

The tree idea is pretty good but I would say it's already implemented in the galadhrim design.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Should I go for a brand new design for the bodyguard like I'm doing with the high elves or just modify the current galadhrim design a bit?

I could accentuate the overall leaf/tree design theme for the bodyguard unit, could be really cool.

[Dutch-Balrog]

Should I go for a brand new design for the bodyguard like I'm doing with the high elves or just modify the current galadhrim design a bit?

I could accentuate the overall leaf/tree design theme for the bodyguard unit, could be really cool.

I think you should make a new design for them, and the Tree design would be great for their armour.

[Everto]

Should I go for a brand new design for the bodyguard like I'm doing with the high elves or just modify the current galadhrim design a bit?

I could accentuate the overall leaf/tree design theme for the bodyguard unit, could be really cool.

I disagree with Dutch-Balrog about a complete rework, I find that the Galahdrim Models are fantastic, but something new could be implemented to make them stand out...perhaps something like this?

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Also, if you want ideas, I'd recommend taking a quick glance once again through the material compiled in my THREAD, created for that very purpose

On a separate note, good to hear that you're making progress, I can't wait to see what you come up with sir!

[Protestant Knight]

@ Louis Lux - why not give the Sindar bodyguard's a more First Age tall looking Helment but with a Third Age and Louis Lux twist to them

[Louis Lux]

I disagree with Dutch-Balrog about a complete rework, I find that the Galahdrim Models are fantastic, but something new could be implemented to make them stand out...perhaps something like this?

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

That was my initial idea, but it doesn't change much from the heavy silvan troops aside from the color of the cape and the addition of the hood. Recently I got thinking that there's no reason for them to be so similar .

Also, if you want ideas, I'd recommend taking a quick glance once again through the material compiled in my THREAD, created for that very purpose

I did take a look at your thread a few days back, the images I mean, and I appreciate the effort to gather all those designs and it did help me a bit with some of the designs I'm doing.

[Eddie.S]

I suggest you take a look the unit models from Lotr:Tw they have some realy nice designs to take inspiration from. By that im not suggesting you should rip them of just take a peek for inspiration

[Makus]

honestly the current silvan heavy units are a little too shiny and have bulky armor components. They look cool though. The silvan heavy units should resemble the film's galladrahim more closely, and perhaps something could be done with the sindars to give them more of a high-elf/grey look, seeing as they're not true wood elves.

Possibly redo the heavy silvan units to be closer to the film in appearance and keep the models for the sindar to differentiate, plus it ould make more sense as TATW's models are more ornate than those in the film

Also, do you have any pull in removing silvan heavy spearman altogether? In "weapons and warfare of middle earth", its stated that the shield doesn't fit the silvan fighting style, nor would the spear. The main focus was the bow with the realization that swords would be necessary to clean up what arrows can't

[Louis Lux]

honestly the current silvan heavy units are a little too shiny and have bulky armor components. They look cool though. The silvan heavy units should resemble the film's galladrahim more closely

This will be my starting point:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Don't know how they currently look but they're not that shiny in this case.I will reshape and rescale them a bit so they don't appear as "bulky".

perhaps something could be done with the sindars to give them more of a high-elf/grey look, seeing as they're not true wood elves.

Sindars are still very much connected to the woods. If the BG is supposed to be Sindar I will definitely go for grey/silver but keeping with the woodland theme.

Possibly redo the heavy silvan units to be closer to the film in appearance and keep the models for the sindar to differentiate, plus it would make more sense as TATW's models are more ornate than those in the film

Do explain, because they're practically identical to the movie depiction.

Also, do you have any pull in removing silvan heavy spearman altogether? In "weapons and warfare of middle earth", its stated that the shield doesn't fit the silvan fighting style, nor would the spear. The main focus was the bow with the realization that swords would be necessary to clean up what arrows can't

I guess I could but I'd need a good reason for it.

[Makus]

This will be my starting point:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Don't know how they currently look but they're not that shiny in this case.I will reshape and rescale them a bit so they don't appear as "bulky".
Sindars are still very much connected to the woods. If the BG is supposed to be Sindar I will definitely go for grey/silver but keeping with the woodland theme.
Do explain, because they're practically identical to the movie depiction.
I guess I could but I'd need a good reason for it.

I think its just the arms that bother me. its very close though, but you can see the difference between the TATW models and the hooded model someone posted earlier. Not a big deal really. It might also be the green and the daylight throwing me off, I tend to think of them as more autumn-like (browns, bronze, reds...darker tones) I think its on the BG where the front of the legs is super shiny, so my apologies.

heres the quote from the book I'm referencing (a good read for the team, seeing as it covers the tactics/aesthetics/logic behind the arms armor and soldiers of PJ's films). Its called "The Lord of the Rings: Weapons and Warfare" by Chris Smith. I know its not strictly "canon" as someone pointed out, but its still quite useful.

"the reason for their not taking and shields are many and various: first, because they were Galadrahim, or Tree-elves, a shield was unnecessary and burdensome, especially since most of their attacks came from within the tree canopy; a shield would have proved tiring to carry over a distance without rest...and, last, the combination of their weapons of choice and their fighting style would not have allowed for carrying a shield as well- the Elven sword was wielded two-handed, as was the bow"

Most of the reasoning had to do with the elves being hurried to Helm's Deep and relying on the walls for protection, but it seems like spears and shields are just contrary to the silvan tactics. It would also help to differentiate a little more between the two elven factions.

[Ngugi]

Spears are very basic and I doubt any army would dispense them. And for a faction that mostly resides on woods mounting their weapons on wooded staffs makes a lot more sense than using swords exclusively.

(...) Most of the reasoning had to do with the elves being hurried to Helm's Deep and relying on the walls for protection, but it seems like spears and shields are just contrary to the silvan tactics. It would also help to differentiate a little more between the two elven factions.

Sticking too spearmen are true to Tolkien;

"So it was that Bard's messengers found him now marching with many spearmen and bowmen" (about Thranduil)
"Their spears and swords shone in the gloom with a gleam of chill flame, so deadly was the wrath of the hands that held them." (about SE)
"Behind the arrows a thousand of their spearmen leapt down and charged." (about SE)
/the Hobbit

Though, if one wanted to bring forth other arms axes could be an idea;

Beleg Strongbow, chief of the march-wardens of Thingol, brought great strength of the Sindar armed with axes into Brethil; and ...with Men took an Orc-legion at unawares and destroyed it
/Silmarillion

'By all the signs, Captain Shagrat, I'd say there's a large warrior loose, Elf most likely, with an elf-sword anyway, and an axe as well maybe...'
/RotK, The Choices of Master Samwise

[Ngugi]

double post, remove

[Vifarc]

In "weapons and warfare of middle earth", its stated that the shield doesn't fit the silvan fighting style, nor would the spear. The main focus was the bow with the realization that swords would be necessary to clean up what arrows can't

W&WoME is not canon, but you're right about the MAIN focus: Shields should cost much and long to get for the silvans, and spear should be for some special units (as the General one?).

[Joe_Chip]

Also, do you have any pull in removing silvan heavy spearman altogether? In "weapons and warfare of middle earth", its stated that the shield doesn't fit the silvan fighting style, nor would the spear. The main focus was the bow with the realization that swords would be necessary to clean up what arrows can't

In "The Hobbit" the troops of the Elven King fight with spears.
I just wanted to point this out.

[Louis Lux]

In "The Hobbit" the troops of the Elven King fight with spears.
I just wanted to point this out.

Spears are very basic and I doubt any army would dispense them. And for a faction that mostly resides on woods mounting their weapons on wooded staffs makes a lot more sense than using swords exclusively.

[Hercules18]

I did a custom battle today, 4 gondor fountain guards vs 4 high elf whatever there weakest sword and shield unit is called, and the elves almost won? Thisis extremely unbalanced too me and was wondering if stats will be tweaked? Even militia shouldn't stand a chance against full plate elite gondor unit. I did this test multiple times by the way and almost always came out the same

[KnightsTemplar]

I did a custom battle today, 4 gondor fountain guards vs 4 high elf whatever there weakest sword and shield unit is called, and the elves almost won? Thisis extremely unbalanced too me and was wondering if stats will be tweaked? Even militia shouldn't stand a chance against full plate elite gondor unit. I did this test multiple times by the way and almost always came out the same

How you set the Guards up?
The Pikemen are not very good against Swordsmen.

[Hercules18]

How you set the Guards up?
The Pikemen are not very good against Swordsmen.

i unclicked phalenx formation and just charged there ranks and lett them duke it out, if you look at the stats elven unit actually has higher attack and they a tier 1 troop. i know the elves are badasses but this is not very balanced.

[son of romans]

I understand you used Fountain Guard in phalanx and with hold position,this is a mistake,use tham corect and there are very few units who can win against tham.

[mondpeiler]

I've a little complaint about the silvan-elves heavy units...
they look good so far, but the "helmet" ?!
this is more an ornate diadem than a helmet. with the holes in it and the missing neck-guard, they are - regarded in a military wise - almost useless. a waste of ressources.

let the models, as they are in general, but please change their head-gear to real military usable helmets.

thx

[Louis Lux]

That excerpt is only referencing the galadhrim and in a particular position such as attacking from the tree canopy which does not apply to the game. And a lot of their units use a bow/sword combo.

There is a axe unit planned.