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Thread: Don't Enlist....is this a joke???

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  1. #1

    Default Don't Enlist....is this a joke???

    Don't Enlist
    Here are seventeen reasons I think you should not enlist in the US military and join the Iraq war.
    You may be killed. Your family, friends and people who love you will have a lifetime of heartache. Any children you would have fathered will be aborted with you.
    You may be maimed, have one or more limbs amputated or lose half your face or your penis and balls. You will live the rest of your life disabled. You may be so disfigured you will never have sex again. You will be stuck with the bulk of the medical bills. Modern medicine can resuscitate badly maimed people who would have died in previous wars. This means the Iraq war is cranking out an unusually high numbers of seriously maimed people.
    Many returning from Iraq become mental basket cases unable to deal with the horrors of war and the guilt at what they have done. Friends and family reject them. They can't hold down a job. They become homeless. Look at the way American treats the homeless vets of the Viet Nam and Iraq wars begging on the streets.
    Over half the soldiers who served in the Gulf War, died of Gulf War Syndrome or were treated for it. They were in Iraq for only weeks. You will be there years. Read the fine print. Bush is keeping soldiers in Iraq for years after their contract expires. To this day no one knows for sure what causes Gulf War Syndrome.
    You will be exposed to DU (Depleted Uranium), as were soldiers in the first Gulf War. This may cause cancer later, or even more likely will cause your children and their children to be genetically deformed.
    Iraq is no threat to the USA. You are not defending your country. There were no WMDs. Even Bush admits Iraq had nothing to do with the terrorist attacks on 9/11.
    “We have no evidence that Saddam Hussein was involved with the September 11th attacks.”
    ~ George W. Bush, 2003-09-17, audio.
    The USA illegally attacked an unarmed country under false pretenses. The war is about ignoble motives such as oil and world domination. There is utterly no point is you risking your life in Iraq.

    You will be ordered to kill civilians and children. Once you are in the military, resisting is very difficult. You will be shot or imprisoned, and treated extremely badly if your conscience awakens. American soldiers have already killed 100,000 civilians, mostly children, and that was before Fallujah. You will kill them to. That is what soldiers do, kill people they are ordered to. If you don't believe me, have a long talk with some vets about their experiences. Keep in mind they won't be proud of it, and won't leap to tell you what they have done.
    “Patriots always talk of dying for their country and never of killing for their country.”
    ~ Bertrand Russell
    There is some chance you may be ordered to guard and torture POWs.
    If you are very unlucky you may be ordered to participate in the raping of young Iraqi boys and preparing kiddie porn videos of the rapes for Bush.
    The back door draft. Everyone has been kept in Iraq far longer than the agreed term. If you find it intolerable, there is no way out. You have no idea how long you are really signing up for.
    Since Kofi Annan and Boutros Boutros Ghali of the U.N. have declared the Iraq invasion and occupation illegal, you will technically be an international war criminal. This means you may at any time be arrested if you leave the country to travel in a country that subscribes to the International Court in The Hague. The USA may not forever be powerful enough to protect you from prosecution, even on home soil. Everything you do in the Iraq war is illegal since the war itself is illegal. Even if you don't kill, you are still guilty of conspiracy to commit murder, on the same principle the guy who drives the get-away car is guilty of bank robbery. You are in much the same position as a German participating in the invasion of Poland. Recall that some Nazis faced prosecution even into their 90s.
    The base pay for active duty killing people according to the goarmy.com recruiting site is $14,321 US dollars a year for a private E1. Granted there are bonuses such as housing and food, same as you would get in a civilian job outside your home city. You are liable to be shot at 24/7. That works out to $38 a day, or $1.60 an hour. If you are a private your pay does not even increase after 6 years of experience. Minimum wage at McDonald's is $5.15 a hour. You are an idiot to risk your life for such paltry pay, especially when the work has nothing to do with defending your country. Recently the military has been offering higher and higher one time enlistment bonuses. People now realise they are not signing up to defend their country, so are demanding higher and higher bribes to sell their souls. The very existence of these bonuses indicates that soliders know full well what a morally sleasy job they are signing up for. People don't need to be bribed to defend their country against a real attack.
    Iraq is a hot, pestilent, fly-blown, stinking, hell hole.
    Presuming you are a believer in punishment in the afterlife, since you will be killing innocent civilians, mostly children, you will without doubt be condemning yourself to eternal damnation. That dread will hang over your head the rest of your life.
    When you get back, your government will treat you like ****. They reneged on veterans benefits, housing, health care, rehab…
    When you return, many people will spit on you and treat you like ****. They will call you “baby killer” and “baby rapist”. You will receive ever increasing abuse over your lifetime as the horrors and injustice if the Iraq war surfaces. If you travel outside the USA, it will be even worse.
    Joining the US military is a bit like joining the Mafia or the Bush crime family as an enforcer, or plotting to murder a child. It is not something you should do lightly. You should not do it just because other people told you to, or because the ads were cool, or because it's an easy job to get. You should check out carefully who it is you will be killing and why your are going to kill them. That is your responsibility, not just the president's. Once you are in the military you no longer get to choose who you kill. You are the one who will pull the trigger. You should be sure such murders are necessary, not just that the person you plan to kill “hates America”, which may well be a perfectly rational response after what America did to him, his family and his country and no reason to kill anyone. In Afghanistan, you will find the reason to kill is to guard a pipeline for Unocal and to guard the opium crop for the Bush crime family that, through Afghanistan, now controls 87% of the world's heroin. In Iraq, you are there to steal oil for American oil companies by terrifying the locals through shock & awe into giving it up. You also want to consider the consequences to yourself. You are setting yourself up as a war criminal, same as any Nazi. Iraq is an illegal war. You are potential subject to the same Nuremberg war-crimes trials as the Nazis were. Following orders is no excuse for murder or torture. Also consider the penalty you will take on your physical, mental and spiritual health. Plan enlistment as carefully as you would any other premeditated murder of a stranger.

    I can't help but ask myself, what is this guy smoking?

    I didn't know Bush loved Iraqi Kiddie porn.

  2. #2

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    dammit, move this to the mudpit please

  3. #3

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    Don't enlist cause your life isn't worth ending for rich businessmen. They already steal your soul and your money, don't let them take your life.

    We'll ride the spiral to the end and may just go where no one's been.
    "The politics of the Karl Rove era were designed to distract and divide the very people who would ordinarily be rebelling against the deterioration of their way of life. Working Americans have been repeatedly seduced at the polls by emotional issues such as the predictable mantra of “God, guns, gays, abortion, and the flag” while their way if life shifted ineluctably beneath their feet." - Senator Jim Webb

  4. #4

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    Yeah. You will be forced to rape young boys in the military. Sign me up!

    Where do you find this stuff?

    In patronicum sub Tacticalwithdrawal
    United States Marine as of 3/31/2006

  5. #5

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    If you are very unlucky you may be ordered to participate in the raping of young Iraqi boys and preparing kiddie porn videos of the rapes for Bush.
    That's the point at which I stopped reading.

    Moved.

    Patron of Felixion, Ulyaoth, Reidy, Ran Taro and Darth Red
    Co-Founder of the House of Caesars


  6. #6

  7. #7
    John I Tzimisces's Avatar Get born again.
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    What utter ridiculousness. This ranks higher than fahrenheit 9/11 on the BS extreme-liberal propaganda scale there. Its ok to have factual evidence when stating one's case, but this is nothing but BS...

  8. #8
    Major König's Avatar Civitate
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    That is definately true in some cases, but people are not ordered to kill civilians, and definately we are not doing anything bad to iraq, helping at a small rate, but helping the population nonetheless. But I have to say, some of these reasons are good reasons not to join. But that is the point of joining:looking past these reasons and looking forward to serving your country and getting paid with good benefits for it.

  9. #9

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    This is largely ******** , I agree, but the essential concept behind the :wub: is true for all wars.

    (Removed Censor Failure (failure, not bypass) -TBN)
    Last edited by Søren; December 03, 2005 at 10:02 AM.

    We'll ride the spiral to the end and may just go where no one's been.
    "The politics of the Karl Rove era were designed to distract and divide the very people who would ordinarily be rebelling against the deterioration of their way of life. Working Americans have been repeatedly seduced at the polls by emotional issues such as the predictable mantra of “God, guns, gays, abortion, and the flag” while their way if life shifted ineluctably beneath their feet." - Senator Jim Webb

  10. #10

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    but people are not ordered to kill civilians
    you mean the bombers are not ordered to bomb a particular area, they just do it on their own?

  11. #11
    Scar Face's Avatar Indefinitely Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by lee1026
    you mean the bombers are not ordered to bomb a particular area, they just do it on their own?
    Refering to terroists or American Bombers? Terroists are crazy bastards and The bombers TRY to hit strategic locations and not civilians. Not since ww2 have we acctually been ordered to bomb civilians. Some places in a city yes but that's an unfortunate casulty they weren't ordered to kill them directly. Also bombers aren't even there anymore as it's a gurreilia war so..try again?

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scar_Face
    Refering to terroists or American Bombers? Terroists are crazy bastards and The bombers TRY to hit strategic locations and not civilians. Not since ww2 have we acctually been ordered to bomb civilians. Some places in a city yes but that's an unfortunate casulty they weren't ordered to kill them directly. Also bombers aren't even there anymore as it's a gurreilia war so..try again?

    And of course those who lose their familiy to american bombs or other american activity see it like you do. No they won't!

    You didn't see 9/11 as "unfortunate but necessary in the great war" like many of those who were behind it did. You saw the results and hated them for it. Same is true for iraqis. They don't see your rubbish about "yes that's unfortunate but part of war" but corpses of their loved ones.


    You intentions are irrelevant. Your actions and their results are all that matters. As long as USA tries to save it's soldiers at expense of iraqis you will only create more hatred because people will hate you for killing their family. So instead of shooting you should keep sending your US boys and girls take the shots and make sure not a single one of their bullets hits innocent people. But of course that would not go well in US people.


    Everyone is warhero, genius and millionaire in Internet, so don't be surprised that I'm not impressed.

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiwaz
    You intentions are irrelevant. Your actions and their results are all that matters. As long as USA tries to save it's soldiers at expense of iraqis you will only create more hatred because people will hate you for killing their family. So instead of shooting you should keep sending your US boys and girls take the shots and make sure not a single one of their bullets hits innocent people. But of course that would not go well in US people.
    How very noble of you to suggest it knowing full well it wouldnt 'go over well' with any western nation not just the US. So what your suggesting is soldiers should refrain from firing and just 'take it' (enemy fire) out of fear an innocent bystander might get hit? Is that what your saying? And intention is everything, yes it might not be to the people who are dead or to their loved ones but it does indeed matter and if it didnt the US would just simply level everything and just go oops sorry accident! Big difference between hitting someone with a car accidently and hitting someone with a car, stopping and backing up over them just in case you missed.

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by danzig
    How very noble of you to suggest it knowing full well it wouldnt 'go over well' with any western nation not just the US. So what your suggesting is soldiers should refrain from firing and just 'take it' (enemy fire) out of fear an innocent bystander might get hit? Is that what your saying? And intention is everything, yes it might not be to the people who are dead or to their loved ones but it does indeed matter and if it didnt the US would just simply level everything and just go oops sorry accident! Big difference between hitting someone with a car accidently and hitting someone with a car, stopping and backing up over them just in case you missed.
    Intention matters nothing. As for previous comment (above danzig one)... I never claimed US military would try to purposefully kill civilians. However that is irrelevant since they do kill civilians and people do not think "oh well, at least they didn't try to kill my wife/husband/whatever when they killed him/her". Only side to which it makes difference is your side because you try to justify to yourself that you are "good" guys. Which of course is pile of rubbish.

    And yes, I say US soldiers should go foward and take hits (and casualties) until they can with 99% certainty say that they will shoot only resistance members. For two reasons. First, civilians suffering from this illegal occupation did not ask to end up in the war, your soldiers volunteered. And as another reason that way your troops would not cause civilian casualties which cause population to hate you even more and make situation even more futile.

    As for Farnan's comment on other matters. USA has tried war criminals? Who? You mean those few idiots who were low ranking and stupid enough to get caught? And after that they banned cameras so that more evidence would not come out. Right. My guess is that if neutral military court would have chance to examine US actions in this war there would be long line of people going to prison. No military, without exceptions, prosecutes more than those people they absolutely have to for war crimes.


    Everyone is warhero, genius and millionaire in Internet, so don't be surprised that I'm not impressed.

  15. #15

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    they were not ordered to kill civilians, but there are civilians in will they are order to dropped their bombs. And so, they are being ordered to kill civilians, indirectly, yes, but they are still being ordered to kill civilians.

  16. #16

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    But is correct except the kiddie porn for Bush. Which he probably does not mean literally anyway, If you replace "Bush" with "general amusement" it makes more sense. These things have happened.

    Another thing that is far off is the "Bush crime family in control of the heroin market". This is amusing, but you have to ask yourself who IS in control of the poppy fields now. Afghanistan is still a major exporter, right? The US is in control of Afghanistan, right? So what happened to the war on drugs? If it ever existed, it was rescinded for the war on terror, because they are buddy buddy with the people who are growing the stuff, namely the warlords of Afghanistan. And these warlords were the guys who made Afghanistan such a living hell to live in that the population welcomed the Taleban with open arms. At first. Now exactly the same people are back in power there.

    The rest is simply what you arrive at if you drop the notion "America is good by definition."

  17. #17
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    Saying that civilians are ordered to be killed is very stupid in my opinion. As much as I usually disagree with military people, the generals in iraq are "good" people who believe they are doing the right thing, whether that's so or not. They are trying to do a good thing, and whether they are or not, they (with exception to a small minority maybe) would not target civilians or give orders for them to be shot.

  18. #18
    Farnan's Avatar Saviors of the Japanese
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atheist Peace
    Saying that civilians are ordered to be killed is very stupid in my opinion. As much as I usually disagree with military people, the generals in iraq are "good" people who believe they are doing the right thing, whether that's so or not. They are trying to do a good thing, and whether they are or not, they (with exception to a small minority maybe) would not target civilians or give orders for them to be shot.
    Thank you AP for not following Pac and Tiwaz.

    That list is complete bull and is worse than Fahreinheit 911. Nearly all the soldiers, sailors, and airmen in the American Military are men of high moral character who do what what they believe is right. Coalition soldiers are terrible enemies but merciful victors. How many other militaries goes to such a degree to try to prevent civilian causalties and acts with so much restraint? How many militaries actually try their own war criminals?
    “The nation that will insist upon drawing a broad line of demarcation between the fighting man and the thinking man is liable to find its fighting done by fools and its thinking by cowards.”

    —Sir William Francis Butler

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Farnan
    Thank you AP for not following Pac and Tiwaz.

    That list is complete bull and is worse than Fahreinheit 911. Nearly all the soldiers, sailors, and airmen in the American Military are men of high moral character who do what what they believe is right. Coalition soldiers are terrible enemies but merciful victors. How many other militaries goes to such a degree to try to prevent civilian causalties and acts with so much restraint? How many militaries actually try their own war criminals?

    Today? The militaries of pretty much every developed nation.
    High moral character? Well, no more so than the average joe from, again, any other developed nation. Lets not start pretending the average American infantryman is any better a human being than most. It is silly to think otherwise, and quite possibly insulting.

  20. #20
    Farnan's Avatar Saviors of the Japanese
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paranoid Android
    Today? The militaries of pretty much every developed nation.
    High moral character? Well, no more so than the average joe from, again, any other developed nation. Lets not start pretending the average American infantryman is any better a human being than most. It is silly to think otherwise, and quite possibly insulting.
    You mean China who slaughters its own citizens in Tinamen Square? Or how about Russia who is fighting a similiar war in Chechynia* as we are in Iraq, but is far less merciful? Or UN Peacekeeper in Rwanda watching the slaughter but not lifting a finger to help them? I was going to say Western, but this article deals with American soldiers specifically.

    *I do not support Chechian terroists, like I don't support any terroist.
    Last edited by Farnan; December 03, 2005 at 11:01 AM.
    “The nation that will insist upon drawing a broad line of demarcation between the fighting man and the thinking man is liable to find its fighting done by fools and its thinking by cowards.”

    —Sir William Francis Butler

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