The CIA's Alleged "secret" Prisons

[bigfootedfred]

A US civil rights groups says it is taking the CIA to court to stop the transportation of terror suspects to countries outside US legal authority.

The American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) says the intelligence agency has broken both US and international law.

It is acting for a man allegedly flown to a secret CIA prison in Afghanistan.

US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice says she'll comment on recent reports of alleged CIA prisons abroad before starting a visit to Europe on Monday.
Ms Rice has said she will provide an answer to a EU letter expressing concern over reports last month alleging the US intelligence agency was using secret jails - particularly in eastern Europe.

'Extraordinary rendition'

"The lawsuit will charge that CIA officials at the highest level violated US and universal human rights laws when they authorised agents to abduct an innocent man, detain him in incommunicado, beat him, drug and transport him to a secret CIA prison in Afghanistan," the ACLU said in a news release.

The release identified the jail as the "Salt Pit".

The group did not provide the name or nationality of the plaintiff, saying only that he would appear at a news conference next week to reveal details of the lawsuit.

The ACLU also wants to name corporations which it accuses of owning and operating the aircraft used to transport detainees secretly from country to country.

The highly secretive process is known as "extraordinary rendition" whereby intelligence agencies move and interrogate terrorism suspects outside the US, where they have no American legal protection.

It has become extremely controversial, the BBC's Adam Brookes in Washington reports.

Some individuals have claimed they were flown by the CIA to countries like Syria and Egypt, where they were tortured.

The US government and its intelligence agencies maintain that all their operations are conducted within the law and they will no doubt fight this case vigorously, our correspondent says.

He says they will not want to see US intelligence officers forced publicly to defend their actions and they will not want to see one of their most secret procedures laid bare in open court.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4494246.stm

[Francisco Montana]

The ACLU is suing the CIA?



In the famous words of Mad TV, "And Yerrr Surrpriiiissed?!?"

[bigfootedfred]

The ACLU is suing the CIA?



In the famous words of Mad TV, "And Yerrr Surrpriiiissed?!?"

errr.

no..

try reading the artcile.

its the "American Civil Liberties Union"

[Francisco Montana]

:laughing:

I think I know that. I stopped giving them money back in the 90s, Jr.

I suppose you still watch the Communist News Network, too?

[bigfootedfred]

its seems your only intention here is to make a mockery of the thread and spam it to death.


if you have nothing to say on the subject please dont bother.

this came from the BBC, and is about the alledged CIA prisons aborad.
i dont live in america, i live in the UK.

ive never heard of "communist news network" nor do i care.
now please stop trying to de-rail the thread.

its hardly "civitate behavoiur" now is it?

[balleny]

Seems to me the ACLU is only protecting American values and liberties (as they have been written down by the foundingfathers in the constitution). So no need to be upset, Lord Alameda.

[Francisco Montana]

OMG bigfootedfred.

I'm making my point, you just don't like it.

The ACLU is so far out there, it's not even funny anymore.

You posted the fact they are sueing the CIA, and I said, And you're surprised with a comic parady of what the American Civil Liberty Union has become. The Anti-Christian Lawyers Union.

Listen Bigfoot. Rather than get your nickers in a bind and attack my character, how about you stick to topics you have even the remotest clue about.

Seems to me the ACLU is only protecting American values and liberties (as they have been written down by the foundingfathers in the constitution). So no need to be upset, Lord Alameda.

That's your opinion. My opinion (if this thread will allow me one) is that the ACLU is tearing the very heart out of American Society.

And I'm not alone on that belief, by any stretch of the imagination.

[bigfootedfred]

OMG bigfootedfred.

I'm making my point, you just don't like it.

The ACLU is so far out there, it's not even funny anymore.

You posted the fact they are sueing the CIA, and I said, And you're surprised with a comic parady of what the American Civil Liberty Union has become. The Anti-Christian Lawyers Union.

Listen Bigfoot. Rather than get your nickers in a bind and attack my character, how about you stick to topics you have even the remotest clue about.

right then.

well, lets just forget about the secret jails that happen to violate intenational law shall we?

i have ablsoultey no idea what your "point" was, as it was completly irrellevant to the topic.
if you had actully read the artcile, you would have realised that.

no, suprisingly i dont follow the "ACLU" they are footnote as far as im concered.
when you have somthign to say about the topic and issues rasied.
post again.

thankyou.

[Francisco Montana]

Everything I've posted is relevant to either your topic or your comments to me.

I've had enough of your tactics. You've been leveled on the debating floor, so say "Stop bothering me Alameda" (like you always do)

Maybe my input is simply too far over your head to understand.

But that's enough of your attacks on me and saying I'm spamming or trying to hijack. (ironic, I keep addressing the thread, you keep calling me names and whinning) I've had it.

That's simply amaturish. If you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen.

[bigfootedfred]

Everything I've posted is relevant to either your topic or your comments to me.

I've had enough of your tactics. You've been leveled on the debating floor, so say "Stop bothering me Alameda" (like you always do)

what on earth are you talknig about?
we havent debated anything yet....


you went completly OT, banging on about the ACLU....

what exactly is your "point"
secret jails, tortue and illegal activites dont amtter, becuase you dont like the ACLU?

[Justinian]

Come now, Bigfootfred and Alameda, there's no need to get your knickers in a bunch. Remember we're all friends in the end here, and if you get angry just leave the computer and cool off for a few moments.

The thread was closed because of Fred's request, and now it is opened again, once again at Fred's request.

[bigfootedfred]

The thread was closed because of Fred's request, and now it is opened again, once again at Fred's request.

Thankyou.

now the topic.

the secret jails.

if you want to discuss the legtimacy of the ACLU or whatever, fine.
but do it on another thread please.

i really couldnt care less about the organisation, having first heard of it today.
and for the record i dont watch "communist news network" or anyhting like it. so save the the veilded insults please.

[Francisco Montana]

Come now, Bigfootfred and Alameda, there's no need to get your knickers in a bunch. Remember we're all friends in the end here, and if you get angry just leave the computer and cool off for a few moments.

The thread was closed because of Fred's request, and now it is opened again, once again at Fred's request.

It's knickers in a bind...don't steal my material Justinian.

So now Bigfoot has threads closed if he's losing a debate.

I'll let my words here stand and be judged.

I did nothing other than be a little cute with the ACLU pic, but the point was absolutely valid and pertainent.

I don't mind debating Bigfoot, but this is all becoming a pattern with him.

I have, in fact, bent over backwards in the past to assure him this was politics and not personal (although the sentiment was not mutual)

if you want to discuss the legtimacy of the ACLU or whatever, fine.

Get over yourself, what do you think I was doing on my very 1st post. (before U spun it all out of context)

(If I've overstepped my bounds here mods, I apologize, but this is principle. I was on target and he just didn't like the fact I knew more about the ACLU than he did...that's not the Mud-Pit I've grown to admire so much,...we have higher standards)

[bigfootedfred]

So now Bigfoot has threads closed if he's losing a debate.

i had it closed because it had veerd complety Off topic.
as i said, i really dont give a flying feck about the ACLU.
ive never heard of it before today.
the topic, is the secret jails, the torture, and the violations of international law.

and again....what debate? i dont recall a debate of any kind

I did nothing other than be a little cute with the ACLU pic, but the point was absolutely valid and pertainent.

again...i have no idea what that point was.

I have, in fact, bent over backwards in the past to assure him this was politics and not personal (although the sentiment was not mutual)

so your jibes at me over "communist news network" wernt personal in any way?

fine...you dont like the ACLU...we'll leave them out of it then
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4400728.stm

the topic still remains the same.

the thread was titled the way it was, becuase that was the title of the news article

[danzig]

i had it closed because it had veerd complety Off topic.
as i said, i really dont give a flying feck about the ACLU.
ive never heard of it before today.
the topic, is the secret jails, the torture, and the violations of international law.

Er no the topic of your post is Civil Rights Group sues CIA over secret prisons hence posting about the ACLU is fitting for the thread...and if you never heard of the ACLU before then its probably why you dont understand LA's posts. The ACLU isnt viewed too well by alot of Americans because they selectively pick what 'civil liberties' they wish to defend and ignore others that doesnt fit their motivations, imagine the Red Cross picking disasters to assist in based on the political belief of the people injuried for a good example. Case in point an ACLU member was removed after he moved to defend the border patrol militia in Arizona based soley on the ACLU leadership disagreement with the views of the militia not on whether they had the RIGHT to engage in the act. So its no suprise that they sue over a *report*, before even a conclusion is reached on whether it happened or not even by the EU's own investigation.

Its a shame too ACLU has gone from its communist beginings moving into a respectable organization that even defended neonazi's right to hold a rally (a very unpopular move on their part but you know sometimes defending someones civil rights isnt popular) back to what it is today, a mockery that selectively picks which civil rights suits its purpose.

fine...you dont like the ACLU...we'll leave them out of it then
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4400728.stm

the topic still remains the same.

Cant leave them out if they are part of the whole point of the article.....if you wished to discuss soley the prison accusation you could have done so without quoting an article that focuses on a different point.

[Polemides]

Regarding the thread title, discussing the validity of the ACLU is perfectly on topic. In fact, all of this talk of this "secret prison" and the torture of this specific individual is alleged. There is no solid evidence that any of it is true.

Personally, I find it ridiculous that the CIA would torture people, and then release them so they could go and blab to the world. Wouldn't it make a lot more sense if they just killed the prisoners after they got what they wanted out of them?

[Polemides]

Again, is there SOLID proof that they exist? If you have sources, then please provide them, as the onus is on you to do so.

[Francisco Montana]

in an attempt to salvage the thread.
evidenlty it didnt work.

What are you talking about bigfoot, danzig just gave you a complete plateful of discussion absolutely on target.

I'm begiinning to think you don't come here for debate but rather for validation.

Sorry we aren't willing to just lay down for you.

I'm really taken back by this whole episode.

I love the TWC, but I need to step away for a while maybe.

[bigfootedfred]

What are you talking about bigfoot, danzig just gave you a complete plateful of discussion absolutely on target.

firslty, i was'nt talknig to him.

secondly he was posting about theaclu, which was usefull to me as it was sutff i did not know.

however, i dont see how A: i was going to "debate him on it"
or B: how it was discussion realted to what i wanted to discuss.

ok topic title not that great. could have been better, who was i to know that the ACLU would be the thing that would be jumped on here.
i wanted to discuss alegged secret jails.

as descibed here
http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/11/03/eu.cia/

diffrence being, that link is older, the source i posted was from today.

im terrbily sorry that you find me some kind of terrible burden.
all i wanted to discuss was the topic i have repatedly siad.
you claim you arent being personal, but everything you post here has seemed like a delibrate personal attack to me.
in fact, most of what you have posted here seems to me like a directed assualt agasint me

all i wanted to do was discuss this topic.

[danzig]

Pfft relax both of you, not worth it to get so bend out of shape over this. The fact remains though until more information comes out about the accusation there isnt much to discuss other then people who will say they believe it and people who say they dont. I mean really what is there to comment on other then accusations. Until EU releases some info on their investigation combined with response by US, Poland, Romania and the other countries our insight on the accusation is rather limited. And lets be honest here, even if they did happen my guess is we wont really know the truth because its an embarrassment, to the EU that it happened under their nose with their member states, to the countries who are accused of hosting it violating their own laws as well as to the US as another act it engaged in that it should have known better. My guess is nothing major will come of this simply because of that. As generally is the case in issues like this the truth tends to be in the middle, not what the accusation claims and not completely innocent as those who are being accused of it claim.